History of the Holocaust

Discussion in 'History' started by S.A.M., Sep 28, 2009.

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  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    1. How many people died at the hands of the Nazis?
    2. How was the religious identity of the victims determined?
    3. What are the records used to study the holocaust?
    4. Who kept these records?
    5. How was the authenticity of the records determined?
    6. What is the evidence supporting the desire of Germans to eliminate the Jewish population?
    7. Where did the 6 million figure come from?
    8. Which records are available to the public?
    9. What is the evidence of the methods used by the Nazis?
    10. What efforts were made to compensate other victims of the Nazis?

    note: I am not denying the holocaust or its popular narrative. I am interested in the factual information available for discrete analysis.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
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  3. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Out of curiousity, discrete analysis for what or of what?
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Answering these questions in detail would require a book. I suggest you go out and buy one. There are plenty.
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Could you recommend some books that answer these questions?
     
  8. Gustav Banned Banned

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    i suppose then if you have nothing to contribute to this thread you can stalk sam somewhere else, yes?
     
  9. Gustav Banned Banned

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    /snicker

    james will probably throw some books at you and shut down this thread
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Doesn't matter, if the books are valid ones and I can obtain them. They will make for good discussion.

    I read about this the other day, on another forum and found it curious.

    I won't put up the ad described since its a taboo subject, but I am interested enough in the clampdown to take a look at the questions asked.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
  11. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    I think it's perfectly fair to question details of the holocaust, that doesn't equate to denial as far as I see it. Maybe the number of dead is closer to 5 million rather than 6 million, maybe it's actually even higher than previously thought. Nothing wrong with asking questions and then seeking out high quality objective evidence, of which there seems to be no shortage. What perplexes me is that you can show this much interest in studying the details of the holocaust and trying to verify or dispute them, yet how much critical analysis have you ever applied to a book like the Quran, whose historical accuracy would be infinitely more questionable and unsubstantiated by comparison? I'm not trying to derail this thread into an argument about Islam, it's just a thought that occurred to me on the spot just now.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    It only perplexes you because
    1. you haven't read my discussions about Islam here
    2. your assumptions about me are not my problem.
     
  13. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    Obviously I haven't read all 61,000 of your posts, so I wouldn't know how much you question one thing or another. I just wanted to know if you've put the kind of effort into questioning your most cherished beliefs that you put into questioning details about an event like the holocaust, especially considering the fact that the holocaust was a relatively recent event which can be tested and cross-examined from an almost limitless number of angles.
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed, you wouldn't. Got any good sources for the OP? I wish to avoid the holocaust industry and focus on original sources, whats the best place to start?
     
  15. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    What kind of sources are you looking for? If you want to look hard enough, I'm sure you can even contact former NAZI concentration camp guards in person and ask them for yourself. Have you ever bothered to ask around at one of your local universities' history departments? Or what about the departments of religious studies? Why not go straight to the experts instead of just looking for whatever pops up on Google?
     
  16. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    But again, I must remark, I just find it real strange how recent, verifiable events get questioned and studied with such veracity, but ancient unverifiable events don't. Please point me to an old thread of yours where you ask these kinds of questions about Islam SAM, I'm honestly just curious to see how you approach these things.
     
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    The holocaust is not a big deal in India. I'll look to see if there are any academic departments here but none pop to the mind atm. Isn't there any source that is recommended for academic resources online?

    edit: I don't usually ask questions about Islam, I answer them. I spent five years in Saudi Arabia and have a pretty good base in the religion. If you are curious enough, the search function is your friend.
     
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    SAM:

    You might want to try:

    DENYING HISTORY: WHO SAYS THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED
    AND WHY DO THEY SAY IT?
    by Michael Shermer and Alex Grobman
    University of California Press

    This will answer all of the questions above, and contains references to many other sources you can then follow up yourself.
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Does it contain original sources? I prefer to look at original sources rather than someone's opinion of what they say.

    Never mind:

    I think those two statements taken together are very informative about the slant of the book.

    Anyone else?
     
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    No general book on something like the holocaust contains original sources.

    Original sources may be found in various libraries in Germany and in government archives. Have a nice trip.
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So nothing is available to the average scholar? At all?
     
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    SAM:

    Scholars who want primary sources always have to look in libraries and archives of various kinds. You may also want to personally interview some holocaust survivors, who are among the best sources of oral histories. Since many of them are dead, I suggest you look at the Shoah Foundation archive of video and sound recordings of various stories.

    link to Shoah Foundation
     
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