Home made energy converter.

Discussion in 'Architecture & Engineering' started by DaS Energy, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    There is nothing more solid then water. Its incompressible. It may push something or pull or in fact do both.

    A gas force at one end of a water filled pipe will empty that pipe of water. Having that water drive a hydro turbine creates an energy conversion.

    Having the water flow pool in collector possitioned above the place of gas force inlet means the same water will drain down if the gas force is removed.

    All water drainage creates a vacuum pulling on that behind the water.

    To obtain turbine motion at least cost its best to choose a liquid that turns to gas at very low heat or allready is a gas.

    The gas itself is best if highly expanding at very low heat. Carbon Dioxide is one gas ideal in such purpose. Further benefit is obtained if the gas is very easy to cool. Carbon Dioxide is more than ideal, rather than cooling it one has to stop it from freezing.

    Contrast of work ethic between commonly used Steam, and slowly getting a foothold Carbon Dioxide. Example the making of electricity. 175 bar (attmosphere) of force creates 350 megawatts of electricity.

    All turbine are driven by force be it liquid or gas. Steam is liquid at 100* Celsius. Carbon Dioxide is liquid at 32* Celsius.

    Water at 550* Celsius produces 175 bar Steam force. Carbon Dioxide at 100* Celsius produces 7,000 bar of force.

    Kilowat and Horsepower are a calculation of force multiplied by volume per second. IE, One litre water at 9 bar pressure passing through the turbine each second produces 720 watts. This increases by force, or volume per second.

    Line pipe construction forms all casing if heating be above plus 2 degree Celsius and Carbon Dioxide the heat reactant.

    Force to temperature Phase Graph begins CO2 Critical that under 32* Celsius and CO2 Super Critical that over 32* Celsius.

    So long the hot zone remain higher temperature than the cold zone a liquid current occurs at force.

    Copper pipe and car water pump complete a Steam version and a low heat CO2 version.

    Both Tennis and Squash ball make excellent trip valve sitting attop the liquid ladder.

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  3. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

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    2,862
    Wouldn't a solar panal array be easier and better to use? Since the more panals you add to the array the more clean power you'd get back with no moving parts and will last a lifetime. Wind turbines would also be better to use for they are cheaper and can be used night and day. Combining the two systems would give you better results for energy for your home I would think rather than what you are proposing with this design.
     
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  5. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    10,296
    That's correct.

    But also remember this is the same crank that thinks he can extract TONS of electrical energy from the heat in ambient air. He proposed doing it by using a low boiling point material, CO2, running it through a turbine and magically creating a cold heatsink to condense it back to a liquid. Several people people here, including myself, shot down his nonsense with no effort at all.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,759
    You need pressure differential AND mass flow to determine the power that can be extracted.

    ?? Water can produce any pressure you want it to. 7000 bar from water is easy. It just takes energy input.

    Yes, many processes can extract power from a temperature differential. The amount of energy developed is proportional to the differential (assuming a perfect heat sink on both sides, which is never actually the case.)
     
  8. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Buddha12,

    Unfortunately I cannot answer your question. I do not have the figures for size to wattage of Solar Panel or Wind Turbine. However wind and heat exist both night and day. Both wind turbine and hydro turbine (posted) need a force to rotate. One obtaining such by air movement the other by absorbing heat. The system was developed around room temperature of 20* Celsius though remains functional at lower heat to a minium of minus 10* Celsius. However as the heat comes down the unit needs to increase in volume or rotate at a faster speed to manetane the same wattage output. Unit longevity is based on its moving parts of turbine runner and flow valves which are a rubber ball sitting over a hole. The generator attached to both hydro and wind turbine are more prone to wear. Cost of construction to that posted is far cheaper than wind turbine as no external blading needed. Both wind, solar,gas/ hydro require casing. Wind turbine manufacturers are somewhat reluctant to show their costs of construction which include a tower. It would be nice to have those figures so a final comparison could be had. Until then it all remains conjecture.

    Cheers Peter
     
  9. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello billvon.

    I agree a pressure differential is required. Mass is volume which added to with force calulates the power that can be extracted.

    Kilowatt/Horsepower using a 82% efficient turbine is one litre per second at nine bar pressure produces 720 watts.

    I agree water can be heated to 7,000 bar pressure. The energy (heat) input to acheive that is not publicly available, though it be public available that water heated to 550* Celsius has a pressure force of 175 bar.

    Carbon Dioxide at 100* Celsius has a pressure force of 7,000 bar and at 32* Celius it has a pressure force of 64 bar. A 6,946 bar pressure differential.

    I agree power is extracted from the differential between hold and cold. I too await the perfect heat sink on both sides. However till then that in use today suffices.

    Cheers Peter
     
  10. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Read Only,

    The magic heat sink (the expansion chamber) you and others are supposed to have shot down as nonsense. Sent a huge laugh through refrigeration manufacturers. Though we all feel sorry that some clown stole the one out of the back of your fridge and the beer no longer gets cold.

    Cheers Peter
     
  11. Steve100 O͓͍̯̬̯̙͈̟̥̳̩͒̆̿ͬ̑̀̓̿͋ͬ ̙̳ͅ ̫̪̳͔O Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,346
    You can buy energy free fridges now?
     
  12. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Steve100,

    I honestly dont have an answer to your question. All fridges as I know them require some form of energy be it heat or other. Ambient heat however comes free. In a Refrigeration forum there is model but as yet nothing for sale that I know of. Carbon Dioxide expands far greater than Ammonia (Einstein fridge) at the same heat. It also has far greater refigerant propperties than Ammonia.

    Cheers Peter
     
  13. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,152
    Before you can address the application of energy to work, you need to understand useful energy, and basic principles of science. Examples of useful energy:

    (1) The difference in potential between the positive and negative terminals of a battery. Voltage is referenced to battery ground. The useful amount is the amount that will flow in a circuit from high to low potential. The difference in potential energy (voltage) accounts for the energy transfer. Notice that placing power supplies in parallel does not increase the energy transferred*. However, placing them in series does. This is because energy transfer depends on the difference between the system ground potential and the amount of energy in the energy source above the ground potential. The absolute voltage of the electrode does not account for the energy transfer. A 20,000 volt DC power line will not transfer any energy to another wire if it is also at 20,000 volts. However, if that wire is connected to the ground, it will explode from the huge amount of energy transferred by the difference in potential of the two ends of the wire.

    * over a given time interval, under nominal loading

    (2) The difference in falling from a chair or from an airplane (height) is referenced to the ground. Falling from a cliff is more energetic than falling from a chair the ground, because the reference (bottom of a cliff) is lower. Thus the difference in potential determines the amount of energy transfer. The absolute gravitational potential does not account for the energy transfer. Your absolute height does not account for the energy transferred when you fall. It's the distance to the ground.

    (3) Driving into a parked car at 100 km/hr transfers more energy than bumping a car in front of you that slows to 99 km/hr because the difference in kinetic energy is greater. The absolute energy of your car does not account for the energy transfer. It's the difference in velocity between you and the other car. Note, the other car colliding with you in reverse at 100 km/hr while you are moving forward at 100 km/hr has the same consequences of colliding with a parked car at 200 km/hr. Again, it's energy difference that accounts for energy transferred.

    (4) The atmospheric pressure does not cause a car's engine pistons to move. However, exploding gasoline in the cylinders creates a pressure difference that applies a force to the pistons. The amount of pressure difference accounts for the energy transfer. If you pressurize the output manifold, the difference drops. Note, by exploding gas on both sides of a cylinder it will not move at all.

    (5) The application to hydraulics is the same. You can not turn a turbine by a pressurized water source if the outlet pressure is the same as inlet. The amount of pressure difference accounts for the amount of energy transferred.

    (6) Heat can do no work unless there is a high and low side of the machine through which heat is exchanged. The difference in heat from high to low temperature accounts for the amount of work done. Thus, it takes less energy to change one gram of water by one degree than to change it by 100 degrees.

    (7) In chemical reactions, the amount of energy absorbed or released is the difference in potential between two reactants. Thus, the fizz of vinegar and baking soda (CO[sub]2[/sub], your favorite material) transfers much less energy than the explosion of TNT in air. The difference in total bond energies of the reactants before and after reaction accounts for the amount of energy transferred.

    Ambient heat is not useful unless you have a heat source (like the fuel in your car) or a cold source (like a chunk of ice) to the work. The difference in ambient and the heat of your source accounts for the amount of energy transferred (moving you in a car, or chilling your beer in an ice box). It is therefore not free to use. Ambient heat is no more useful than a one-electrode battery, or the hammer resting on the nail, or the chemicals having same bond potentials, or the equal pressures on two sides of a battery. In each case there is an energy state of the system. It's simply not usable without a difference, that is, you need to two free sources to get the free potential difference that will get the work done for free.

    Not one, but two free sources are required, in order to harness a free difference in potential energies. A good example of free potential thermal differences are geothermal wells. The difference between temperature above and below ground accounts for the amount of energy transferred.

    False. At the threshold of its change of state, ammonia will expand more than CO[sub]2[/sub]. You are confusing heat and temperature, among other things.

    Not true. Common refrigerants are most useful when they undergo phase change at temperatures near the operating point of the refrigerator, subject to pressures that are not expensive or mechanically difficult to produce in a practical real world machine. Pressurizing CO[sub]2[/sub] is expensive in comparison to ammonia. Note, ammonia refrigeration can be done by pressurizing the liquid with a pump rather than the gas with a compressor. Liquid pumps are inherently more efficient than gas compressors. This is one reason why ammonia refrigeration is so common and CO[sub]2[/sub] refrigeration is so rare. Ammonia freely enters into the liquid state (aqueous, that is) by its hygroscopic absorption in water. (Now that's a freebie you can take to the bank.)
     
  14. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Aqueous Id,

    Problem is some people have the intellegence to look at a book before replying. You may have mxed up here with facebook, thats the place for bullshit artists.

    Cheers Peter
     
  15. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    I've done a considerable amount of refrigeration work, primarily on air conditioners and heat pumps - and am fully aware of finned radiators, silly man. I'm talking about your STUPID idea of trying to capture energy from the heat in AMBIENT AIR. You went in great detail about it in another thread and it was YOUR idea/concept of thermodynamics that was completely STUPID and laughable!

    You should cease your nonsense of trying to "teach" something to people that already know FAR, FAR more than you do.
     
  16. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Steve100,

    Interesting question I gave further thought to. See Web Site R744, they commenced after NASA and DaS Energy first published 2002.

    It be there or other refirgeration having. Accepted would work on any refrigerant. Only heat difference occur. Gas fridge manufacture "Einstein" may have solar focus. Nest best is seperate unit solar focus. Moten salt. Aluminum wool in bitumen bath.

    Cheers Peter
     
  17. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Read only.

    See no mention of an expansion chamber!. No fins! EXPANSION such like refrigeration engineers learn, now theres a hint..

    Cheers Peter
     
  18. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    I wasn't about to describe the entire machine! Sorry, Bub, but you are NOTHING but an under-educated fraud. Your ideas are nonsense, nothing more. And I'm finished wasting my time, energy and actual knowledge on an ignorant individual like you! I do hope you will become smarter with time but doubt that will happen.
     
  19. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Read-Only,

    Good luck getting that beer cold!

    Cheers Peter
     
  20. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    And you are still nothing but a clueless FRAUD! You posted a LOT of junk here and managed to squeeze in just a tiny bit of accurate facts. But the biggest problem is that the little bit of info that was actually correct is taught to schoolchildren today before they ever reach college age. So for all your efforts, you've managed to educate precisely NO one. <shrug>
     
  21. DaS Energy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Hello Read-Only,

    Must be hard being the font of all information, especialy without the balls to put their name.

    Cheers Peter
     
  22. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    What the heck are you talking about?? As I said, most of the REAL information you've posted is common knowledge today and what is this goofy business about "their name?" Much of what you post makes no sense at all - who is "their" for instance?
     
  23. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,028
    The "font" of all information? For you, it should be "Comic Sans" or "Wingdings".

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    I believe the word your looking for is "fount"....as in "your theories are a fount of bullshit woo"

    l'chaim

    Mitch
     

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