Home made energy converter.

Discussion in 'Architecture & Engineering' started by DaS Energy, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    And I see you ignored the question.

    Typical. Just what I expected from you - nothing.
     
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  3. Pantaz Registered Member

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    31
    I'm curious if anyone here has actually worked with these ultra-high pressures? I imagine the safety requirements must be extreme.
     
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  5. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    6,152
    I'm thinking shrapnel. Imagine trying to get a permit to install 6800 bar vessels in a residential setting, or who would insure it.
     
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  7. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Pantaz,

    In comparative to water pressure received at home the pressure of 6,800 bar is quite large however for those in exploration the pressure is at the higher end of low range. Line pipe supplies all material needs. Full construction is completed by cut and weld. A welding person with the skills needed for line pipe welding is a must. Model made using such method failed on the collapse of shaft seals. Earlier model using Steam pipe for construction and staying below 64 bar pressure had greater sucess.

    Cheers Peter
     
  8. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Read-Only,

    It may be of assistance if you asked a Kindergarten teacher to explain the difference between a statement and a question.

    Cheers Peter
     
  9. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    Stop trying to be cute, it doesn't fit you nor help you at all.

    There were two simple questions - why are you dodging them, eh? Too embarrassed to admit that the machine exist only in your feeble imagination???
     
  10. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

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    223
    Hello Read-Only,

    Are the people you reffer to those fools who beleive the earth is round. Man can fly. Man can float in space. Man can walk on the moon. Man can drive a veheicle across mars, or some other form of highly uneducated and/or ignorant people.

    Cheers Peter
     
  11. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Read-Only,

    I take it then no kindergarden teacher has time for you. Must be hard to strive so hard to be a somebody without the knowledge base to back it up.

    Cheers Peter
     
  12. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Aqueous ID,

    To place a one litre vessel of 6,800 bar pressure in a suburban enviroment may be first, and it possible insurance not go near.

    In light of this one might wish to lower the pressure and increase the volume per second to obtain the same or greater wattage output.

    Lowering of pressure decreases the heat differential, however more Joules are required to heat the larger volume, so there be gains and losses.

    Cheers Peter
     
  13. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    What the heck are you talking about?????????????

    The two simple questions I asked you are these: How many of your silly machines have you sold? And to whom? Will you answer or just pretend once again that I haven't asked?

    (And you get NO "Cheers" from me for your worthless nonsense!)
     
  14. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Aqueous ID,

    It takes for more than 2 bar pressure to tear through a leather seal that bridges a micron gap between two peices of metal. However when it does so "open technology" is one way to express the events following.

    Cheers Peter
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  15. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Read-Only,

    A quick check and yes you did ask two question - Who we sold to and at what price. You did not make two statement.

    We passed the hat round but it was decided you be too incompentant to have any concern to our business welfare.

    Cheers Peter
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  16. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    What a foolish person! Also, I *NEVER* asked anything about price.

    My point and reason for asking those questions was to show that you have NO technology that anyone would be interested in. Thank you for confirming it. You may leave us now.
     
  17. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,152
    I can barely understand your English. Are you a native speaker?

    I don't think you can start with the premise that a hazardous pressure vessel can be made safe by reducing the pressure. You have to design for safety. You have to look at current safety regulations and find out what your boundaries are. You went into this with the assumption that there is no ceiling on pressure. That's nuts.

    That makes no sense. In the first place, I see no design. I see no power source. I'm guessing that this is an attempt to use supercritical CO[sub]2[/sub] in a geothermal well. I'm just not sure if that was your purpose. If it was, then you should do a tradeoff analysis. As I recall, the US Dept of Energy has stuff like this already worked out that folks can draw from. There ought to be plenty of sources to rely on. But above all you want to learn how to do basic calculations yourself. If I were you I would start with a plain geothermal system using water or antifreeze at STP and go from there. Without any system design or physical laws or rules to start from, you're lost. You have to start out small, and build around it. Keep it simple. Yes, supercritical CO[sub]2[/sub] has good heat exchange efficiency, but you're not going to be able to take advantage of it at dangerously high pressures. Not in a residential application. Besides, if all it does is reduce the heat exchanger surface area by 50%, then why bother? That's the what tradeoff analysis means. Opinions are useless. What do the numbers say?

    That makes no sense. You should start out by stating what pressure differential you are talking about. For a geothermal application, if that's your thrust, you need to start with the temperature differential between hot and cold sources. That, times the number of moles of working fluid, times a constant (the universal gas constant in the ideal gas law) gives you your ideal energy potential. Heat transfer efficiency will come into play when you consider how fast the fluid is moving. Obviously, at low velocity, the rate becomes moot. That's why it makes no sense to jump in from the requirement that high thermal transfer efficiency makes or breaks the design. There is no design, not yet. You haven't yet described a system.
     
  18. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

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    223
    Hello Aqeuous ID,

    Could not agree with you more.

    You have spotted that when a gas is at a higher pressure than its lower pressure, the pressure in the middle is known as the drive force.

    Drive force includes the volume per second and the pressure its at, this applies to all be it piston or turbine.

    Energy output (wattage) increases when the drive force is increased or the volume accompaning that drive force be increased.

    Cheers Peter
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,725
    Sure could. They already sell these things:

    http://www.greensteamengine.com/products.htm

    It's not exactly the same, of course; the product in the link above works.
     
  20. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

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    223
    Hello Read-Only,

    Wow that twice youve been right, you didnt ask for the price you asked for their name!

    I know your reason for asking, having failed all through you changed tack, amazingly similiar to that a seven year old does.

    Cheers Peter
     
  21. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Bilvon,

    The Steam engine in your post is a good example of the old ways that still work. The main problem with such technology is that they require 100*C of heat just to get the water boiling and thats before any Steam effort starts.

    The same design characteristics as pictured may be employed using oxygen, nitrogen or heluim all of which has have higher pressure at lower temperature than Carbon Dioxide or Steam.

    Unfortunately the energy losses to piston and crankshaft activation can only be releived by a turbine.

    http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums...de_pressure-temperature_phase_diagram_svg.png

    A minimum of 9 bar pressure is needed.

    The solid is Dry-Ice a boon to cooling.

    Cheers Peter
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  22. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello AqueousID,

    Very old dialect, last of mohekins. Few words lots of depth.

    Persons in the pressure container feild appear to know their business so safety of container not an issue.

    Heat sourcing may be by Geothermal well. American State Department, American NASA and DaS Energy well acquainted each others work.

    Calculations posted high temperature 100*C and low temperature 50*C observed against phase graph CO2.

    The idea behind the picture posted was to show one design of many.

    Operating between 50*C and !00*C whilst lower cooling service area has a greater purpose of peak efficiency in pressure differential to heat sourcing.

    Its common amongst engineers to speak of pressure differential as that imeadiately supplies the forces of energy available for conversion.

    In the post you note the temperature figures of 50* and 100*C these can be applied a geothermal heat source.

    Energy potential is known and posted its 6,800 bar pressure gas, and water.

    Fluid flow has been considered and posted, one litre per second.

    Joules of heat to volume flow is known and posted, a temperature rise of 10*C in one second.

    Common industrial boiler has much lower pressure but such higher volume than one litre the damage from its boom far greater. The idea it cannot be rendered safe in urban enviroment completely unfounded.

    That you be unable to discern from a drawing to the mechanics it shows a design and the words attach with it describe a system, I cannot assist further with.

    Without all those things you describe as needed does raise question to John Howard 2006 mapping the entire Australian Nation under 100* Celsius Urban Geothermal.

    Why did American NASA and DaS Energy go to print in 2002.

    Cheers Peter
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  23. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012

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