Have you existed before?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by birch, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Nope. In fact, my parents had two other children. Neither of which is me.
     
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  3. river

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    Doing regressive hypnotherapy should be a start .
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Anil Seth said it correctly. our minds can only make best guesses.
    I disagree, the very problem is that your sense of cohesion and continuity is not preserved, unders such circumstances.
    You can hardly say that a once sane You suddenly becomes an insane You.

    There is an documented story of an autistic girl was committed to an institute for the incurable insane, until she got access to a computer and now tours the world holding lectures about the prison autistic people can find themselves in. She has an IQ of 150. Can you even imagine being locked up with actually incurable insane people and not being able to express you deep thoughts. Just like being in solitary confinement, for 30 years!
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes , they may have some similarities in common, but each is a distinct person .
     
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    So, still me, then.
     
  9. birch Valued Senior Member

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    i find it oddly rude how the progression of life is in the universe. it does not ask your permission to exist at all. you just spring into existence without your consent. it kind of makes everyone a victim in some way, whether one will be blessed or not. when i notice how animals have offspring and their fate is just to be slaughtered and eaten is hideously evil to me. they would never agree to it if they knew but it's because they don't know; they are oblivious and naive.

    this seems inherently wrong or backwards to me.

    for me personally, even if hypothetically reincarnation and afterlife exists and if i could even have a choice to come back here with the promise of wealth etc or a good life, i would refuse it still. that is because the whole system is contradictory to my values which is another mystery. i just would not be genuinely and completely okay as in my conscience knowing the whole thing is actually unfair.

    besides, there is nothing here worth any of it's physical accruements or power over others etc. that's subpar or gross. the physical life is really base anyways. while you are here you have to manage and try to live as best you can but to choose it is something else entirely.

    hypothetically, one could experience the physical existence in a week or two and miss nothing of real value by not existing: killing, eating, defecating, sex, entertainment distraction. then repeat working to eat, defecate etc are nothing to actually sign up your life for. ugh!

    this universe is weird and irrational itself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  10. river

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    I see or read .

    Disagree

    Experience is the evolution of your soul . At least it is from those who have past regression through hypnosis .

    To expand on the latter ;

    Physical , to be physical , is a form that the soul needs to understand physical things and thought .

    To be physical , by the soul , gives also intellect , ideas , thinking upon .

    From Summeria , to the present , ideas grow , mature . Which is what we are doing now , in this day and age .
     
  11. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    Incorrect

    This is just a version of the tree in the forest falling and the question being does it make a sound

    With this question the only thing which becomes absent is perception

    The Universe does not vanish

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  12. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    That statement could fit in a dictionary as a good definition of anthropomorphism

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  13. birch Valued Senior Member

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    and it could still be defined as weird and irrational and arbitrary regardless. either way.
     
  14. birch Valued Senior Member

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    this is my personal view and it's a conceptual one. of course, you make the best you can while you are here but i would not "choose" this type of existence again, if i have a choice hypothetically.
     
  15. Andrew256 Registered Member

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    And I still think that after you cease to exist, you could just spring into existence at random point in the universe just the way you already did in the form of current you. Somehow, it just seems like a more natural concept than "eternal nothingness forever". As I've said in previous posts, the concept of this nothingness seems just less probable.

    Since you can't experience time after death, the whole timespan of the universe and all universes after that would pass in an instant. But, if space-time is infinite, how can infinity pass in an instant? That's just one of many paradoxes about non-existence. A universe where non-existence is impossible, in my opinion, is just more logical.

    And by the "universe" I don't mean just our universe. I also mean the multiverse, and all potential (theoretical) existence of everything beyond, in all possible dimensions, which doesn't even have a proper name.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    This is wishful thinking.

    We are a collection of chemistry (albeit very sophisticated chemistry). There is certainly precedent for chemistry stopping.

    The thing you're struggling with is simply grasping the idea that, like everything else, you are the sum of your biochemistry and its interactions with the environment. If you can let go of the concept of a soul, it'll all make a lot more sense.
     
  17. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    As a nurse / midwife I think I have a fairly good understanding how I and everybody else "just spring into existence" and I'm fairly certain it is not because of a death of some random alien in another Universe

    How would such a process work? What would happen if a dead alien was heading for a womb and coitus becomes coitus interruptus?

    Merry Paganday for tomorrow

    Coffee time

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  18. birch Valued Senior Member

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    though i understand why it's considered logical to just spring into existence/consciousness, against your will and with no choice, it is suspectly illogical to me, even backward.

    it's also illogical that one is built from billions of years of evolution in an intricate bio-symbiosis yet our consciousness is not even aware of it, it has to be investigated and discovered. if that is what you are, then shouldn't you have been aware of it all along? it seems consciousness is somehow separate in some abstract way and organic life is a vessel.

    some people feel like they have been kidnapped, or smuggled/trafficked here and find many things odd or unusual or do not coincide with their makeup.

    and if every part of us was truly a product of this temporal universe, why would anyone have a problem with it? there are some clues when consciousness develops or becomes aware of where they end up and how it operates such as how vegetarians often choose not to eat meat because they dislike and reject the idea of killing another lifeform. there is a 'knowing' that this is wrong, beyond what the circumstances are or dictate. this is inherently antithetical to the process of nature "here" as we know it.

    actually, you can know it from the time you are born onwards as you discover what an evil system nature is, all the while being curiously incongruent to your internal values. and everyone and every part of us is a product of this universe, as in inherently? i think not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017
  19. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    Consciousness is a PROCESS not a INGREDIENT
    It only starts operating once the ingredients (the brain neurones) start cooking (processing information)

    Intuition? Hunch?

    Knowing implies understanding. If you don't "know" why you feel then you don't understand. That's OK because there is a lot you don't know about your body this very. You are unaware of your heart beat (until I just drew your attention to it). Even then you might not feel it until you place your hand over it to really feel it.

    Even more so, you do not have access to your subconscious. That region does a lot of work and some of it leaks into the concessness without you knowing and becomes the "flash of inspiration" and many of the other oddities of the brain

    Happy Paganday tomorrow

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  20. birch Valued Senior Member

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    the overall point i was trying to make is there is a difference between a circumstantial truth and an absolute one, or even simply another one. theoretical and abstract math even points (window, clue etc) to this. maybe that's why mathematicians more often go insane or appear to be.

    for instance, the only reason why we are aware of the possibility (and probability) of parallel universes, for example, is because of physics and math, not because there is overwhelming concrete evidence that we experience normally.
     
  21. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    Yes I would agree with you there. The mathematics involved to demonstrate such possibilities are so extreme and convoluted I would contend if you asked a mathematician to write them up on a blackboard, took a photo, asked them to come back next week you would get a different result

    Of course such mathematical musings on probabilities are well outside of Huey Dewey and Louie thought playground it is impossible to make any rational comment on them

    Still it is fun to do so as long as you don't take them serious enough to consider you have cracked the code of the Universe

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  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Or maybe you watch too much TV.
     
  23. Andrew256 Registered Member

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    It certainly seems that way. But I believe the only reason why you can't see this as a possibility is my lack of ability to make a good use of words.

    Sarkus in neighboring thread had put it in an interesting way - there's a consciousness, and there's also a "thing" which differentiates your consciousness from other's. It doesn't matter what this "thing" is (many possibilities have been discussed in this thread), for now it's just a concept.

    Let's look at them as at two different things for a minute. We have no doubt that the process of consciousness emergence tend to repeat itself with every new human born, while their brain develops. What about that "thing" then? Can it also emerge again and do it's differentiation "magic"? After our deaths, our consciousness is gone. But what if that "thing" will differentiate another consciousness again in the same way it did with your consciousness (I use "in the same way" alot, another limitation of my wording I'm afraid).

    Again, the nature of this "thing" is not important - it can be memories, coherence, god, doesn't matter. We just know that your consciousness is differentiated from others so we assume the "thing" does exist.
     

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