Health Care Bill Debate

Discussion in 'Politics' started by madanthonywayne, Aug 5, 2009.

  1. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    Grass Roots Fury Over Obama Care

    As our hard working congressmen and Senators make their way home, they are being greeted with open arms by a constituency well pleased with their efforts. They wish. What is actually happening is they are being berated and shouted down all over the country as the grassroots reacts to Obama's attempt to cram his health plan down our throats, among other things.
    Sen Spectre
    Congressman Tim Biship gets an earfull:
    Rep Biship's troubles continue:
    Obamacare shouted down in Ohio

    Angry protesters shouted down Democrats at public events from Texas to Pennsylvania over the weekend,,,,,,,, In Austin, Texas, Rep. Lloyd Doggett was drowned out by a group of noisy, sign-waving demonstrators who shouted, “Just say no” as he tried to talk about health care reform.

    In Morrisville, Pa., Rep. Patrick Murphy was forced to scrap plans for a one-on-one meet-the-congressman session when people in the crowd started shouting. Murphy switched to a town hall format mid-event and even then had to ask the audience at times to “be respectful.”

    And at a health care event in Philadelphia, Sen. Arlen Specter (D-Pa.) and Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius were repeatedly interrupted by booing and heckling. “We can shout at one another, or we can leave the stage,” Sebelius said at one point. “It’s up to you.”

    For Democrats, that’s precisely the problem: Their ability to make their case on health care at public events during the August recess is mostly in the hands of the people who turn out for the events. And if those people want to be disruptive — especially en masse — there’s not much the Democrats can do about it.

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  3. Killjoy Propelling The Farce!! Valued Senior Member

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  5. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

    And we have the answer to Joe Pistole's thread asking what happened to the tea baggers?

    Do these guys actually have anything substantive to say, or are they simply shouting "NO NO NO NO NO NO" like a seven year old that doesn't want to go to bed?
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  7. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    What you're forgetting is:

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  8. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    More lies? I guess we should have expected that.

    Yes, we can always count on you.

    The angry-mob style protesters who have infiltrated town halls around the country are the non-organic product of "tea-baggers," "birthers," and the conservative fringe, two Senate Democratic leaders said Tuesday.

    Speaking outside the White House after meeting with President Obama, Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois and Chuck Schumer of New York both dismissed the significance of boisterous protesters who have been interrupting Democratic lawmakers' events.

    "It is a small fringe group," Schumer told the Huffington Post, "and if we let a small group of people who want to monopolize the conversation and not listen to the facts win, you may as well hang it up."

    "These town hall meetings have been orchestrated by the tea baggers and the birthers to just be a free-for-alls, make a lot of noise, go on YouTube and show discord," said Durbin. "I mean that is what they are determined to do. But that is not going to accomplish what we need to accomplish: real health care reform" ....

    .... The remarks made by the two Senate Democrats reflect the overall message coming from the White House and Democratic Party. Asked during the press briefing on Tuesday whether he thought the town hall protests were fabricated chaos from the insurance and private health care industry, Press Secretary Robert Gibbs responded: "Some of it is, yes."

    "In fact I think you have had groups today, Conservatives for Patients Rights, that have bragged about organizing and manufacturing that anger," Gibbs said.


    And Conservatives for Patients' Rights?

    Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, the operation that’s running a national campaign against a public health care option, is now publicly taking credit for helping gin up the sometimes-rowdy outbursts targeting House Dems at town hall meetings around the country, raising questions about their spontaneity.

    CPR is the group headed by controversial former hospitals exec Rick Scott that’s spending millions on ads attacking reform in all sorts of lurid ways, a campaign that’s being handled by the same P.R. mavens behind the Swift Boat Vets.

    In response to my questions, a spokesman for the group confirmed that it has undertaken a concerted effort to get people out to the town hall meetings to protest reform. The spokesperson, Brian Burgess, confirmed that CPR is emailing out “town hall alert” flyers, and schedules of town hall meetings, to its mailing list.

    These efforts — combined with CPR’s effort to enlist Tea Party-ers, as reported yesterday by TPM — provide a glimpse into the ways anti-reform groups are trying to create a sense of public momentum in their favor.

    CPR spokesman Burgess confirmed that the group had set up a list serv designed to reach out to “third party groups” involved in the health care fight, including the Tea Party activists. And in a statement emailed to me, Scott, who was ousted as a health-care exec amid a 1990s fraud probe, took credit for the town hall showings.

    “We have invested a lot of time, energy and resources into educating Americans over the past several months about the dangers of government-run health care and I think we’re seeing some of the fruits of that campaign,” Scott said, though he claimed outrage was spontaneous.


    The only "grass roots" thing taking place here is more paranoid, anti-Obama obstructionism.

    These teabaggers disrupting congressional town halls is just a spontaneous groundswell of populist opposition to health care reform, right? Riiiight.

    On Friday, July 24, a representative of Conservatives for Patients Rights--the anti-health care reform group run by disgraced hospital executive Rick Scott, in conjunction with the message men behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth--sent an email to a list serve (called the Tea Party Patriots Health Care Reform Committee) containing a spreadsheet that lists over one hundred congressional town halls from late July into September.

    The email from CPR to tea baggers suggests that, though conservatives portray the tea bagger disruptions as symptoms of a populist rebellion roiling unprompted through key districts around the country, they have to a great extent been orchestrated by anti-health care reform groups financed by industry. (CPR did not immediately respond to a request for comment.)

    That email predates by about a week a recent flurry of events at which Democratic members of Congress have been accosted and harassed by anti-health care reform tea party protesters. But beyond putting those spectacles, now receiving wide play on cable news, into a fresh light, it also provides a window into the tea party protesters' organizing infrastructure, which, like so much political organizing today, occurs in private email list serves.


    I find it ironic that a "grass roots" movement worried about government in healthcare would rally behind a former business partner of President George W. Bush who was ousted from his own chain of hospitals after the organization got busted in a broad Medicare fraud scheme that would eventually cost it $1.7 billion in civil and criminal penalties.

    The effort is being coordinated by Creative Response Concepts, a high-profile PR firm that spearheaded the infamous Swift Boat attacks against Sen. John Kerry in the 2004 election. Its client list includes the RNC, the National Republican Congressional Committee, National Republican Senatorial Committee, Christian Coalition, National Taxpayers Union, Media Research Center, and Regnery Publishers. Through the same office telephone number, you can also contact the Judicial Confirmation Network, whose website is run by Campaign Solutons, a Republican campaign consulting firm enlisted by the RNC, NRCC, and Bush-Cheney '04.

    Yeah, real grass roots. Yet, ironically—perhaps predictably—as these facts emerge for widespread public consideration, here comes Madanthonywayne crowing about "Grass Roots Fury Over Obama Care".

    It's a con job.


    Stein, Sam. "Durbin, Schumer: Town Hall Protesters Are 'Birthers' 'Tea Baggers,' And 'Fringe'". Huffington Post. August 4, 2009. August 4, 2009.

    Sargent, Greg. "Anti-Reform Group Takes Credit For Helping Gin Up Town Hall Rallies". The Plum Line. August 4, 2009. August 4, 2009.

    Beutler, Brian. "Inside The Tea Partiers Anti-Health Care Organizing Campaign". Talking Points Memo. August 3, 2004. August 4, 2009.

    "Rick Scott". SourceWatch. 2009. August 4, 2009.

    "Creative Response Concepts". SourceWatch. 2009. August 4, 2009.

    "Judicial Confirmation Network". SourceWatch. 2009. August 4, 2009.

    "Donatelli Group". SourceWatch. 2009. August 4, 2009.
  10. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

  11. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    We deserve affordable health care. The Republicans always use this phoney grass roots shit. They take care of the corporations and the corporations take care of them. It's a nasty circle and few Americans benefit.
  12. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    Did you watch any of the videos? It certainly appeared as if the vast majority of the crowd in each case was opposed to Obama's policies. Was everyone at these meetings some kind of secret Republican Operative? If that's true, why is support for Obama CAre dropping in the polls? Why were the Democrats, with iron clad control of both houses of congress; unable to pass a bill?

    There is a backlash to Obama's radical shift to the left brewing in this country. If the Republicans can halfway get their act together, 2010 will be 1994 all over again.
  13. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

    What's laughable to me is that I'm sure many of these "protesters" would potentially benefit from the proposed reforms. They are protesting against something that would benefit them because they are angry that our president is black (not the word that they would use).

    Others might not see the link, but I'm reminded of the 2004 Republican convention, when they were making sport of Kerry's Purple Heart by wearing Band Aid bandages with a small heart drawn on them. Imagine if the Democrats had done something like that to make fun of McCain in 2008! I think Limbaugh would have exploded, and the vitriol from Republicans would have been epic. But it's ok when they do it.
  14. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

    Two can play at that game.

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  15. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    Sure, sure. But it's really only applicable to the party in power. Plus, the joke sort of looses it's punch the second time around, wouldn't you say?
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Keep on with the horsepucky, sir

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    Well ...

    Sen. Spectre — A coordinated hit by organized protesters.
    Tim Bishop — A propaganda piece centered around an organized demonstration. Protest rhetoric is composed of talking points, not real concerns. Indeed, they don't even want the Congressman to answer them.
    Ohio — More coordinated protest.​

    There's nothing impressive there. In the days when liberals and leftists did this sort of thing, it wasn't hailed as "grass roots", but rather denounced as disrespectful. These people aren't interested in a dialogue. They're just turning out to shout and scream and feel better about themselves.

    So those are the people who turned out for the meetings. Civic participation has never been a strong suit of Americans. And, hey, with the Party calling up its list of incoherent activists, we can expect a strong turnout from the crowd that opposes Obama because he's not a white Republican.

    There's not much of a secret about it. Geez, you didn't even have to click the links I provided. It was in the excerpts. Did you bother reading those?

    Two general reasons:

    (1) Congress is involved, which damages people's enthusiasm for just about anything.
    (2) The GOP is winning the propaganda war at present, which is to be expected to some degree since their argument is the pabulum-simple appeal to emotion.​

    I'm sure someone as well-informed as you is aware of the term "Blue Dog".

    Radical? He won the election, and his only deviations from campaign rhetoric so far have been to the right. Your idea of a "radical shift to the left" is something of a fantasy.

    True enough. And maybe this time they can finish the job of destroying the nation. Their failure to do so last time seems to bother them considerably.
  17. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

    More so to the republican party, since their comparison to the oppression in Iran.
    All parties would call each other fascist. I myself however, have noticed that there is a lot less credibility when the GOP does it.
  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Sweet Jesus, are these people fucking serious?!

    As usual, you're just a bit behind.

    New Rule: If the Republicans really want to approve a measure officially renaming the Democrats the "Nationalist Socialist Democrat Party," then the Democrats get to rename the Republicans the "Sweet Jesus, Are These People Fucking Serious?!" Party.



    Maher, Bill. "New Rules". Real Time With Bill Maher. HBO, New York. May 22, 2009. August 4, 2009.
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    As has been pointed out earlier this is just round II of the teabaggers. These folks are rude inconsiderate jerks. One would think that they would have the common courtesy of allowing others witih differing views or legitimate questions to have their time and be able to voice their questions or concerns. But such is not the case with the teabaggers. Teabaggers have ZERO respect for any opinion other than their own.

    And guess who is feeding them, the Republican Party and their special interest sponsors.
  20. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Geez, Joe, ya' mean like ...protestors? Like the protestors who gathered and protested the war and such under President Bush?

    Ahh, but you were all for those "..rud inconsiderate jerks", weren't you? ..LOL!

    What is this ....One person's "rude, inconsiderate jerk" is another person's "freedom fighter"? ...LOL!

    Baron Max
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Is that right Baron, I don't recall ever seeing meetings beng stuffed with rude obnoxious people sponsored by special interest money protesting the war in Afganistan or Iraq.
  22. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

    There is a very sharp difference between people who have something to say, and questions to ask, Vs. a group whose sole purpose is to disrupt a meeting, and prevent any meaningful dialogue or dissemination of information. I'm sure those who were in attendance and had questions that they wanted to ask thought quite poorly of these braying jack asses.
  23. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

    Nope. Just a bunch of rude, inconsiderate jerks. Only other rude, inconsiderate jerks would call these idiots freedom fighters.
    But that's expected.

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