http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3137392.stm Amidst all the news(and threads) about zionist atrocities, its important to remember that even zionists are people, and people can be woken up to the inhumanity of their actions. The fact that people so immerssed in the killing could come to their senses is very encouraging.
that's nice to know as for the pilots...it's very unfortunate that they prefer the "roll over and die" option as opposed to killing those who kill them and their children. but fighter pilots are regarded as the elite of israeli society and if they say something like that (it's 27 out of how many? 100's? 1000's?) even if it's extremely stupid and disapointing, than it has a big weight. very stupid idea... it'll show the arab murderers that israel's moral is low and that the "suicide bombings" tactic is working. in essence, it would encourage more terrorism. good job boysPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/343998.html don't blow these news out of proportion. there are thousands of pilots.. these 27, the large majority of them are not even in service. they're deep into their retirement. they do flashy interviews with their flightsuit on (they're not supposed to do that)... they gave this letter to the media 1st, and not to their superiors... they're a disgrace and should leave the airforce immidiately. they also, as one interviewee in the article states, are trying to revive an old subject that is dead in the public and media : refusal. go on doggies, put your tails between your legs and run
I could not help but be impressed with IAF pilots I flew with and got to know briefly. Their candor about the fighting they had done surprised me, and those I spoke with were not the any-thing-to-protect-tiny-Israel attack dogs I expected. Some stories came easy about flying against Egyptian or Syrian MiGs. Ground targets assigned in Lebanon and the OTs were not a happy topic at the bar. I am not surprised that these pilots are showing their bravery. Neither am I surprised at Zionazis downplaying the significance of this and other acts by brave Israeli soldiers and citizens. Israeli apartheid and ethnic cleansing will end someday, as will the resultant Arab reprisals. Israeli refuseniks are the vanguards of the real "roadmap to peace". They have my deepest respect.
Interesting statement from an "israeli" in Canada... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
yep sparks ,i wanted to say the same ( but i wasn´t sure if otheap was the jew in canada ) be aware ,otheap ,the mad firecrackers will follow you everywhere ! you can run ,but you cannot hide Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Those Israeli pilots are and have to be very well educated people. They realize something that the rest either don't know or they want this to happen. This being arab civilian deaths, this being the "targeted" murder of leaders who invairbly kill innocents. What is the difference btwn the massacre of Guernica to the one's in Gaza? The Nazi's were vilified for that, but the Israeli's are feeling the brunt of international indifference.
my parents took me away when i was younger, before the latest shit started, so i won't have to serve in the army i was actually looking forward to serving Israeli's are feeling the brunt of international indifference hardly, nico if there would be indifference, israel would DESTROY the hamas & co, completely disarm the PA and destroy it too. it would bring the situation to pre-oslo conditions. there's international indifference to the suffering of israelis...but not to the arabs
Well the only reason why Israel hasn't done that is the US. But for the most part Israel is allowed free reign on the Pals. But this beggs the question, if Iraq did it then surely a entire war would be started on it. The nazi's did in in Guernica in 1937, they were considered blood thirsty, but when the Hebrew-boys (lol, in your dreams) do it..it's ok. A slap on the wrist attitute is taken of course.
And then they closed their borders to all israeli expatriates that had moved to Canada. The bounders, nay, the cads... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
you're right, sparks. i should be in the IDF now but i'm not.. and for that i'll be always dissapointed of myself. i'm doing other things now (like SCHOOL?) .....but it's better to be an armchair activist as opposed to no activist at all. The nazi's did in in Guernica in 1937 what on earth are you comparing to what???? do you even know what happened in Guernica? when you say things like that i wonder should i even bother... Guernica was bombed by nazi planes as "target practice" and fun. there were absolutely no anti- nazi fighters hiding there... it was an exclusively civilian area. as a result lots of civilians died and the place practically destroyed. how does that compare to israelis going after terrorists? ------ hypewaders: the 1st link you posted... www.yesh-gvul.org this organization has been around for decades. they don't condone any violence what so ever. they say "if you fight, you'll come back in a coffin"....completely disregarding the fact that ppl are ending up in coffin without going anywhere at all. the hypocricy of ppl on the board here is astounding an israeli who fights back : zionazi. an israeli who just stands there and lets himself be kicked around (bombed around) : good ol' jewish boy. and then the world is surprised when israel doesn't take it seriously (nico, you're right. mostly it's the US's putting the breaks on israel)
Guernica was a example of attacking civilians, look at jenin? Or the attacks by the luft.. sorry IAF against un-armed, un-defended civilians on the ground? What is the difference? Why because it is Israel it is different? Why because it's not He-111's but Apache's that are killing innocents? These pilots know what they are doing is paramount to the murders of their suicide brothers who also kill innocents. When Israel could avoid attacking, or lock boxing innocents for the sake of some perceived peace, you Israeli's are dilussional. Keep on killing, expect more Hamas' to come. Murder is murder. The sounds of the rotor blades of the Apache on top of Gaza's Khan Younis is like the Ju-87's over warsaw ghetto. Ready to strike at any time. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
i guess it's a matter of opinion. again, main difference, nazis were looking for civilian areas, israelis are looking for terrorists if you think it's the same, if you think terrorist = civilian then then i've ran out of arguments. to tell u the truth i can't believe i'm even dignifying this comparison (israel vs. nazis) with a response. you will receive none vis-a-vis this topic from me from now on.
othedap, Guernica is comparable, as the german forces were bombing the civilian families of the enemies of their allies, as the IDF bomb the civilian familes of their enemies.
if you think it's the same, if you think terrorist = civilian then then i've ran out of arguments. terrorist = civilian !!! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
To Sharon, the definition of a terrorist is any Palestinian they kill. Remember the Bethleham seige in which the Israelis claimed their snipers were only shooting clearly identified terrorists. When it was over amonst the sniper victims were a monk and the churches retarded bellringer. Every day, we hear of another assassinated "Hamas" terrorist leader. But we only have the Israeli States word that these people are terrorists or leaders. There has been no trial. There has been no evidence provided. Only a fool would trust the Israeli government as to who they are killing. Some are and some aren't. And when dropping 2000 lb bombs and firing Apache missiles into crowded urban areas, you are guaranteed to kill innocent civilians. The right wing Israelis are soulmates of the Nazis when it comes to killing those outside their group. Untermenschen are subhuman and thus extermination is acceptable.
one should think they´ve learned some things from the past ...... but they didn´t Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I can't help but wonder to what extent the advertising blitz on the deaths of the sons of Saddma is farcical. We see in this forum people congratulating each other for the lost of someones sons. And most horribly it looked like. I wonder what the twelve year old or whatever age he was looked like. The other two looked like they fought heroically. In reality, lets give this the consideration we would as would any science driven society as the US is. A society that appeared to be benign, even as its internal struggles became a calling cry for much of the oppressed. I consider the message left by Martin LK was one of those. But we really should ask ourselves why. There could be many reasons, of course there were vested interest. Consider advancing from the medievel stage to one or two steps after. What must it be like. I would think many of the strictures of the age would still be there, maybe in some diluted form (or rather some advanced form). As was said, there was a dream. I cannot but wonder if that is the definition of intelligence. The ability to dream. Intelligent animals appear to have this ability. If that is the case than it must be that society is a dream. We cannot include the laws of physics in this argument. Maybe it will happen and maybe never. What is society's a dream. One question must be, how did it begin? I can imagine communication intra-species must have happened. But communication on a sophisticated level. Something that can communicate the abstract. Like I am sad, I am happy. At some point when this occured, it possibly would have seen the appearance of empathy. What is empathy? To feel as the other feels. Self awareness, and awareness in others. Something we see in a lesser form (maybe) in apes. Who knows, maybe a longer memory. Somehow, the species communicated a dream. A dream of a better tomorrow. A simple idea really. That must have been the start of society, should the initial assumption be correct. I wonder about this assumption because so much of what humanity does appears to be connections of known facts, a kind of testing the boundaries of the established knowledge. All the important or meaningful calling crys for society, have been concepts. Concepts that in essence attempts to free the minds of humanity (even if in many cases it is actually only a perception). The idea of society seems strange. Animals sharing the exact same niche, living together. And yet we do. As was told me was said by Che Guevarra (?), we are intelligent. It is quite true. Humanity is truly amazing. But we must also admit that we have just only risen from animal socialisation. So we now have two powerful messages. Eat or be eaten, or we can form a society. I tend to believe that if we use our reasoning, and consider for an instance that we are who we are, we can and will be as we want to be. We want to be great. We want to conquer the universe and survive. The original message of the whole species. It also appears to me that this was the essence of the American Dream. Civilisation is a dream of humanity because it has been successful. The requirement of civilisation is being in a society. A society is an interaction of a species. This interaction is an exchange of information. This information can be in the form of money as in traditional economic systems, or it can be in the form of something else. One possible outcome of capitalism and democracy with perfect information (or as close to it as can be made) and with the impediments to their progression be put aside is that the value of all activity will equal 1 unit of currency. Therefore, the more you do for society, the more money you will make as each user will buy that information for 1 unit. The definition of what you do for society will than be the outcome of society's information machine. If that information machine is manipulated then imbalance will occur in that economy. I believe that the outcome we see in society today represents that. The outcome if it were let free, and if we assume that all people have a role in society (without the crime for instance, there would be no police people. A large part of all economies). The question is where would they go? So economy, or the exchange of information, is a large part of society. What I wonder is this. This bloodlust appears to be killing large numbers of people. This evil is compounded most evilly, by possibly killing the next big information provider. The human being. One commonality I have discovered about society is that intelligence of the highest kind exists randomly in society, but mostly, that in general, a larger group tends to be more intelligent in terms of knowledge and conceptual thinking, all things being equal, than a smaller group. What is worst is that we, the animal, appear not to notice our animal side. The side that defends us against fear. The one with the teeth. We seem to have advanced it (maybe another precursor to intelligence) in so many small increments that we do not recognise it anymore. It is beyond memory. So when I see the young Hussein's, I am proud as a father, but I am sad. I feel Mr Hussein's pain. I do not know this person, and from all accounts, he has done many things, not all agreeable. But so has our forefathers, and those amongst us now. So I have a dream too. My dream is that we awake as intelligent beings and do as is right. To acheive that higher ideal of civilisation. We do not know enough. We have only started on the journey. But when we recognise that, there is hope. Where does our intelligence take us. I think further than we can imagine.
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exactly ,wot wuz det ,crazeeeeeem ??? che guevarra ? amerikan dream ? hussein ? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
