Holocaust ... and other forms of Denial

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Michael, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Nope. Do try to pay better attention than that.
    Like I keep telling you - there is no Party line involved here. The common reality is not a Party line.
    No, it doesn't. It tells you nothing of the kind. And that is completely obvious.
    What tells you the importance of the human contribution is the research and analysis and so forth into the recent CO2 boost and its likely effects.
     
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  3. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Time to review (again):
    iceaura's claim is that 'White Racism' is 'affecting' Black People in the USA.

    We ALL AGREE that SOME white and black people are racist (see: iceaura for example) and that viewing the world through a race-lens may, in fact, affect SOME white and black people. Both positively (in the case of giving certain 'races' of Americans a race-based advantage by lowering the SAT score needed to attend University, while raising it for yellow people) as well as negatively, including not hiring someone because of their skin color - which happened quite often after racist democrats imposed 'minimum wage restrictions', which were enforced against blacks, creating the socialist government welfare ghettos of today.

    Okay, good. We got that far.

    Now, of course, iceaura goes beyond 'some' and starts making unfounded generalized claims about all white people and all black people - as groups. This is a different TYPE of argument. The first can be made through a deductive categorical syllogism. The later requires induction and analysis. This means *GASP* empiricism and *GASP* good repeatable controlled evidence.

    Oh, and the best we can do is cogent strong. That's the best we can hope for.

    One of these claims is in regards socioeconomic status. Here he claims that 'white racism' is affecting the socioeconomic status of all black people. However, he never provides any good evidence of this. He also doesn't control for IQ (nor black racism).

    The empirical evidence/data show quite clearly, that once IQ is controlled for (as an example), that what really determines one's socioeconomic status is your IQ, not your 'race'. The effect is exacerbated and reinforced in our massive progressive government-school driven game of regulatory capture. Which greatly benefits high IQ people/rent-seekers, and is evidenced by high-IQ white Jews and high IQ yellow people being at the top of the socioeconomic pyramid.

    Of course, being your typical progressive, iceaura doubles-down on race theory (look up Progressives and Eugenics, they have a sordid history, to say the least) and now makes a totally unfounded claim that 'white racism' is affected the IQ of black people in the USA.

    That is insane. There's no good evidence that his is happening. NONE.

    So, of course, he provides zero good evidence and ignores all data that show the contrary, that IQ is mostly biological, and is nearly impermeable to slight changes in environment, even parenting styles unaffect it (let alone magical 'white racism'). Not to mention, he ignores the contra-evidence that 'white racism' has had no effect on the IQ of white Jews (112) or yellow people (107) - both higher than white people (and yellow people make 20K more a year and dominate IQ, engineering, academics, and etc...). Millions of Jews were murdered just this last century (we don't need to go back TWO centuries, and yellow people were nuked!). Not only this, iceaura has no idea what the average IQ of black Americans is even supposed to be - it may be higher than it is, it may be lower than it is. Or it may be exactly what it is supposed to be.


    Essentially, iceaura is a dying breed of progressive socialists' who'd policies for the last 100 years have pretty much destroyed western society. Culminating in trillions and trillions of dollars wasted on their idiotic social programs that have had no effect - other than to make low-IQ people, of any color/race, poorer now than before they started (relatively speaking). Well, they'll not stop here. They will never stop, until they have Dear Leader in office ushering in our very own Venezuelan Utopia. Complete with a side of Swedish socialistic rapy-meatballs.

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    Authoritarian Statism IS their religion.

    No amount of peer-reviewed evidence will convince them - just like AGW and cigarette-causes-cancer. Progressive Socialists are Science Deniers, they'll always demand just that last study - you know, like controlling for the female womb. Maybe the 'womb' is racist

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    All while undermining the social foundation/culture (in our case, English and European) with their own unevidenced social-justice magical unicorn barf.



    Summary: ALL the good evidence shows IQ is mostly biological (up to 85%) and that it correlates strongly with socioeconomic status - further, it's nearly immutable to the environment, even in lead-polluted China, nuclear fallout Hiroshima or even parenting styles. Science shows that IQ is mostly genetic. Thus, the solution is to give equal oppertunity to all people through free-markets (free-people); sound money; and common law that protects their property.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
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  5. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    LOL

    Argumentum ad populum
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No, it isn't.

    That's taken for granted.

    My claim is that you are denying that, absurdly.

    The manner in which you attempt to defend that ridiculous denial, the arguments and so forth, are the interesting feature of your posting in this thread.

    For example, instead of dealing with my actual posting you - and other absurd denial defenders - post lots of stuff like this:
    Now unless something has slipped my mind over the years, I have never made a single claim about "all white people" on this forum - let alone in this thread, where that would probably be irrelevant (nobody is talking about the racial distribution of absurd denial, or about any particular absurd denial being a racial universal).

    So why does the absurdist post that? It's quite obviously and directly false - the actual posts are right there. What gives?

    Another example:
    The direct denial of the existence of a common reality - not merely the particulars being absurdly denied, but the concept itself. The absurdist declares that argument from common reality and argument from popular opinion are one and the same.

    One might ask the direction of influence over time - which came first: the denial, creating the need for a world in which absurd denial of physical fact and historical event can be defended; or the world lacking common reality, in which denial of anything one may need to deny is a sound tactic ready to hand.

    And a third, with the general implications for absurd denials pointed to:
    So instead of talking about white racism and its effects on black people in the US, we are required to talk about IQs and their effects. And these are mutually exclusive, mind - one of them "really determines" things, therefore the other one does not. And so the denial is accomplished.

    This switchout form of absurd denial justification seems to be common: in AGW denial, we have mass media misrepresentations in the service of a globalist agenda; in Holocaust denial we have millions of people killed all over the world for other reasons and in other ways during WWII.
     
  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    LOL

    That said, here, I'll re-rewrite your proposition more clearly so you can see the problem with it: The effects of 'White Racism' in the USA is 'affecting' Black People in the USA.

    See the problem?

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    As for a more specific claim, you argued that: The average IQ score of black Americans is lowered (by some unknown amount) by 'white racism'. Okay, provide good evidence for this (blatantly racist) assertion. Because all of the good evidence strongly suggests that IQ is mostly biological and, at least for adult IQ, extremely resilient to environmental change - including parenting.

    Can it be lowered? Sure, hit someone in the head with a baseball bat, or poisoning: fetal alcohol syndrome. Is this what 'white racism' is doing? Any evidence for this?
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Just quote it. Rewriting is beyond your capabilities.
    Here, I'll save you the trouble: I claim you are denying white racism and its effects on black people in the US.
    I listed, above, a half dozen or more environmental and sociologically influenced factors known to lower IQ scores and known to be differentially distributed by race in the US.
    I also handed you the fact of miscegenation laws in the US, which according to your inheritance claims would directly lower average IQ in the US black population.

    And that is your response?
    Keep in mind that the effects on IQ scores, whatever they may be, are only one aspect of white racism's effects on black people in the US. You are in denial of a great deal of stuff.
     
  10. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    5,003
    Of course, the Party soldiers do not run around and cry "we are Party soldiers and defend the Party line", they cry something about Truth and Facts and so on.

    The point remains that nobody cares about many people with different ideas, opinions, theories about most parts of reality. If they become too boring with repeating stupid nonsense, they are called idiots, cranks, crackpots. That's all. "Denier" is reserved in newspeak for non-support of the Party line.
     
  11. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    LOL

    We're still working on one effect: IQ. So far, you've yet to provide good evidence that 'white racism' is lowering the IQ of anyone - or raising, or even what it should be. I wonder iceaura, given most low IQ people are white people, is their low-IQ and 'effect' of 'white racism'?Oh, wait, there's a normality curve isn't there. Oh, shit

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    So iceaura, given on ANY normality curve, SOME data points (in this example: the IQ of white people) will be very high, and other's, very low. What SHOULD the IQ of the low-IQ white people be iceaura? Or do they have the IQ that they 'should' have?

    Given you're arguing 'white racism' is impacting the IQ of black Americans, you seem to think they 'should' have higher IQ's than their current average - though you present NO data as to what the average should be. None. Zilch. You're just making it up whole cloth, out of the thin blue air. Further, not only are you making wildly improbably claims, you go further and suggest - against ALL evidence, that "white racism" (which is to say, white people) is what's causing this lowering of IQ, that you still haven't shown is lower than it would otherwise be.

    Ah, yes, the fish.

    Ok, let's start that, demonstrate:
    1. That black Americans are not consuming as much omega-6 containing foods (perhaps oily fish - though most foods in the USA are fortified with just about anything you want) as white Americans or Yellow Americans or white Jewish Americans.
    2. That this decreased omega-6 (assuming it occurs) is due to 'white racism' / the fault of white people.
    3. That this is actually impacting IQ scores (which are up to 85% biological).


    This idea that E. Asians (or white Jews) have higher IQ scores because they consume more oily fish is asinine. The reason why E. Asians have higher IQ's is because they score higher on a subtest of spatial reasoning, but not verbal. They probably score higher because their ancestors lived in one of the most extreme environments humans have ever been subjected to - the arctic tundra. For tens of thousands of years. This probably selected for a number of traits, epicanthic folds for one, also: being able to reason about where you are located in a snow field - that was probably helpful for surviving long enough to reproduce too.

    No need for magical unicorn barf at all.
    Just simple chemistry.
    In this case, biochemistry.

    Whether you like it or not, the evidence will continue to pour in. Not only showing IQ is mostly biological, but all sorts of characteristics. Needed to create complex advanced civilizations. In time, these will be positively selected for through genetic tests and IVF and/or simply 'fixed' by gene editing when they are missing. In the future, your arguments will be as silly as 'luminiferous ether'.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  12. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    That doesn't 'lower' the IQ of people in the USA. Unless you think we should 'bred' for IQ? Is that what you think we should do? I mean, it sounds extremely 'progressive', so I wouldn't doubt it....

    Here's the solution: free people, sound money, common law. THEN you will find a lot of low IQ people (whom are mostly white people by the bye) will be able to live a prosperous happy life. Perhaps in time, their children's children won't have to worry about it (because people actually do like to interbred - mostly they just want someone they're physically attracted to who is kind).

    Anyway, these laws are over 100 years old.... jesus, you're talking 16th-century iceaura. Hardly the fault of anyone alive today.
     
  13. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    You understand that Slavery existed for thousands, possibly tens of thousands, of years? The word 'Slave' comes from the word 'Slav' which referred to a bustling trade in Slavic people (white people) amongst Arab people. Not to mention, a lot of slaves sold in the USA were white Irish people. Oh, and get this, it was GAAAAASP white people, Christians to be precise, who ENDED slavery.

    Given 'white people' ended slavery, what 'effect' do you think this has had on black people iceaura?
     
  14. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Since we're talking about 'white racism', and the white guilt I absolutely lack

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    See, my family, a mix of German Jewish, Irish and Scottish were just as likely to have been sold to an American as to have migrated to the US willingly. So, anyway, back to the white guilt (I lack) which probably gives me an objective perspective on our shared past. Plus I'm not an Authoritarian Statist and thus the lack of religious-like belief in the State - which means I generally opt for the Libertarian 'help' your fellow neighbor without pointing a gun in his face. See, Statists NEED someone to blame. That's what they do. One century it's lazy Irish people. The next it's those hook nose Jews. Currently, it's GAAASP White Men

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    So, about those evil white people:
    1. About 10 million black slaves were sold in the Americas. Of these around 400,000 ended up in north America (PBS doco here).
    2. Meanwhile, at the same time, about 1.2 million white Europeans were sold as slaves to north Africans (Barbary slave trade).
    3. Finally, white Christians (mainly English) fought, died and flat-out paid to end Slavery. Mainly white men by the bye.

    Yup, nothing says white patriarchy like the US Civil War to end Slavery together with centuries of spending your own money to end slavery. Slavery, only lasted 90 years on the USA. Incidentally, Thomas Jefferson founded the University of Virginia specifically to educate Americans enough to where they might actually end Slavery without killing one another (forever the optimist). Well, given the Progressive Statist mess we now inhabit, we can see he was wrong on a great number of things - but still, one of the greatest.

    Want to know what the empirical evidence suggests is the reason why Japanese, Singaporeans, Hong Kong Chinese, Taiwanese and Koreans (and soon Chinese mainlanders) were able to rapidly reach the scientific status and surpass the west socioeconomically? Because they have average IQ's of around 105 - 107. We, on the other hand, our IQ is falling - and will keep falling. While set to 100, in reality, it's mid 90s (maybe lower).

    Don't get me wrong, E. Asians moronically implemented Western socialism, destroyed the price mechanism, and are currently working their way out of that mess (probably to rinse and repeat like us), and this greatly reduced their prosperity. The important thing to note is it wasn't 'magic' that will allow them to surpass the West in another generation. It will be their IQ. Perhaps the greatest natural resource of any Nation. Together with some level of free-markets.

    As an aside, I read an article that suggested, even MORE, restrictions should be placed on E. Asian AMERICANS in terms of public service jobs. Apparently, 'merit' based hiring policies are 'unfair' because Asians are being hired into too many positions - what would be 'fair' would be if E. Asians have to pay the income taxes, but are restricted from employment to a 'fair' level of their percentage of the population. This is what you need to understand about Progressive Socialists. They're racists. They will NEVER give up on race. Divide and whin-to-death. This is what they do.

    SOmething to think about

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    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  15. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Your statement is bordering on tautological. Of course humankind is the perpetrator of AGW, that's what it means, by definition, Anthropogenic Global Warming. Anthropogenic - caused by people.
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No, we're not. I'm using all your contortions as evidence of the crippling effects of absurd denial. Your IQ "argument" for white racism having no significant effect on black people in the US is just one of the silliest, and easiest to debunk, and most important to you, is all - it illustrates the problem: denial of Jim Crow being a denial of reality, the more you try to defend it the farther from reality you get.
    According to you, anti-miscegenation laws lowered the IQ of black people in the US (by preventing outbreeding with higher IQ pools, and separating the more successful violations of that outbreeding ban from the racial population, and so forth. Your argument from familial inheritance even suggests inbreeding depression among American blacks - yet another factor, if you took your own argument seriously, which of course nobody does).

    Just another factor among the dozen or so listed above, which amuses me because it is 1) racist by definition, a type specimen 2) very recent, with obvious effects on US demographics now and 3) directly employs your very own dumbass extrapolation of familial inheritance of variance percentage to absolute population average IQ.
    You claim English is not your native language, so you get some slack here - but the US Party Line for, say, AGW, is denial of AGW. Those who support that Party line are the ones being called "deniers" in this thread.

    The word is used here for absurd denial - denial of common reality, of the basis for all reasonable lines. The Party line relationship is by chance only - it may or may not be reasonable, as we see with AGW denial in the US, Holocaust denial in some Muslim countries, Evolution denial in Stalinist USSR, and so forth.
    And because centrally important aspects of the physical world are unknown to you, you are unable to tell the difference between such Party line claims and physical reality - without factual information, it all looks like the same kind of claim to you. So you deny scientific research and factual reality and common observation, thinking you are merely questioning a Party line. You then take a further step - you refuse to become informed, you defend your ascription of "Party line" to the real world against the simplest of reason and observation, you accept even the most foolish of errors in reasoning rather than abandon your label. Hence the absurdity of your claims.

    And this illustrates the feedback effects and consequences of absurd denial.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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  18. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Your argument is that: White racism 'effects' black people in the USA.

    Sure, some white people who are racist, have 'effects' on some black people who live in the USA. Sometimes it's good, such as allowing people with low SAT scores to enter higher education (which is mostly funded by white people by the bye) just because those people are black people. That is an 'effect' of 'white people' acting 'racist'. Or when public servant entry exams, such as to the police force, is lowered to help 'minorities' (aka: blacks and latinos) to get jobs as police officers: see here and here. As a matter of fact, we see time and time again, where standards are lowered to help black Americans gain entry into public institutions.

    That's racism. There are examples of 'white racism' (in the form of 'white guilt') whereby black people, by virtue of being just being 'black' get to meet much lower standards for university or public employment.

    The technical term is structural racism, and it's in favor of black people.

    Do you have some examples of legal racism against black people iceaura? Well? Do you? Becuase we already agreed that yes, SOME white individuals may form opinions based on the misconstrued notion of 'race' (see: a mirror for example) and SOME black individuals may do likewise. So what?

    I find it quite telling that Progressive Socialists crap on about treating people equal - when in reality they're the same racists they've always been.


    Finally, all of the good scientific evidence suggests that the real reason why some people (mostly white by the bye) don't do well on standardized assessments, it most likely due to biological IQ. We'll see how this works out in the long-run. Not that it matters that much to me. I live in Asia. In Asia, there's also a IQ normality curve, but thanks to everyone looking similar, low-IQ don't stand out. They have children with other Asians (most likely to be the average, 105 - 107) and their kids end up just as likely average. That's the great thing about not being multicultural, many of the inherent problems with in-group preferences, disappear. Thus, it's perfectly natural to allow a 7-year-old child to walk to school in a major city, whereas to do so as an adult in the USA, will see you beaten or killed. And thanks to little race-baiters like you, this problem is only going to get worse. Feel free to blame 'white racism' all day long, it's not the reason why low-IQ black, latino, and WHITE people are poor. It's also not the reason why yellow and white-Jewish are rich.[/QUOTE]
     
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  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No, it isn't.
    You mean white racism against black people, of course - that's what's involved in the absurd denial that is the only relevance here.

    You have yet to deal with the dozen or so already posted - my favorite in mocking your denial is still the laws against miscegenation in the US, because their effects include whatever influence inherited IQ - your obsession, in avoiding the thread topic - has.
     
  20. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Anti-miscegenation amendments to the Constitution were all attempted by Democrats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-...-miscegenation_laws_and_the_U.S._Constitution
    Today, racial segregation, which occurs most in democrat-controlled cities, has the most influence on inherited IQ.
     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Are you posting in the right thread? This one is about absurd denial - like Holocaust denial, that kind of thing.
     
  22. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    You're the one who brought up "laws against miscegenation". Are you denying the Democrat hand in that?

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  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Of course not. Do you have some point relevant to this thread?
     

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