Heroes

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by lixluke, Sep 27, 2006.

  1. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    9,686
    No. He saved the girl in Japan because of the comic book that the junkie drew.
    Also, he got that comic book, not from the past, but from the future. A common philosophical plot point. The past is set, the future is not.

    Of course, this does put in question how the Future Hiro could hope to change the past by 'saving the cheerleader', but there are a number of possibilities to explain this.

    One is that the Future Hiro is in more control of his powers. However, this doesn't really seem to fit as this Future Hiro wouldn't even exist if the cheerleader hadn't been saved.

    This suggests a second possibility. That the past is set and temporal interferences from the future are also set into the past. Quite the circumlocution, but such is life. Such things ended up with Zaphod Beeblebrox being the zeroth of his line.

    Memory girl died. Therefore she wasn't saved.

    I thought it was rather cruel to take Hiro away from her like that.
    And I suppose that she recognized him in the diner. But pretended not to. And also specifically acted to not save her life.
    Why?
    Because if she hadn't died, then Hiro would never have travelled back to save her. And to love her. And for her to love.
    Ah. The tear-jerker.



    Anyway.
    Interesting how the plot lines are thickening.

    Claire's father is now no longer necessarily evil.

    And Sylar's motivations become clear. As do Mohinder's father's involvement with Sylar's depredations.

    I conjecture that the devastation of the city takes place after Sylar eats nuclear boy's brain.
     
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  3. riku_124 High School Smoker Registered Senior Member

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    604
    i wanto to see this deep plot twist that they talked about in the "screans from the next episode" kind of thing any guesses?
     
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  5. fLuX Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    109
    Hiro's Abilities

    Here we deal with some interesting theories of fictional time travel, considering the show has yet to really reveal the dynamics of Hiro's powers. So we don't really know how they perceive the space time continuum.

    Up until the last episode it was vague, but something happened that caught my eye. Hiro was pulled from his position and returned to the most present form of his own time line. That is very much like the Morphail Effect, which comes from a series of sci fi books by Michael Moorcock. It basically states that a traveler can only do so depending on their genetic structure(the RNA symbol that is seen multiple times throughout the show could hint to this) and that its temporary. Now while we don't know how long Hiro can stay in the past or future, we can't decide it a similarity yet. But this rule also states that any attempt to change the past will cause the person to be pulled back to the furthest most point of their own time line.


    So the theory isn't right on target, but there's such an abundance of time travel "time line rules" and theories that I don't have time currently to type them all out. Anyway, just a few of my own thoughts and speculations, I could be totally wrong.
     
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  7. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    9,072
    I thought Hiro was going to stay in the past, and live in Texas for 6 months and have adventures with the waitress all the while learning English. Then walk on Ando who had been waiting for him.

    It turns out that he worked at the restaurant for awhile, using his powers in ways that make absolutely no sense.
    How did he get the food for those people at the table?
    Where did all the bloody origami cranes come from?
    And how did he know that tomorrow tha swarrow will sray the dragon?
     
  8. fLuX Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    109
    Well..

    I half expected that to happen as well. As far as using his powers in ways that didn't make sense, sure he did.

    Not only can he teleport into the future or past, but he can shift himself(or makes it appear he can)just outside of the continuum's reach of time, and how it affects 3 dimensional beings. We see this as him "slowing time down". He shifted himself out of time's reach, so to speak, and then when time was "frozen"(using the term VERY losely here)he teleports to some flower shop, gets some flowers, then gives the people their food. He used the same trick when he put the oragami birds everywhere. He mentioned oragami to charlie, she responded, and before she could say much more, he had already "stopped" time again and sat down and made everyone of those things. We see all of this from her eyes, so she blinks, and it looks like everything just happens at light speed.


    Refer back to an earlier episode, when he helps Ando cheat in gambling. Only in that episode we were looking at his powers from -his- point of view. Its like Hiro just presses pause on a video game and hacks it, and then unpauses it.
     
  9. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    There are two black people involved, and one of them may be the smartest of the group.
     
  10. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    9,686
    I'm guessing you're talking about the boy?
    I don't know if he's really the smartest, his talent seems to be fixing things. This doesn't necessarily imply intelligence. If he had to reason it out, then it'd be intelligence. He has a shortcut. Super powers.

    Interestingly, it would appear that Sylar's original power is the same thing. This insight into the operation of technology (also possibly into other things, biological for instance).
    A shame that the professor didn't realize this and instead marginalized the poor guy so much that he had a nervous breakdown. I mean, it was pretty damned obvious, wasn't it?

    I wonder if Sylar even realizes that he did have an original talent? Perhaps it would be a way of redeeming him.
     
  11. fLuX Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    109
    The boy doesn't actually "fix" things per say like Sylar does. Sylar cannot manipulate things, he gets images of things in his head if he senses something isn't functioning properly, and if he can open something up and analyze it, he can understand it as well. Its like his ability to learn and apply what he does has been amplified by about a million. I believe Sylar realized this first when he cracked Brian's head open and learned to use limited psi to give himself telekinesis.

    As for the boy, his power has more to do with controlling technology. He doesn't really need to open things up and tinker with them. In a previous episode he fixed a pay phone simply by touching it, Sylar would have had to open it up, study it, and then used tools to repair it. I think the kid has some power that goes in the direction of "cyerspace" manipulation. Imagine controlling the internet o_o.
     
  12. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,686
    Ah.
    Good point.
    I had sorta fallen into the assumption that he was eating their brains to absorb their power. Reminds me of an old episode of Friday the 13th The Series back in the day.
    But, you're probably right. He doesn't eat them. He examines them and gains an understanding.
    However, the question then becomes how is it that he affects his own neural makeup. This is assuming that the talents come about from some type of neural wiring. For how else could he see them in the construction of a dead brain?

    I suppose after gaining telekinesis, he could use this to alter his neuronal pathways, dangerous, but possible. But what about the first?

    Perhaps simply understanding them in a strong enough fashion is enough to begin the neuronal process (which is how learning works) which is then strengthened through practice in a Hebbian fashion?
    Sounds like a good enough hypothesis for the moment.

    He cracked open that laptop awfully fast.
     
  13. draqon Banned Banned

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    35,006
    I saw it, I loved it 2.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  14. fLuX Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    109
    Yeah Nexus you're right on both accounts. I didn't even consider the neural make up of his brain and the requirements to alter such to learn at such rates. Perhaps his ability is innate? That would be very interesting, what if learning things the way he does, is as natural to him as breathing? So the moment he inspects the object of desire, his brain somehow copies another's own neuro-structure. My knowledge in the area is limited, I haven't quite taken that class yet.

    And yes he did open it up pretty fast. Hm. Perhaps he was simply intrigued by it and wanted to tinker with it for fun. Or maybe that was the origin of his understanding of technology.

    There's so many things they aren't telling us yet. Although, i wouldn't be suprised if it had something to do with the fact that maybe they aren't quite sure how to explain things in detail like that. My favorite character is Hiro, I myself am very interested in space-time theories. I'm eagerly awaiting more information on him as well.

    Have you notied the RNA symbol that continues to appear throughout the show?
     
  15. riku_124 High School Smoker Registered Senior Member

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    604
    if syler just studies the braine why are the brianesm issing after wards?

    the lady at the CIA or whatever was telling Mr. I can read your thoughts about how cases with brains misisng is scaring her

    if he jsut needs to study them, wouldnt he just open them up and leave after he studied it? that way he wouldnt risk damaging the brain
     
  16. Thixotropic Registered Member

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    17
    Yes depending on what he needs to do to/with the brain he could just leave it
    but sylair wants to be unique. So by leaving any part of the brain he is giving a mutant with a similar ability a chance to be just like him.
     
  17. riku_124 High School Smoker Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    604
    good point thixotropic

    another valid good question is why did syler kill the docter who was looking for the secial people......

    wouldnt it be much easier to just follow the docter and kill the special people , like syler siad " well find htem together or whatever.......


    dr bennet doesent seem so evil anymore, he knew aobut clair all along XD
     
  18. Thixotropic Registered Member

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    17
    Not really not when your power is to be able to look at something and understand how it works remember sylar got to look at the doctors wall and sylar had the same wall in his apt. when it was found.
     
  19. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    1. How did those people get the food?
    2. He must have stolen those flowers.
    3. Where the hell did he steal all of those paper cranes? You are saying he paused time. Stole a bunch of paper. Then sat there all day making cranes.


    You mean the human token?


    Micah is super smart, but not superhuman smart.
    Sylar and Micah do not have the same powers. Sylar has some sort of sense. It appears he can sense anomolies. I still don't really know how he became telekinetic or what that has to do with eating brains. Or If he inherited other powers. Or why he keeps killing people. He has never displayed any powers other than tk in action.
     
  20. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    They still never explained how Mr. Bennet found Claire, met Haitian Thug, and what he his intentions are for mutants. Perhaps the reason he keeps kidnapping mutants, messing with their heads, then releasing them is to save them from Sylar. Bennet is evil though. I'm sure more about him will unfold.
     
  21. fLuX Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    109
    Okay, I'll be more specific this time. Time is relative. So in the world of fiction, this idea is stretched. Since time is relative, if someone like Hiro could say, "pause" time for everyone around him, then time stops for them, while he keeps aging at his normal rate. So, he paused time, gave the people their food, yes spent ALL day making cranes, and he stole flowers. So yes.


    And sylar has a power. That's how he was fixing those watches so well. Sylar has the ability to understand things and learn at an alarming rate. If he can see how something works, he can replicate it. We saw him recognize the talent in Brian's brain.
     
  22. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    9,072
    What you are talking about makes no sense.
    You have not explained anything that we all already know.
    All you are saying is that he stopped time so he could do stuff.
    I don't see anything beyond that, so what is your point?
    The problem of the flowers, the food for the customers, and the cranes still remains.

    You cannot purchase flowers when time is stopped. People that are frozen in time cannot sell you flowers.

    You cannot give people food when time is stopped. People that are frozen in time cannot accpet the food.

    You can make thousands of paper cranes and put them up when time is stopped. It is just an impractical pointless method of demonstrating your super powers.
     
  23. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,686
    Heh.

    Yes. He stopped time.
    Yes. He then stole the flowers while time was stopped. This was a good observation on your part. He couldn't have bought them. So he must have stole them.
    He also arranged them? I suppose some ready made arrangements might have been available.
    Not very hero-like...
    But nevertheless, this is what he did.

    Yes. He stopped time. And moved the plates from the serving window to the table.
    True, the people should have noticed that the plates just appeared at their table without ever being served, but this was just glossed over with no explanation.
    A bit of suspension of disbelief is necessary.

    Yes. He stopped time. While time was stopped, he folded 1000 paper cranes. He then hung these cranes all over the diner. This is the most unparadoxical manifestation of his powers as it required no theft (which is unhero-like) and it requires no suspension of disbelief as only the girl was around to witness the strange appearance, and she was meant to.

    As to it being impractical and pointless. Why?
    How would you do it?
    Seems like a good a way to prove your point as any other to me.
     

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