Hd Dvd --- R.i.p.

Discussion in 'Computer Science & Culture' started by Syzygys, Feb 20, 2008.

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  1. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe only for files you don't care much about that others could get their hands on them, and of course if you don't mind not being able to access your files sometimes, and not really having control over them.

    And books don't rot if properly stored.
    Reformatting is not needed really.
     
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  3. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Rubbish, there will always be hard-drives as cheap redundancy systems. The middle ground between long term storage and short term storage.

    Of course it's more likely that the internet's next evolution will be about being a shared media library, where things can be downloaded and used and then deleted at whim as many times as they are required by the end consumer/user. (Basically they'll just be a Database file identifying what software/Media you have purchased the right to use and you'll be able to download when and where you need it, in what ever format you require for the product you intend to use it with. i.e. Why download a HD version of a film for playing on a PDA/Mobile phone if the screen itself can't deal with all the extra pixels? Then don't download the version available for that screen format.)

    Printing countless numbers of CD's/DVD's and other formats is just an increase in waste products as those formats change over the years and become obsolete at the drop of a hat. Harddrives have been with us for decades, Yes there are people making solid state/Spin drives however the problem with them is they will be expensive for at least two decades until the prices comedown.
     
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  5. John99 Banned Banned

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    First thing to consider is that all these manufacturers work together- consortium. They certainly dont work against each other.

    As for myself, i have first generation of DVD player to hit the market. It is a Sony DVP-S507P, since it is like 10 years old and still working and i own many dvd's i see no reason do get HD-dvd because all my movies are wide screen and look great on a plasma.

    The problem with hard drives is that they fail also and if one fails you lose ALL the data not just one DVD. And now you are getting into the area of recording and the DRM bs nightmare involved with that.
     
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  7. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Aye they do fail, however the way I see them used in the future is not a Long term way of storing media/software but a Mid/short-term solution. Having archives online that allow access to copies at any time means there is no constraint on formats, sizes, platforms it's just about Bandwidth and how to access your temporary storage media for the duration of the time you intend to view/use your media/software.
     
  8. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Really? That's what I thought, when I bought my first Walkman, or first CD player. That movement is necessery for transfering data.

    Then we have now UBS sticks and memory cars, and suddenly spinning is not so necessery!!! We could build a computer without moving parts, except for the fan!! I don't use more than 20 Giga in my computer, and we now have 8 G memorycards!

    Stick a couple of those memorycards into the new computers instead of the harddrive, and there you go....
     
  9. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    It's always economics, not whatever has the beefier specs. The movie companies that choose to support one format or the other has a lot to say in it. The less expensive the parts play a role in it as well for the consumer. All of Sony's higher-def discs have failed in the past, their betamax, better tapes, better CDs, and better DVDs. I expect both HD-DVD and Blu-ray to fail because there isn't as big a jump as it was from VHS to DVD and tape to CD. What'll win are files, no disc.

    Yup, that's what I'm saying. Thanks to internet businesses improving, most people having faster internet connections which will only improve over time (ever see the speed tests done in Switzerland?), so many people owning memory devices such as iPods, gigabyte cellphones, DS/PSP, usb cards, etc etc, they're already used to and don't like lugging around copies. Why carry a couple folders of CD discs when you have it all on one tiny device that can plug into headphones, your car, other people's homes and computers, etc? I mean, I love my DVDs and am sort of a collector, and I like having em shown in my bookshelves in my movie/gaming area, but that's all wasted space especially since I have a ton of DVDs and music on my computer as well. So much easier just selecting a movie with a remote and hitting play without having to get off the couch.

    And that was before the internet. Downloadable content is the future. Heck, you can get terrabyte hard drives for under $300 and that'll hold 125 8GB DVDs right there -- almost double that for all the 4GB ones. Just the money saved buying a cheaper file online over a disc in a store will quickly save you that much money for one.

    - N
     
  10. Dr Mabuse Percipient Thaumaturgist Registered Senior Member

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    fellas there are 2.5 terabyte solid state drives...

    2,500 gigs...

    it will be a while before hard drives are essentially outmoded completely... but they will be

    solid state storage has been around in the enterprise for years...
     
  11. kmguru Staff Member

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    By this time next year, you should be able to buy HD of a terabyte size as you buy 500 GB today. In next 3 years your family may need atleast 5 terabytes of space to store all the crap they will generate and download.

    I doubt solid state can compete that with price...
     
  12. Dr Mabuse Percipient Thaumaturgist Registered Senior Member

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    there are already terabyte hard drives at pretty good prices...

    there are already PCs for sale with 4 terabytes or more of storage...

    solid state memory prices will drop as rapidly as the adoption of the technology allows...

    i remember when 4 megs of ram cost more than a PC does today... not that long ago...
     
  13. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    People are making good points here about films likely to be available online as the future. But I think it will be long way of yet as the industry doesn't not want to lose revenue.

    MP3 have been available for download for years now only because their hand was forced by pirates. Maybe the industry will now force out blueray aggressively so that people with the player will be committed to buy hard copy's for the near future. So maybe blueray will keep things alive for another generation but after that it will be downloads.
     
  14. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Expert answers questions about the format war:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/02/19/DI2008021901713.html

    If one wants to buy a Blu-Ray player you might want to wait a bit, because one disadvantage is that they are not upgradable, except the Playstation. Also there biggest competition is going to be downloads and not an other format...


    I am not arguing the download advantage. I am arguing that it will be done to a spinning harddrive. You know how much space is 100 little memorycards? I actually wonder if the new Apple thin McBook has a traditional harddrive in it...

    Hey here is an idea: What if the future will be excess to huge databases, instead of millions of downloads? This way we only need a huge database (like Napster was) and access to it, and we don't have to store all those movies individually on our computers. If you are watching it from home, and you have a fast internet anyway, it doesn't matter where the actual movie is...The advantage is if my computer crashes, I don't lose anything, because my new computer has the same access. Also if I travel, I only need to take my password with me...Another advantage is that they don't have to worry about copyrights, because they just broadcast the movie, but don't let you store it...

    P.S.: Actually, Comcast's OnDemand service is pretty much like this already...
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2008
  15. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    A great disadvantage is that you don't have control over your content.
     
  16. kmguru Staff Member

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    There are issues and solutions on several front...

    The Hard Drive manufacturers have a vested interest to keep the vast storage ahead of the solid state devices and price to match.

    A million download at one time still means a million files moving through the network. I do not think technology has been developed where your computer can just grab a copy of only one file, at the local router, (the packets) as the server pushes that file only once . EMC was doing that research a while ago, but I have not heard anything new.

    The politicians in USA has been hesitant to upgrade the network infrastructure like the Expressway was done for the automobiles and like the Koreans have already done.

    There is an advantage to selling discreet discs. If the files are in a downloadable format, most people will get the top 2000 out of 100,000+ titles. That means less sales. That is why in music there are usually 2 or 3 good songs in an album in a CD. But in the download, legal or illegal, you pick the best ones.

    May be someday, buffet style will come to entertainment...But that has to pass the greedy front gates of the owners.

    Here is one of a good solution in music. Usuong a XM type service one should be able to store the music that you are listening say about 40GB worth. Then you can listen your selection when you want and recycle your stuff. I think there was such a device sold in Canada.

    Just some thoughts...
     
  17. John99 Banned Banned

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    That would be cool, i was not thinking of that. I used to have satellite and it would update its software automatically with a progress bar, first time i saw that was pretty amazing.

    One problem with getting movies from a server is the file sizes @ 9GB for standard def to 15gig for hd so the HD is much less compressed and that woud require a lot of processing power on servers and there are so many movies that to encode them all to HD would be some task. Although right now i can watch 'on demand' movies with pause and rewind functions- is there anything like that in Europe? Still the selection is limited. The other day i bought a dvd made in china (legally too) for .99 and it was actually good quality. Bet no one here has heard of that one.
     
  18. I can't wait to see the other alternative. Many engineers/scientists don't like this trend.
    Whereas, like open source code and such are trying to come up with alternatives. They're wanting a media that is a little more easy on the wallet, and just as high quality.

    It's doable, since these giants spend about 10-15% suppressing such efforts, which you pay for, by the way.

    There's some talk that current CD/DVD media can be manipulated in densities and the reading device, also. So that less 'intense' equipment can be used. And currently running facilities can just upgrade to produce it.

    I here ranges from 20-45GB or there abouts. Which would be a significant jump, at a much more affordable rate. And, as a nice touch, as opposed to this frenzy of getting dropped and looking at coasters/dust collectors; firmware updates allow for room for expansion.
     
  19. madanthonywayne Morning in America Staff Member

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    Do you mean they've ceased production of HD-DVD's? I've never watched an HD or Blue-ray DVD, but I believe my Xbox 360 is an HD DVD player. Either way, regular DVD's seem just fine to me.
     
  20. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Offtopic, but I love the way how somebody changed capitalization in the thread title. Of course using capital letters was grammatically correct, but must be against Forum policies...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    Look up The Venice Project, from the guys of Kazaa and Skype. They're trying to create their own free TV/movie file-sharing/streaming network.

    That's pretty much the same thing I was referring to, everything being online with faster connections coming up. I only mentioned hard drives as a current example since there aren't many streaming sites due to current connection speeds and certain companies not wanting that sorta thing to happen right now, but you can still currently put all your movies on a hard drive. And streaming movies aren't gonna happen in the U.S. for quite some time because our country is so big that our wi-fi and cell networks suck compared to Japan and Europe. A hard drive MP3 player is going to trump a streamed version of it on our slow wi-fi/cell connections for our portable devices. 3G speeds are still slow, although an improvement and even sitting at a wi-fi node isn't as great as being home. There's always gonna be a need for hard drives and that's basically what a DVD disc is, but it's a more compact medium with a higher capacity perfect for homes. Heck, if people hate giving up their DVD hard copies for being able to actually own a copy yourself, if you think downloading it onto a hard drive which still gives you a copy is bad, you're gonna hate streaming networks as everything will rely on that company. If they boost the costs or their network goes down for a couple days, everything is gone period where before having a copy on your computer, you can still watch it whenever you want, it just doesn't come with a cool boxed cover like a DVD.

    It is only if you bought the HD-DVD drive add-on, which you have to purchase seperately, and is connected by a cord like an external hard drive, it's not built into the machine.

    - N
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2008
  22. John99 Banned Banned

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    Take into consideration that ALL content on the web is highly compressed down to 10% or usually less than original file size. Did any of you guys know that youtube is mono track only? Even if it could work from an environmental standopint i don think it is any better than buying single disks because the resources needed to run the servers- that allways need to be on and the sheer number needed for uncompressed HD content would be incredible considering billions of users...good luck with that.
     
  23. dsdsds Valued Senior Member

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    yes, except which person, corporation, or government will control these "huge" databases?
     
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