Hey Athiests: How About Some Objectivity?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by jmpet, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Perhaps not, yet there is such a thing as reasoned faith that differs starkly from the unreasoned faith of the religionist.

    My wife has been loyal, supportive, loving and tolerant of me for 33 years, so I have faith that she will continue to be so, and that faith is reasoned.

    The religionist, on the other hand, is the latest in a long line of religionists who have never observed any empirical evidence that a supernatural universe exists and that creatures who live there capriciously interfere with the behavior of the natural universe. Yet they continue to have faith that one or more supernatural creatures exist because believing so makes them feel better, That faith is unreasoned.
     
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  3. Regular0ldguy This is so much fun! Registered Senior Member

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    You are OLD.

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    That is a valuable insight. We can believe (have faith) in a lot of things. Some with a broad and sound basis, others just based on hope. And then there is everything in between.

    As for Aliens. There are just too much real estate out there to not have something very similar happen there (since the fact that it happened here shows that it CAN happen). We have our universe, and some of you know how frick'n many planets are in THAT, and then we have the infinite number of probable adjacent universes (as there is no reason to think there is some wall or empty space out there) and our little dynamic breathing universe seems like it might be just one bubble in an infinity of other bubbles of stuff in the infinite everywhere. I mean really, how can there be a limit? That's like the Truman Show. Who made that wall or that limit? And why?
     
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  5. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Thankyou. I am having this very debate with JamesR. He's stretching aspects of this to breaking to breaking point.
     
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  7. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    If it were generally considered as poetry, I would not have a problem with it. But it's taken seriously and often literally.
    I understand and appreciate the distinction you are making, but I feel the terms should be separate. There is faith and there is reason. Faith is the opposite of reason. Your term "reasoned faith" would better be called a likely hypothesis based on evidence.
     
  8. Varda The Bug Lady Valued Senior Member

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    I have never heard of a robber who cares about the opinion of the person he is robbing.

    I fail to see how that is pertinent.
     
  9. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    precisely

    your opinions and your value of them cannot deal with such minor incidents as a stolen wrist watch, what to speak of larger applications to the universe at large
     
  10. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

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    I was once robbed by 6 young guys at knifepoint; I gave them my wallet and they also asked for my watch. When they were going to run away I shouted: “Hey dude! Please throw my ID and credit card in the sidewalk!”... And he did.
     
  11. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    When you get robbed, would you not prefer that the robber would share your opinion, namely, that your opinion that you don't want to be robbed should matter to him or her?

    Would you report a crime that you believe was done to you, or would you think "It's just my opinion that a crime was committed against me. And since my opinion matters only to myself, I will not do anything further, I will not go to the police or tell anyone about the crime." -?
     
  12. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Obviously, you hoped, and acted on that hope, that the robbers would care about your opinion that you deserve the ID and credit card.

    You didn't think that your opinion matters only to yourself.
     
  13. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think that they are using the same parts of the brain, and here is why: the vast majority of atheists who believe that aliens from other planets or galaxies exist are also willing to cheerfully admit that they might be wrong about aliens existing. They have an opinion that aliens probably exist based on some reasoning or evidence, but it doesn't cause them any undue stress to imagine that their reasoning might be wrong and aliens might not exist.

    The vast majority of theists, on the other hand, seem utterly unwilling to admit that there's even a possibility that they are wrong. They are (or at least claim to be) 100% certain. I have asked plenty of theists over the years what sort of evidence it would take to convince them that their god didn't exist, and nearly every single one has responded that there is nothing that could possibly convince them that they are wrong. They also tend to get really hostile and defensive about it, even when the question is posed in a polite way, as if the very idea that they could be wrong about their god made them uncomfortable.

    So it seems to me that there are two very different parts of the brain at work in atheists who believe in aliens vs. theists. If you can find some atheists who say that they are 100% certain that aliens exist and that nothing could ever possibly change their mind, and who get all hostile and defensive at the very notion, then I would agree that there's a good chance they are using the same parts of the brain as is used by theists.
     
  14. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    Not as dramatic as the zombie uprising, but consider the Jewish historian Josephus writing about Herod. Josephus pulls no punches complaining about Herod being a corrupt, incompetent ass of a ruler - but somehow, Josephus never bothers to mention Herod inexplicably ordering the massacre of an entire town's male babies. Even though Josephus goes on at great length complaining about all sorts of other, much less interesting and not-nearly-as-bad stuff that Herod did...
     
  15. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Are you implying that theists reject the possibility of life on other planets completely? If so, based upon what?

    If not, then it's not just atheists that hold the position there may be life on other planets, and your little rant becomes rather deflated.
     
  16. Regular0ldguy This is so much fun! Registered Senior Member

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    You might be getting a little sloppy with "faith". I thought faith was believing something either in the absence of any evidence, or against the weight of the evidence.

    That's not quite the same as postulating a theory that is consistent with what we know, and is merely an extension of it. Also, the former tends to be unassailable, whereas the latter is held as likely to be true, awaiting either further confirmation or contradiction.
     
  17. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    there are arguments that the power of healing was not in Jesus but in the person who believed Jesus could.
    there has never been anyone else as believable as jesus, (see telemarketing)
    so ppl do not believe they can heal themselves,so they don't.


    i'm not as think as you messed up i am..
     

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