hindu trinity and christian trinity

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by robtex, Oct 30, 2004.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    12,232
    everneo,

    LOL! There is no Chiva, that is a spelling error.

    Please read Srimad Bhagavatam and see for yourself.

    In Bhagavat Purana, Lord Shiva is described as almost on the same level as Lord Vishnu.

    Check your PM.

    Jan Ardena.
     
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  3. c20H25N3o Shiny Heart of a Shiny Child Registered Senior Member

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    The Christian man holds faith to the following. I think it explains the relationship we have to God rather well.

    "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live," (1 Cor. 8:5-6, NIV).
     
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  5. c20H25N3o Shiny Heart of a Shiny Child Registered Senior Member

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    Behold! An interesting article on the subject of the Christian doctrine surrounding the Holy Trinity...

    Taken from http://www.abcog.org/onegod.htm

    The Doctrine of the Trinity is one attempt at a solution. The term "God" is redefined such that the Father, the Son and the personified Holy Spirit are combined into one quasi-individual to accord with Deut. 6:4. This quasi-individual can then be unpacked into three distinct entities when theologically convenient as, for instance, in explaining I Cor. 8:6

    But we haven't yet heard from Jesus!

    " The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? [Psa. 82:6, Jewish Publication Society "divine beings", which means the same thing!] If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (John 10:33-36)
    What is Jesus talking about here? He is saying that the "strict monotheism" of the Jews does not accord with Scripture! He is saying there can be many gods!

    Indeed this is the promise of the Christian "good news"!

    Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (I John 3:2)
    How can we be like Jesus, if he is part of a fixed "Trinity"? We can't be! What does it mean to be a "Son of God", and yet not be able to attain to god-level status?

    Jesus came to reveal the God as a Father (Matt. 11:27). In other words, that the Supreme God is a Father, the head of a Family. Jesus is the eldest son, also a god-level being:

    "And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], My Lord and my God." (John 20:28)
    Jesus is the "firstborn among many brethren" (Rom. 8:29). All Christians, begotten as children of God by means of the Holy Spirit, will also be god-level beings, part of the divine family:

    And [the Lord] will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2 Cor. 6:18)
    Our Father's purpose, from the very beginning, was to create us in His image (Gen. 1:27). This is exactly how all parents start their families!

    The wonderful message of Jesus is that the supreme God is a Father, who wants a large family of god-level Sons and Daughters. Our Father wants you in His family to share, in love, all His wonderful attributes for all eternity!

    How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation! (Heb. 2:3)


    peace

    c20
     
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  7. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    Then it is a huge spelling error in the sanskrit text you quoted.

    For a change, please read Shiva purana or Skanda purana and find out Shiva has no bigining and no end. Infact it says Vishnu was created by Shiva!!.

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    Thanx for the link. By saying Shiva was created you already put him down far below Vishnu & Brahma.

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    Such arguments like who is greater, was happening long long back. In this modern time, i feel like shit to carry on this nonsense. All are same old 'Brahman' in different forms. Period.

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  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    everneo,

    You are indeed correct and i am stumped as to how it wasn't checked and corrected. But if you read in chapter 4 you will find the correct spellings.

    You are correct, but there are reasons for this, one reason being that they are tamasic by nature, which is the source of contention between shaivites and vaishnavites. Fortunately, having read Bhagava Purana before any others, i have never had any reason to doubt the high status of Lord Shiva and his similarity to Lord Vishnu. In the Brahma Samitas Siva is described thus;

    Ksiram yatha dadhi vikara-visesa-yogat
    Sanjiayate na hi tatah prthag asti hetoh
    Yah sambhutarn api tatha samupaiti karyad
    Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami


    Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Sambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction.
    (Sri Brahma Samhita, 5.45)


    In all honesty i didn't say he was created, i said he (Rudra) was born from between the eyes of Lord Brahma due to his (Brahma) curbed anger. It is this form of Lord Shiva that makes up the trinity, creator, maintainer and destroyer.

    I'm afraid it's not quite as simple as that.

    Brahma-samhita

    TEXT 1


    isvarah paramah krsnah
    sac-cid-ananda-vigraha
    anadir adir govindah
    sarva-karana-karanam


    isvarah--the controller; paramah--supreme; krsnah--Lord Krsna; sat--comprising eternal existence; cit--absolute knowledge; ananda--and absolute bliss; vigrahah--whose form; anadih--without beginning; adih--the origin; govindah--Lord Govinda; sarva-karana-karanam--the cause of all causes.

    TRANSLATION

    Krsna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.

    Jan Ardena.
     
  9. Rick Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,336
    Everneo,

    Let me expound a little bit;
    First of all, Brahma and Brahman are two different things : Brahman is absolute truth(read my thread to kmguru and raj for details) ,it is stuff that we are made up of, it is the absolute reality,rest everything including trinity of lords is a Myth mentioned in Mandukya Upnishad and Rig Ved as well.

    And there fore Brahma is the name of the Creator Lord.

    bye!
     
  10. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    3,336
    And Remember,

    Jan Ardena might be Vaishnva,so she will always say Krishna was the suprem head of all,

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    hahaaha...If you want some neutral perspective: consult someone else.I would not comment on Jan's comments since i pray all of the lords and pay respect to them equally: i love them all.

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    --Thanks--
     
  11. UltiTruth In pursuit... Registered Senior Member

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    533
    I second everneo. I am a fairly devoted Hindu, though not a master of the texts. But I have never heard this version of Siva being the son of Brahma in my life!!!

    Maya (=mystery), the precursor of all, was won over by Siva among the trinity and thus she gave all her powers to Siva including her third eye. Hence Siva was the most powerful among the trinity, though he was always a yogi- simple & detached; and easy to please. The consorts of the trinity are parts of the maya itself.

    And if as per Jan's theory, if Siva was the son of Brahma, it would have been very prominent when Siva chopped off one of Brahma's four heads; and Siva would have been a brother to Narada, which also would have been very prominent!

    However, these superiority trifles are not for those who follow Hinduism by its spirit, but for those who take it by the letter! Personification of the trinity is an over-simplification (probably for the masses) of a mysterious hyper-truth!
     
  12. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    12,232
    Krishna was the son of Vasudev in His incarnation, but we know that Arjuna accepted Krishna as Param-Brahman, the source of everything including Vasudev.
    Lord Shiva has a role within the Trinity, and that role is to anihilate the universe at a given time. The specific character is name Rudra who is one aspect of Lord Shiva, who was generated from the brow of Lord Brahma, in a moment of anger, hence Brahmaji is the father of Rudra, who is an aspect of Lord Shiva.

    It is not my theory, it is clearly documented in the Srimad Bhagavatam, as i have already quoted some passages.

    Didn't Brahma have 5 heads, of which one was chopped off by Shiva?

    Jan Ardena.
     
  13. VossistArts 3MTA3 Registered Senior Member

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    454


    write on what. i agree.

    as for trinity, in buddhism, the tri-kaya. its all connected. also we're not really following anything but a drive to apprehend ever more. the religions the saints saviours and gurus, just walkways. interesting, sometimes useful, never really necessary. we will find our way.
     
  14. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    3,336
    Someone posted : You mistook Brahma for Brahman.You are wrong my friend.Brahman is different from Brahma.Brahma is God who is manifestation of Brahman.
     
  15. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    3,336
    I suppose you got it?
     
  16. enton www.truthcaster.com Registered Senior Member

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    454
    You made a mistake. Christianity never taught trinity and Hinduism too. Hinduism teaches about Trimurti. B, V, S.

    Catholicism teaches about trinity. Christianity acknowledged the presence of three: God the Father, God the Son, and Holy Spirit. But trinity which teaches about their co-equal powers is not the doctrine taught by the apostles and the early christians.
     
  17. ashwini This is because man in never. Registered Senior Member

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    59
    but i thought ahum brahmasmi or i am brahma is the ultimate for every hindu..if vishnu is the greatest then y is it that the above phrase is so widely seeked after?
     

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