Homosexuality & Anterior hypothalamus

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by ArtofWar, Dec 20, 2005.

  1. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Chromosomes by themselves don't make us male or female. They are the deciding factor.


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  3. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    It is our outer sexual organ (penis/ testicles) that makes us a male. But it is our inner-sex (male) that makes us a 'man', as far as nature is concerned --- to be more precise a masculine man, as opposite a feminine man.

    Now my point is that male is by itself not a complete basic biological or social identity, because it only refers to the outer-sex and leaves out a very important part of our biological sex --- our inner sex, or gender.

    To people their inner-sex is much more important than their outer sex. This is apparent in the extreme cases where the outer sex and inner sex don't match at all. Then males see their outer sex a problem, not their inner sex. They are what their inner sex is, not what their outer sex is.

    In case of masculine men, it becomes very important for them to be recognised for their natural gender (masculine) --- something that the society manipulates to get the desired (sexual) behaviour from men, by artificially defining what is masculine and what feminine (something I call social masculinity).


    Therefore, men are actually divided into 'masculine gendered' men and 'feminine' gendered males. Meterosexual men may be either classed with masculine gendered men or with the feminine gendered men or may even be seen as a separate category depending upon the social mores of a society.

    Masculine gendered men and feminine gendered males are two different gender/ sex identities, and they are not 'same'. Any relationship between the members of the two group cannot be considered to be the 'same'. Therefore in most traditional societies sex between men and transvestites etc. was considered equivalent to sex with women (heterosexual).

    Therefore the whole concept of 'same-sex' is flawed, if it ignores the gender of people and consider people of two genders as the 'same'.

    Am I making myself clear?
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2005
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  5. leopold Valued Senior Member

    science is the same eveywhere there is no such thing as "Western science"

    what do you mean "sense of being"

    gender means male or female, has nothing to do with "inside"

    sexual orientation is homosexual or heterosexual

    your last statement provides insight. from it i can tell you have issues about american liberties. in america if you are gay you are not persecuted for it. as a matter of fact most of the people on this board will say they have some kind of problem with them but also believe they are human and have rights.

    define "invadeing our media spce"
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  7. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    That was too quick a response for something that needs a lot of reflection.

    Unless you consider what I'm saying you cannot reject them. The idea is not to 'disprove' the other for the sake of it. The idea should be to learn new things --- from the experiences of others.

    You're too quick to dismiss everything. Read what I've said carefully and analyse it.
  8. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Science has been 'invented' by the west. Whatever we know of science or its procedures or fundamentals, has been given to us by the west --- for good or bad.
    To understand this you have to look at the extreme case where the outer sex and inner sex are totally different --- as in the case of a transexual. He is a person whose outer sex is 'male' but inner-sex is 'female'. A transvestite on the other hand is a male (outer sex) whose inner sex is predominantly though not entirely 'female'
    male or female refers to sex of a person. That is basic English.
    The entire concept of sexual orientation is an artificial creation of the modern west.
    When you stop viewing this world as divided between homosexual and heterosexual we can have a discussion. If you don't want to get out of your 'well', we will just get no where.
    Our government (due to pressure from the west) was forced to allow the western media into our country --- and it has bought our media with its wealth and technology and has been forcing 'heterosexualisation' down our throats --- and entire anti-male ideology that goes with it.
  9. leopold Valued Senior Member

    inner-sex? what do you mean by this. i have love in my heart, i don't mind hugging people, i tell almost everyone i know "i love you", so with that in mind does that make me female?

    you are correct male is incomplete without female

    buddha lets define a few things gender means biological male or female,intercourse means "insert penis into vagina"

    society has not manipulated me, my upbringing formed who and what i am

    homosexual means same sex buddha, to say there is no such thing as gay is ridiculous
  10. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Like I said, there is no use of a discussion, if you're not willing to consider new information with an open mind, but if you are part of the vested interest group, it is futile to expect you to have an open mind.

    I made no such comments. I'll make a correction in the above: "Hermaphrodite is incomplete without female" --- (also reflected in the Greek mythology!). A man is complete in himself.

    If you think we will only go by the western definition of things (it's called circular reasoning, like Christians continue to base their arguments on bible and how it defines things), then you can continue to live in your ignorance --- which may be bliss for you! For more information look at various definitions of gender on the net.

    But your western definitions do not stand questioning. If you can defend them against the points I have raised, I may then take those definitions to be true, and those that I have learnt from my own society as false.
    And who is talking about intercourse here. Intercourse can also be anal or oral.

    We have already discussed the problem with the word 'same-sex'. If you'd just care to read beyond a glance.

    Then the entire human civilisation except the modern day west is ridiculous for no one believed there is any such thing as a 'gay'.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2005
  11. leopold Valued Senior Member

    so we are talking about no sex?

    when 2 humans have sex it is either a. homosexual or b. heterosexual there are no other possibility

    how would you describe a eastern scientist?

    can you give me some links so i can better cope with this
    i believe this is more a cultural problem than any thing else
  12. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    O.K., let's assume (only temporarily for discussion's sake) that gender means outer sex only, i.e. penis = male, then you will agree that 'masculinity' or 'femininity' has no role to play in determining socio-sexual identities.

    Yes or no?
  13. leopold Valued Senior Member

    why not? you expect me to go by eastern kind of things
  14. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Clinically speaking let's say we can condone dividing sex into homosexual and heterosexual sex(but even then the problem of what is same-sex and what is opposite-sex will remain!).

    But this is still no justification at all for dividing people into 'homosexual' or 'heterosexual'.

    For then everyone is capable of doing both homosexual and heterosexual sex (except a very very small minority on both the sides!).

    Science is omnipresent today. But there is no denying the fact that it has originated in the west not too long ago (a few centuries). An eastern scientist is one who carries on the institution of science in the east.

    We have had a big discussion of it. It is continuing. I don't know what kind of links you need. If I can think of something I'll provide.
  15. leopold Valued Senior Member

    i have determined this is out of my league
    you are totally agaisnt "the west" therefor in your on words "biased"
    science is science. there is no west,east,north,or south
    what you refer to is cultural and in my opinion . . well buddha i concede
  16. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    East is not without their fault. In terms of human sexuality --- no society is free from manipulation.

    It is the western standards that are being imposed on everyone today, and hence we are challenging them here.

    If East is 60% away from nature, west is 97%, and that is where east is more reliable in this case. Also traditional west and today's east are more or less the same. It's the modern west that is different.

    We are only saying that we cannot go by the western definitions. We are not saying that we will go by eastern ones. We need to go by what is given by nature. We use eastern culture only to show that what the west thinks is not necessarily the 'universal' or even biological truth.

    When a difference arises, we should use it to examine our 'standards' more closely.
  17. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Another one bites the dust!

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  18. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Anyone who can answer this question?

    Is the gender (masculine or feminine) of a person unimportant in deciding his social identity, and only the (so-called) 'sexual orientation' is a valid identity?
  19. leopold Valued Senior Member

    it seems you are asking about the role of women or womens rights
    in the west we consider a man and male sexuality the same. when you say man it also means penis,testicles, the outward appearence. the inside is different for each individual. is this more phsycology than something else

    i believe that the concepts you are expressing are the same as the "wests"
    the only reason we can not reach a concenses is the terminology

    what does it mean for a man to feel feminine? have love in their heart?

    and you never answered the question
    how is the west invading your media space?

    have you heard of compromise? if the west and east ever do agree there must be compromise. some will call it "kissing ass"
  20. Happeh Registered Senior Member

    I actually understood that. What is your point? Some men are masculine or heterosexual. Some men are turned to women on the inside and they get on their knees.

    Why is that a reason for pages of posts?
  21. Happeh Registered Senior Member

    See Leopoldo? This is how I was going to own you when you were shouting "Racist". The world has always been divided into east and west since American history got started. Has nothing to do with racism.
  22. leopold Valued Senior Member

    now that you put it that way i too understand, i think
    in other words a man that is female on the inside is a coward?
  23. leopold Valued Senior Member

    own me?
    believe it or not america is the land of people. all people
    science was not invented. it is a way of explaining our reality
    the biggest difference in our cultures is religion
    americans feel religion personal, no matter what god it is you have a right to pray to it. on the other hand you have no right whatsoever of imposing your religion or your god on anybody else

    i also disagree that "eastern" science is different than "western" science
    what are you saying, water doesn't flow downhill over there?

    it might not be racism but i do detect animosity.

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