Homosexuality cured?

Redarmy, I'm concerned about the species, thats why I can argue any side of this arguement. What difference does it make if children of the future are all one race, or of multiple races, as long as there are children in the future? What difference does it make how the future looks as long as there is a future?

I guess the only thing that matters to me, is that there is a future. Everyone else wants to argue over stupid shit, like if genetic engineering is right or wrong, while the future is being erased, they want to argue about homosexuality. The main issue is really clear, and that is, do we want to go extinct or not?

If you all decide you don't want to go extinct and that you want there to be a future, that is step 1.

After you pass step 1, then we are on the same page, we want a future, so how do we guarentee one?

The only way so far to guarentee one, would be to go along with the current plan that the masses have chosen, and thats only because no one offered an alternative plan. I mean if you think racism is bad, and that there should be no master race, fine, I tend to agree, but if thats not what society is doing or where society is headed, I'm just saying you have to adapt with the flow of society, you won't be able to control the future in such a way, that you can make society EXACTLY how you want it to be. Society is ultimately a concensus, it's what all of us are willing to accept. If you don't like the idea of the master race, then stop believing in the concepts that lead to that future, stop promoting "race" as a concept. If you promote race, you promote a master race.

If you don't support genetic engineering, then you'll have to find other ways to create options on how to make man smarter, or make men work harder, or give people more control over genetics, because people today are battling over genes because they don't control them and want to control them.

Look, if people could select for big breasts, a lot of women would not have breast implants, the fact that breast implants are so popular should show you that if we could genetically select appearance people would do it. I mean, if you say I'm playing devils advocate, give some alternatives that the masses can accept, because if you just say we are going to wake up tomorrow and the hate in the world will be gone, or if you say that aliens will come and solve our problems, or angels, or whatever, no I won't take it seriously.

So if genetically engineering is not going to help humanity, what is? Since you decided to comment, you are given the responsibility to respond with ideas. Bells always talks a lot but never has any ideas, just says everyone elses ideas are wrong, but never has anything new to say.

 

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Parents already choose the genes of their children, and obviously they arent doing a good job, look at the world. The world is like this as a result of choices parents made.

Everyone is religious, even athiests. I'm of the more scientific sort, I tend to agree with whereever science leads, I think science and religion are good, but there are other religions which are completely anti-science and which make absolutely no scientific sense whatsoever, and don't have to. That's the key difference. If you can prove homosexuality is a genetic advantage through studies, I'll take it seriously, I just don't see how it's an advantage scientifically, because too much of it brings a species into extinction, it's going to be very difficult to make the case that it should not be a choice.

Opinion leaders may not neccessarily hold strong opinions. Opinion leaders are people who go on TV, to shape popular opinion. They are representitives of groups of people who are powerful enough to hire opinion leaders.

Tell that to the majority, who believe it is a disease and needs to be cured. I don't know why you want to tell it to me, as if I'm a representitive of the Christian right.

Exactly, it is about religion. Most of these issues are religious in nature.
This is why you cannot really change peoples minds. You can only reduce the suffering for those who are not yet born. You can assume there will be even more religious type people in the future who hate gays than there are today.

Religious extrememism may be a problem, but theres nothing we can do about it. I think when it comes to the church, right now, homosexuality should be kept far away from it. I have nothing against homosexuals, but I think the phrase "gay marriage" just pisses the wrong people off. I think if someone is homosexual, hell, if I were a homosexual, I'd be promoting civil unions, and I'd invent my own church for homosexuals, and have my own religion, and traditions, etc. I think the problem here is that Christianity as a culture and as a relgiion is not designed for tolerance. It's not going to be easy to change this either. It's not that all christians are like this either, it's the hater type christians.

Because we don't know how to do that yet. Also by the time someone is a parent it's a bit too late to cure them, maybe as children.

I say everyone has problems, just different problems. It's not really about which people get cured, it's about the best interest of humanity. Parents are already born, it's not going to be possible to cure those who are born already.

No, I don't think it will become completely normal anymore than I think we will have a homosexual president, or a black president. If Hilary becomes President, then maybe I'll be less cynical, because at least we'd be able to say we had a female President, because if we can't even have a female President, then we have not come very far as a society.

That's exactly my point. People who are not truly religious, sometimes use religion to trick true believers into hating stuff.

Exactly.

The average man is such a hater, that we need hate crime laws, we need to make murder and rape illegal, and we have to pay people with guns to protect us. That's how bad the average man is, the average man is such a vicious animal, that we are constantly afraid of and fighting to contain and control the beast.

How do you think the world would be if we got rid of all laws and all government? Within a matter of days, your door would be broken in, people would be robbing you, stealing your food, women would be raped, people would start killing each other, gangs would form, and then they would start warring with each other over turf, and over little petty things. Over a period of months, the gangs would break down into families, and as people become more and more suspicious of each other, eventually it will be everyone against everyone.

The only reason society does not break down into an all out war of all against all, is because we agree to put the power of military force into the hands of leaders who use that military force to protect us from ourselves.

Because the haters might control the prisons. Maybe the haters are the ones with all the guns. If it ends up like that, you can thank people like bells, who support gun control. I mean if you really want to spend your time tracking down haters and putting them in prison, join the police force.

I think we should make it a choice so it can be dictated by fashion, and the way to do this is to cure it.

You are right, I do distrust mankind, why would anyone trust such a disloyal species as this one? I can trust the average dog more than I can trust the average human. Humans are among the least trustworthy of species. Look at what humans do to each other routinely, there are parents who rape their children, priests who molest, there are wives and husbands who murder each other, there are police officers who sell drugs, and then lock people up for selling drugs. The world is corrupt as hell, it's filled with corrupt people, who don't care about anything besides making a buck. People will do anything for money, people will do anything to get what they want.

Humans, are animals, like all the other animals, I don't hate humans, some humans I like, or love even, and these humans are better than any other animal on earth, but then you have other humans who are worse than dogs, worse than the most vicious of animals.

When you want ot design laws, a society, a space for animals to live in, you cannot design that space, for the best amongst that animal species. You have to design that space to contain and control the worst amongst that animal species.

Look at a prison, yes, some people in prison are good, honest, hard working, you could put them in prison without bars, you could let them work with knives, you could leave the door wide open and they wouldnt try to escape because they feel guiilty for whatever crime they did, you can keep these people in the minimum security prison. However, you still need prison guards, you still need to remove the knives from cells, you still need to control the gangs that form, and deal with these criminals even if they are not violent criminals, because one violent criminal in this environment will quickly rise to leader of the pack, and this could make all the non-violent criminals become violent, or riot even.

So you see, if you want to understand human nature, all you have to do is watch prison documentaries. You can see them on MSNBC just about every weekend or every night even. Society is designed to control the most violent people in our prisons, not people like you and me who won't even think about commiting certain crimes, but to control the people who if there were no laws against it, would be out acting like wild animals.

So in this perspective, society has to be tough enough to deal with the most insane and wild of the human animal. Humans are animals, and have to be controlled just like all the other animals. The government exists to control and manage the human species, and a successful government, protects the best and most successful humans, from the most violent and wild humans.

I care about the species, and I understand we'd go extinct immediately if we had no government to keep us in our place. When I was younger I used to think we could be anarchists, I believed that all people were responsible, and loved one another and all the stuff that people like bells seem to believe, but then I looked outside of myself and saw that the majority of humans are haters, and spend thier time trying to destroy everything. I realize now that the government has the important job of reducing the destructiveness of mankind, for the sake of mankind.

 

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if humans cannot accept homosexuality, why are a portion of the human race homosexual themselves?

 

if humans cannot accept homosexuality, how come a portion of the human race itself homosexual?

 

you need to find faith in the human race, holdin the view that everyone hate somone ant there is nothing we can do about it is very pesamistic. please somone give me the name of the person i am about to quote:
"bad things happen when good men do nothing"

 

i personoly do not think it is abnormal, but do see the argument that homosexual activities are not what our reproductive organs were designed to do, looking at it from a purly scientific point of view. on the other hand, socialy, moraly and religiously it becomes a much more difficult argument to find the cold hard facts.

 

I kind of like the idea of restricting genetic experimentation until humanity is in control of itself.

Still, a gay sheep sounds like an AWESOME pet.

 

I have faith in man's greed and selfishness.

Here is a quote for you from Thomas Hobbes

"In the state of nature profit is the measure of right."
Thomas Hobbes

 

Well, how exactly can humanity gain control of itself with no genetic experimentation?

It seems, our current concepts of genetics arent even scientific, and humans seem to want to mate with the most stupid, yet physically most attractive mates.

 

One of the main reasons for having children is grandchildren. Reproduction is your shot at immortality. In this era when one or two children is the norm, who can afford to invest the time and money in a child that will never reproduce?

I'm not saying I would disown a child who was gay or couldn't reproduce, but if a simple test could prevent it, why not? It's no different from treating midgets with growth hormone which I would also do.

One of my four children has Down's syndrome. I love him as much as any of them and would, no doubt, love any of them that turn out to be gay. But if I could cure my son with a shot I'd do it in a minute with no concern for him losing his identity as a "mongoloid". I view his Down's syndrome as an obstacle he has to overcome, not as what defines him. I see homosexuality in the same way.

I would never force adult homosexuals to undergo treatment they didn't want. But I'd be all for allowing parents to prevent it.

 

I want you to think about something. I'll bet every homosexual went thru a period when they weren't sure of their sexuality. When they tried to be normal. You think they wouldn't prefer to be like everyone else? Give the teenager, who has not yet invested his identity in his sexual orientation the choice and he'd opt to be normal 99% of the time.

If the "cure" were an over the counter pill that could be taken as an adolescent, I'll bet you'd see young homosexuals opting for the treatment in droves.

 

Does being a capitalist mean you give into greed?

Just like greed can be channeled into positive force, so can hate. Homophobia could lead to cures for many other diseases but I guess you don't have a long term view.

It's not really about homosexuals to me. It's about cures.

What if humanity, human nature itself, is the disease?

I did not get a choice to be circumsized or not, or choose my sexual preference. I was born attracted to females.

I think humans need to get control over their sexuality period. We should start with homosexuality to open the door to all the other sexual cures and enhancements.

I never said that.

No, the PARENTS would have the choice. Why shouldnt parents have the option to choose the genes of their children?
After all, who'd have thought the bubble skirt would ever make a comeback, but it's back. So why are you relying on fashion to decide what steps humanity should take in self preservation and self identity?

Race fashion has not changed for thousands of years, and homosexuality has not been in style since greece.

Religion is not genetic. That's like thinking there can be genetic mind control.

No, if your child is going to be abused and the cure is harmful, then you should do everything within your power to protect your child. Sometimes giving a child a different name can prevent the child from being bullied, but if all else fails, then you'll have to teach the child to be aggressive enough to fight bullies. I can't believe you are preaching to me telling me how weak I am when you are afraid of guns.

Evolution is evidence of creationism.

Yes, are aliens real? are angels real? is the material universe real?

Exactly.

How will abortion help anything? it's the same thing. It's about giving more choices to parents.

On some issues, he's right. He's right on guns, and he's right on having no faith in humanity.

It's not just me posting this. ALL of us, millions, plus the majority of the people who actually know how the world works, and the scientists, and those who spend all their lives trying to make the world better all agree that humans are causing their own misery. Thomas Hobbes said these things a long time ago, the founding fathers knew this and thats why they made this country a republic.

Go to a nazi or aryan brotherhood website. Go read about Hitler, he has a book. I mean damn, you havent read his book?

I don't have a version of a master race. I'm just saying, Hitler had a plan, you might not agree with it, but who else had a plan that bold?

What is your race? What is your caste? Which race seems to be the master? That should be proof that people believe in the master race. If race exists at all, some one will try to make their race superior, so the concept of race itself leads to a master race.

Tell me how someone can be for abortion but against genetic engineering when both are reproductive rights issues? Tell me how a person can be for the death penalty yet against abortion?
These people don't make any rational sense.

I'm pro life. Stop stereotyping, I'm not against any of those things like designer babies, it depends on your religion.

Society is not about polls, numbers, or what people say, society is about what people do. People support cloning because they buy cloned food, they fund it, they even support it emotionally by spewing hate, everything humans do, leads to genetic engineering. Just like everything else, it's all cause and effect.

If no group wanted a master race, why do all groups accept race as a concept?

Global warming?

Good genes would mean the intelligence to predict and prevent an astroid from hitting. If we are too busy blowing each other up, we won't notice the astroid.

Not all racists are haters. Some racists love their race and just want to be proud of it, these racists are not bad people. They don't want to harm you or your child, they just don't want to raise their child around your foreign culture. Then you have haters, who don't even love their own race, and do more damage ot the human race than anything good. I think you know the difference between a hater, and someone who is proud of their race. A person who is proud of their race, can be friends with people of other races and respect or even love people of other races, they just want to preserve their cultural and racial identity, and to do this, they will marry within their own race, and want to protect their heritage, language and culture etc. This is not the same as the groups of people who spend their time bullying other races of people, or who think their race is superior, or whatever. So what I'm saying is, not all racists are bad people, and yes it's difficult to believe, but I've personally seen some racists who are good ethical people, who just have strange racial beliefs. So it's not always about hatred, you need to see that.

There are haters who just want to hate, thats not the same as a racial seperatist. Not all racists are murderers, or even capable of murder, and not all of them want exclusion, or division, or interment, or imprisonment. Some racists are racist because they want something to feel proud of, it's about family pride, and I can understand that thinking. Then you have people who feel like their race makes them superior to everyone else, and that they are born to rule over everyone, this is a completely different kind of individual, because domination has nothing to do with pride. If you are truly proud, and truly have a healthy and high self esteem, you don't need to dominate others to prove yourself worth, you'll be able to do it on merits alone, and it will be a battle within yourself, not a situation where you have to blame a scapegoat for your problems.

Every race has it's good and it's bad people, every race has it's problems, but if each race looks outside of itself to blame the "other", they won't solve anything. Just like blaming the white man all the time solves nothing, blaming the black man all the time also solves nothing. If you want to solve something, blame yourself, and start with yourself.

There was no Hitler of China, I don't know why you keep comparing Europe to China, as if there was a man like Hitler in China saying that the Chinese race should dominate the earth. I'm sure there are racists and haters in China, but Hitler was the man with the master plan, not some guy in China. Hitler should recieve ALL credit or that plan because he wrote the book.

Why do people all around the world agree that blondes should be the master race? Because disagreeing will not be an option. If you read Hitlers book, or you read any of the writings of people who believe in these ideas, you'll see that no where in their plans do they plan on giving different races the option to choose a master race. The master race therefore is the race with the most weapons, and it's really been that way all along.

What do you want? what are your ideas? right you have none, all you can do is complain about other peoples ideas, you have no ideas yourself and you just whine and complain.

A lot of people did not and do not agree with Hitler.
The thing about Hitler was, he did not care if you agreed with him or not, he would use force to make you agree with him even if you disagreed. So people had to agree with Hitler.

Do humans want more control and choices? Yes. It's in human nature to want this.

I know you advocate communism, but unless we wake up communist, then there will always be haves and have nots, and we only get to aim for the maximum amount of choices. Libertarians want the maximum amount of economic choices, this allows an intelligent and hard working individual to at least have a chance to make money in the free market. If there are no choices, if theres just one company like Walmart which sells everything to you, and everyone makes minimum wage, thats communism, and you can see it's worse.

I never said that about catholics and most catholics do use condoms, even if the pope might disagree.

Would you rather a class divide, or a race divide? I'd rather have a class divide because a race divide ignores merit, ignores intelligence, ignores hard work, it ignores human potential, it's just, you can't know anything about a person just by race, and you can't change your race. Class however you can move up and down, it might not be likely, but it's possible. There are atheletes and movie stars, and people who do great things in life who started at the bottom of society, so lets give people some credit, in America it is possible to grow a rose from concrete. This is not possible anywhere else. If you want to have the caste system decide, move to India where people who are born poor die poor with no possibility of advancement.

Because people like you don't want any cures at all.

Maybe if we were all as intelligent as Stephen Hawking we could get off the earth and build a colony, maybe we could become more like ants and less like apes.

Do you feel comfortable with people selecting women by their breast size? Or by skin color, or whatever the hell people define as fashionable?

 

Perhaps evolution? If each generation is forced to work hard toward becoming strong intellectually, physically, and psychologically, evolution would take it's place. Genetic engineering is just a way to cheat nature, not that that's bad.

You think counseling would work?

I would advocate genetic engineering, but I've heard it's kind of dangerous right now.

Do you have studies that can prove that?

I don't know much about any studies on homosexuality, but I know that it has nothing to do with extinction. Homosexuality(or more primarily, bisexuality) has existed throughout societies since pre history. As far as it's advantages, I'd assume some psychological attributes come along with sexual orientation(is that true?), similar to gender. If that's true, then some of the worlds greatest people, such as Alexander the Great and DeVinci(who's estimated IQ is 220) must owe some of their greatness to psychology. Even if that's not the case, homosexuals serve a higher purpose, which is promoting cultural diversity. Outside of countries dominated by Abrahamic religions, homosexual experience has become part of many cultures. The Greeks, Romans, the samurai in Japan(through practice of shudo), native americans, and central asians all are documented to practice homosexual acts regularly. Granted that(I think) none of these groups were primarily homosexual, it's still something that has gone towards developing their respective cultures. Anyway, I have to finish some school work...

 

I know you arent naive enough to think this. Do you really believe, that intelligence is more important than say, wealth, or power, or how many weapons you have access to? Evolution of the brain has stopped because huamns like to kill off their smartest and most intelligent, and the gun is one of the inventions that made it possible. Before the gun was invented, it was an art to master the sword, then the gun came along and any thug could take out a genius at the push of a button, and with each generation it becomes more and more true.

We are not evolving mentally, we are evolving physically, our bodies change, our appearances change, but our brains have not changed much.

Why do you worry about how dangerous it would be? The world is dangerous, we live in a world with biological weapons, plagues, nano weapons, viruses, nuclear weapons, etc and you worry about genetic engineering? The only way humans will survive is through genetically engineered immunity.

We are evolving too slowly to survive, and the proof will be our extinction.

I'm not talking about bisexuality, I'm talking about homosexuality. Homosexuals cannot have sex and reproduce, and of course if we all were homosexuals we'd go extinct, unless of course we genetically engineer ourselves out of it.

IQ is just a number to me, although I do believe Da Vinci was a genius, there were and are many other geniuses around in every generation from every part of the world. I do like diversity, but lets be honest, most of the world does not give a damn about cultural diversity, and hates other cultures, and other people different from them, so you have to accept that the world is culturally ignorant.

I did not say homosexuals were bad, or did not contribute. I'm saying what is the function of homosexuals for a species? What can homosexuals do, better than say, straight people, and why does society need homosexuals?

Just saying cultural diversity, thats the same thing people say about race, people say we need all this multi-culturalism, but at the same time these same people don't live next to any minorities, or any homosexuals, and in some cases don't know anyone like this, or have any friends like this, and never dated or loved anyone like this, so it's just empty words.

If a person is going to preach cultural diversity, they should have some personal experience with it. So you can tell me, your experiences with your gay friend, and then you can explain in detail why homosexuality is good culturally, from the straight point of view.

You cannot however, just make empty statements based on historical experiences that you personally did not have, and you cannot claim homosexuality is important unless you have important friends who are homosexual. So the test is, how many homosexual friends do you have and what do they tell you?

Some of the people I know who are homosexual, are in the mindset that they want to be normal, and wish they werent homosexuals, and are ashamed of it. I don't know if this is the average mindset, but it seems people who are homosexual get punished for being that way by their families and friends. I'm one of the people who do not judge others by their sex lives, in fact,I I don't care what they do with other adults in the bedroom, but some people do get judged just by being homosexual, and they do get discriminated against, and you might not want to admit to this or agree with it, but the world discriminates against homosexuals to the point where they are not allowed to adopt children, are not allowed to marry, and there are constant jokes against them, and taunting, and bullying, all their lives.

Why do you want people to go through that?

 

You are caught up in the belief that everyone who has an avoidence of being penetrated by another male is a hater, why cant you see that this avoidence is just as natural as homosexuality itself.

You have been presented with the major reason several times i.e. it should be up to the individual whether they want their sexualality adjusted from a mental perspective as opposed to physically(as is done now in the case of sex change operations).

 

OK I see what you mean, but I would bet that most gays would have thanked their parents for preventing them growing up so confused and different. Yes being a homosexual is part of who they are, but thats only because they have gone through so much because of it.