# Holocaust ... and other forms of Denial

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Michael, Feb 19, 2017.

1. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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Yes they can. There is no objective measurement of 'race'. Why? Because it doesn't actually exist. Other than in people's minds. Maybe so-called "Black" Americans feel no connection to, and do not consider themselves, "Black". They actually feel and act 'White'. You know: Oreo? Or Yellow people who are 'Banana's'? Or so-called White WannaBe's?

There is no real 'race'. What we do have are environmental pressures on isolated populations that have selected for some phenotypes: Including behavioral, height, mental aptitude, even RBC shape/protein expression. It doesn't mean that ANY human ANYWHERE cannot be born with a similar phenotype, only that some humans were selected and other died when they didn't have said phenotype/s. Humans who migrated north probably died if they didn't plan for the winters. If they didn't work in communities. Humans who were small and skinny died on the open waters traveling island to island (or failed to reproduce at least). Others grew smaller (as animals tend to favor one or the other on islands). Humans who didn't have light complexion didn't produce enough vitamin D. Humans subjected to ice-glare were selected for epicanthal folded eyes. Humans who lived in the far north were more rounded to reduce surface area. Etc....

Pretending this didn't happen is asinine.

3. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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Why I faked being black for med school

It should be noted, Morgan Freedman has stated on numerous times: STOP talking about race. Just stop it, and it'll go away. I agree.

But then, who you going to virtue signal to? Right?

5. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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There's a strong correlation between IQ and mental age. A 14 year old will have a lower IQ when compared with being measured 10 years later.

Regardless, do you think that people who have the mental aptitude of an early teen should be allowed to vote? Sure, it's fine in a Nation State where the vote counts for very little. We live in a Progressive Socialist paradise where the State can shoot you in the head for not paying for it's retard-voted agencies, phony wars or internal spy agencies. Seems reasonable that in such a Nation State, either there should be a very stringent test as to who can and who cannot vote, or maybe we eliminate the vote and live under the gentle rule of our Socialist Overlords. Wouldn't THAT make you happy? Just think, no worry about being Trumped, you'd have B.Sanders looking after things!

My gawd, instant paradise! Free University, food, vacations, cars, healthcare, housing, blah blah blah my GAWDs!

LoL

7. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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I presented evidence that IQ has a strong heritable component: between 50 and 85%. The same is true of all sorts of mental aptitudes including creativity, mathematical ability, motivation, etc... If you follow the scientific method to reach a conclusion based on good evidence, then the data strongly suggest this to be the case (conclusion). Statistics show IQ to be a good measure of mental ability and to have a strong genetic component, this is a strong cogent argument. Probably, within this century, we'll use genetic engineering to ensure all humans have above 120 IQs. Then the point will be mute.

Probably by then skin color, eye color, etc... all of these will be interchangeable. Then, no more worrying about race. Instead, we can worry about ideas. Assuming Left leaning Progressive Socialist Authoritarians haven't made Wrong-Thing a crime punishable by death by then. See, now that's where peaceful parenting will come in handy.

I'm not sure how you've 'blown away' this evidence? Although, I'd suggest there may be some science denying going on. Which seems to be all the fad today. Quite progressive, ironically. The evidence suggests the Flynn Effect was conflating IQ with test-taking experience. The IQ in the West may have been dropping for over 100 years. AAMOF, there's some good reflex data that suggests this is the case. If anything, perhaps so-called White Europeans and E. Asians have IQ scores that are higher than they otherwise should be due to years of test prep.

Essentially, you seem to be a Science Denier in this instance.

Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
8. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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20,285
This is the same ole justification used again and again. It's not fair so and so had a rich dad and go to take all those lovely vacations while I lived with my single mother in a trailer park. So, we need to take from the rich kid and give to the poor kid.

I've literally heard Australians say they were poor because Americans were stealing from them. Of course, that was way back before the mining boom. Somehow America 'owes' everyone else.

The West is rich because the rest of the world is poor. Nations have been conquering and stealing and never did anyone but the Rulers (Government) really attain much wealth. Up until people finally freed themselves from government, maintained common law, and used sound money - the ensuing second industrial revolution lifted the west out of poverty. And has done the same in the far east. Japan is wealthy because they work hard in an industrialized society. They really 'owe' nothing to anyone, they trade freely to maintain their wealth and prosperity.

9. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

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Uh, no, they can't. It's called the real world - get to know it.
So? That's measured over time in a given person. It doesn't measure age between people. IQ does not measure mental age. There are plenty of childish people with high IQs around - some of them are even children.
Thats measured between generations within families. It doesn't hold between populations.
That's "moot". And it won't happen in America - this society won't even provide a hot lunch and a grass playground for black kids.

Meanwhile: You continue to screw up basic population genetics. You have been provided with the example of height - which is at least as strongly heritable, within families, one generation to the next, as IQ. You have the example of Japan, right in front of you, for height - all those short Japanese in the 1950s passed on their 75% or better height inheritance to their children, and their children are not short.

"Heritability" does not apply to sociologically defined populations.
Like I said - a lot people from India are US black. Look at him. US racial categories are biologically bullshit.
I can go you one better - I know at least one woman who changes race seasonally, in Minnesota. What's your point?

Meanwhile, until the police and the courts and the schools stop reacting to race, it's not going to go away. It is, instead, going to quadruple black men's chances of being jailed for smoking dope, and looking for work with a felony record from then on, and their children's chances of having a father who can't pay for music lessons or a house in good school district, and being lead poisoned on top of breathing heavily polluted air. All of which affects IQ - including cross-generationally. And whichever race they would prefer to be is not going to matter at all - nobody's going to ask them.
The "test taking" explanation was disproven. The reflex data don't measure IQ, and their correlation with measured IQ is negative - whatever they are measuring, it's obviously not the the same thing as whatever IQ tests are measuring. And so forth.

10. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

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Americans work harder than the Japanese. The Japanese do not trade freely into Japan itself - they protect local industry and agriculture with many trade barriers. And so forth.

11. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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Working harder and working productively are two different things. Americans work harder, and those Americans probably have a relatively higher personal standard of living. This was found when comparing Americans with Germans.

Yes, I agree, Japan isn't a free-market. Yes, they also protect local industry and agriculture. Yes, they have trade barriers. According to neokeynsians, like Paul Krugman, that's bad. It's hard to say if it is or is not. Because we don't use sound money. Thus, my father walked into a lodge in the Upper Peninsula MI and saw a nice looking cane. He thought he'd buy it. I was pretty much a carved stick. Only $5. Guess where it was made? China. How in the hell can it be 'economical' to ship a stick half way across the world, into the woods, and sell a stick. Statism has ruined the markets. RUINED them. And so, yes, it's probably best not to allow free flowing trade any more or else you'll import messed up market prices due to fiat currency - it could literally destroy your civilization. Particularly when it comes to food production. Thank the Central Bankers. Lack of freedom and economic inefficiency are some of the costs of Progressive Socialism. 12. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member Messages: 20,285 This is easy, provide objective proof of "Black" and "White". This reminds me of Ludwig Wittgenstein's idea of family resemblance. A game of chess and a game of basketball. Both games. Anyway, if people want to categorize themselves as Black or White, good for them. But its' still in their head. 13. ### iceauraValued Senior Member Messages: 27,541 Read Adam Smith - he describes the basic economic principle of comparative advantage. That's how free trade destroys food security in Third World countries, btw - imagine if the food supply of the Americans living near that stick depended on them outcompeting a$5.00 cane, starting with the trees in the nearby woods.
The fact that Michelle Obama is black, in the US, and Donald Trump is white. Blind people, who cannot see their own reflections, nevertheless have racial identities in the US - that are not of their own choosing, and that they cannot change.
It's not in Michelle Obama's head, or Donald Trump's - at least, we don't know that. It's in everybody else's head - that's how we know. And that's not something either of them can do anything about.
Lots of Americans work much harder than the average German but have a lower standard of living - they can't afford medical care, they can't take vacations, they live in polluted and crime ridden areas, their children go to inferior schools, etc.
So when you said that the Japanese were prosperous because they worked hard and traded freely, you were just kidding.

Or illustrating the forms of denial, as in the OP?

Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
14. ### wellwisherBannedBanned

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5,160
The Democratic party in the USA was the original party of slavery and discrimination. Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. The Democratic party preaches diversity, which sounds good on the surface. However, it has the affect of segregating people along the lines of race, ethnicity and sex, to name a few.

If we accept the premise of diversity and you are of German, English or of African descent, which of these cultural identities, will make it easier to accommodate the needs of a living in first world country? It is the cultures who are already in the first world. There is very small learning curve for someone from England. If you are from a poor fourth world country in Africa and the left tells you to be true to you forth world heritage, it will not be easy to do both. The left does this one purpose, which is about dependency and therefore a way to manipulate a voter block.

15. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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Third world countries do not have 'free-trade'. Most still struggle with the concept of private property ownership. Further, third world countries have been poor for millennia. Modern day trade isn't make them poor, it's actually lifting some of them (see: China) out of Government/socialism induced poverty.

So, yes, because we have central banks, and our sound money is in fact unsound 'fiat' currency - I do agree with you, we should not have open trade. What happens is manipulated fiat will destroy the price mechanism for both the manipulator (which is pretty much all countries) AS WELL AS the people who think they're 'getting a deal'. Of course, there is a price to pay. It seems to me, that price is paid by the Earth's ecosystems. As an example, the Federal Reserve artificially lowered the price of money, to bail out the bankers and boomers and slumlords (often all one and the same), this is being paid by the destruction of the environment in China. Now, maybe the Earth can handle it. Or maybe not. Either way, when our central bank manipulates our currency, it destroys the price mechanism and we thus have 5 dollar canes in a woods filled with free stick AS WELL AS people tossing out supercomputers because they like the look of the newer model. That wastefulness IMO would not occur with sound money. But, maybe it would? Or maybe we'd have a thriving recycling industry? No one knows.

That's why I continue to say: SOUND money is one of the three requirements for a prosperous economy. But, that said, without a critical mass of high IQ individuals, regardless of why they have high IQ, you're not going to sustain a modern economy. It's not physically possible. It may be that third world nations can only reach a certain level of prosperity without importing high IQ people to come and do the work that requires high intellect.

Asians are lucky in a way. It's easy for them comparably, raising children. I've seen plenty of average children reading in two scripts at the age of 3. I saw a child teach herself to read in a second alphabet. She was read to and learned to read at age 3. Then by 4, unbeknownst to her parents, taught herself to read in a second kana. Apparently, it's not that uncommon. Further, the parents have high IQ. So they have no problem spending hours and hours teaching their children to read and do math. It's built into their DNA and thus into the culture. To pretend this isnt' the case, to pretend everyone is the same, is not helpful. One day maybe. Maybe even this century. Not today.

16. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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Shared delusion doesn't mean it's real. And, it's a great example of how language manipulates thoughts. No one would think twice about the color of a person's eyes in determining their 'race'. But somehow, magically, their skin complexion is 'racial'.

Again - it's a delusion.

IQ on the other hand is objective measurement. And we don't need to separate people into 'racial' categories based on subjective experience. We could instead have IQ normality curves that are based on scientific measurements.

We'll see how Germany fairs as their 'multicultural' society develops. As I stated, they'll end up like us, for the exact same reasons. Sweden is already lowering their standards and already has ghettos. This all in less then 15 years.

There is no free-trade. Japan's first experiment with free-ish trade was inside Japan. It made people more prosperous. But it also disrupted the power structures and led to war. Until, finally, the entire nation was 'unified' / enough people will killed until one person ruled the whole of Japan. Trade with China was relatively free. Japanese developed a lot of their culture trading with China through value adding. China made silk. Japanese made kimonos. The freer the trade, with sound money, the better off most people become.
I think I was quite clear.

17. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

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The sociological races exist - as shared delusions, whatever, they are quite real. They are easy to quantify, for example, and objective data about their members fills hard drives all over the US.
So is skin color, hair texture, self identification, etc - one can easily quantify many racial attributes.
Not for the same reasons - they already have different ones operating.
When the US created its ghettos, it was a step up - higher, not lower, standards. Clearly not the same reasons.
Your timeline is fictional. Is that another reference to that one authoritarian shogun who first unified Japan?

18. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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As real as the color blue or the taste of ripe strawberries.
Anyone can 'self-identify' as any category. As for skin color, some so-called 'white' people have darker skin color than some so-called 'black' people. Thin nose, broad nose, button nose; thin lips, full lips; curly hair, straight hair, wavy hair; brown hair, blond hair, red hair; brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes.

Any of these phenotype can occur in any combination. The ONLY way you can be 'white' or 'black' is to 'self-identify' as such.

Firstly, the US isn't a person. Secondly, no one 'set up ghettos'. Thirdly, the 'ghettos' that now exist, organically developed and are maintained by progressive socialism, they are fed and watered and regenerated by GiverMint Welfare, GiverMint housing, GiverMint Schools, GiverMint roads with GiverMint buses. All paid for by our Centralized Progressive Bank and its fiat curreny. All enforced by our GiverMint Regulations and our GiverMint Police Forces. Thus, this ensures a steady supply of State-dependent voters (who will overwhelmingly vote Democrat or whomever is "Left") and allows that only those with the highest IQ, who fit perfectly into the State's hyper-square peg-hole, are able to move out (and serve as an 'example' for why the system 'works' and is 'fair'). Everyone trapped in generational GiverMint Welfare will be taught that it's either "White Racism" (never mind the s0-called half-Black POTUS) or it's their fault, they obviously didn't study hard enough. I mean, look over there Xiough Chan aced her test results. What's your problem?

This will be repeated by brain-dead University "Professors" who couldn't earn half their salary in the free-market if their life depended on it.

If I were the "Trump" team, I'd begin separating Universities into Technical Universities and Humanity Universities with completely separate funding structures based on "What's Good for Society". DO we NEED electrical engineers? Oh, we do, you get a scholarship. Social studies? Talk to the bank.

All of Japan was Authoritarian. The guy who unified Japan and made himself Shogun used free-markets to generate the wealth needed to conqueror the rest of what became the Nation of Japan.

Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
19. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

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Black people cannot self-identify as white people in the US. They can only be white if they can arrange to be identified as white by white strangers.
Nobody said the US was a person. The modern ghettos did not "organically develop" - they were established deliberately, by redlining and other organized racial discrimination directed consciously and strategically against black people.

And they were a step up, from the even more miserable situations these internal refugees were fleeing.
That's not what happened. I have already provided you with links to factual accounts of that man's doings in that time and place, in earlier threads.

20. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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wow the level of ignorance and possibly bigotry here is mind boggling. really third world countries have been poor for millennia just how ignorant are you. i know you heard of the aztecs and incans and mayans. or what about the mali empire. mansa musa brought so much gold with him on he devalued gold in the mamuluk empire for a decade. its the only time in recorded history that one man directly controlled the price of gold in the mediterranean and he was from one of those places you say was poor for thousands of years. the more i read your posts the more ignorant you are. their poor because of colonialism. for fucks sake do some fucking research instead of this eurocentric bullshit.

21. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

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Which one of them would teach you how to use a dictionary?

What would be good for US society would be its population of racist rightwing thugs learning some history, economics, and common sense. You don't need any university at all, for that. You do need a public library - and the internet, roads, sewers, etc, are a significant help.

22. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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Once Universities are partitioned into STEM Technical Universities and Community Humanity Associate Colleges, then racist right-wing thugs can attend their local community college with their left-wing thugish cousins. Actually, the best 'public' libraries in the USA were privately founded. As for the internet, sure, they can pay for it. AAMOF, the internet and on-line course can probably replace most humanity studies. STEM on the other hand, will require some hands on training. Maybe not as much as now.

As for Black people identified as White. Firstly, yes anyone can. Obama could have said he was 'White' or 'Black' or 'Neither' or 'Both'. Unless you have an objective method? Do you? What? A DNA test?

My point is, we can still categorize people, only instead of a subjective experience (like White) we can do so objectively. And we do. It's called IQ. It's measured via the SAT and ACT and MCAT and etc... So, this is a better method, and one that is currently in use.

I'm wondering, do you think a person with an IQ of 65 should be given equal acceptance into Medical School as someone with an IQ of 120? Do you think a person with an IQ of 65 should be allowed to vote?

23. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

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It's a sociological category - you just ask somebody in the society. If there's any question, ask ten people. Barack and Michelle Obama will be black, Donald Trump will be white, in US society.

But most people in the US - even blind people - know what race they are. They get told, as children - if not by their parents, by strangers on the street. So it's faster and cheaper to simply have them check the box - like that guy from India, they'll know which boxes they can check, and which ones they can't.
The racist thugs will of course attend the STEM technical schools - just like now, at the big engineering universities - and learn no history or rhetoric or even science outside their presupposed vocational needs. The children of the wealthy will likely attend high end liberal arts universities, and consolidate their hold on money and power. And the people who are to educate your children, draft your laws, write your books and movies, play your music, advertise your products, negotiate with your friends and enemies, etc, will go to one of those other schools - and create the future of of your society, based on the education they receive there.