# Have you ever noticed?...

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by electrafixtion, Mar 23, 2009.

1. ### stereologistEscapee from Dr MoreauRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
685
That's one down. Wonder how long it takes to figure out the other 4 are fakes or not.

3. ### stereologistEscapee from Dr MoreauRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
685
That's from the Wikipedia on Cooper.

Now remember the claim is not that someone saw a UFO. The claim is that these people saw non human technology. There is a huge difference between a fuzzy video and non human technology.

5. ### stereologistEscapee from Dr MoreauRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
685
Interesting that these astronaut UFO cases have been dismissed by a UFO expert.

Thought these interesting tidbits from around the web. Interesting how misrepresentations get passed around and around.

7. ### stereologistEscapee from Dr MoreauRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
685
I missed walker and Slayton.

Apparently the fabrication has been partially fixed by correcting the name.

He must be including himself.

8. ### leopoldValued Senior Member

Messages:
17,455
the above is EXACTLY why airline pilots and aircraft controllers no longer report sightings.
kehoes book goes into detail about how these people are ridiculed, called deluded, even losing their jobs. why go through all of that when you can keep your mouth shut?

BTW, if you want to refute the posts i've made please do so using the named sighters own words.

Messages:
17,455
10. ### stereologistEscapee from Dr MoreauRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
685
What I posted were not my words but information form the web which is why I placed it in quoted blocks.

I would actually like to thank you for your postings since I had the fun of looking around the web at all sorts of things.

It kind of reminded me of the Bermuda Triangle lore. One person makes a report. Then another person repeats the report. Soon there are many copies of the same report here and there. Was the original story true? No. Does 20 copies of the same story change the veracity of the report? No.

Even a big UFO guy says the astronaut stuff is fiction. The opinions of Allen Hynek should have some sway here, despite the fact that Hynek later on doubted that UFOs were demonstrations of ETs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Allen_Hynek

11. ### leopoldValued Senior Member

Messages:
17,455
an article that anyone can edit?

radar confirmations of sightings is fiction? no, these things are REAL no question about it.

(patiently awaits the ridicule of radar operators)

12. ### stereologistEscapee from Dr MoreauRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
685
I don't buy this conspiracy and pressure to avoid reporting sightings. There are tens of thousands of people aloft in the air over the US on any given day. For each pilot there are dozens to hundreds of people aboard with cameras, cell phone cameras, video cameras, and who knows what else.

They could report. They could be on the news just like the pilot in NJ that saw the UFOs. Hate to be a debunker here but he reported a UFO that turned out to be flares hanging on helium balloons. The UFO expers went there and considered the observations reasonable despite the report by the NJ state troopers that saw flares hanging from balloons.

This is a quote by Edgar Mitchell talking about UFOs and saying as an astronaut he did not see UFOs. These are his words.

This is Mitchell's next statement in the interview. So Mitchell did not see a UFO or non human originated technology. He is reporting a story related to him by someone he trusted.

So I stand by my position that astronauts have not reported UFOs and definitely not nonhuman originated technology.

You know what I like to repeat the liar's phrase. Because it has the initials NOT.

Messages:
17,455

14. ### leopoldValued Senior Member

Messages:
17,455
you should:
To keep this information from the public, officials ridiculed and debunked legitimate sightings, angering some pilots. According to the Newark Star Ledger in 1958, over fifty commercial pilots who had reported sightings, each with at least fifteen years of major airline experience, blasted the policy of censorship and denial as "bordering on the absolutely ridiculous."

These pilots said they were interrogated by the Air Force, sometimes all night long, and then "treated like incompetents and told to keep quiet," according to one pilot. "The Air Force tells you that the thing that paced your plane for 15 minutes was a mirage or a bolt of lightening," he told the Star-Ledger. "Nuts to that. Who needs it?" As a result, many pilots "forget" to report their sightings at all, one pilot said.

According to a 1952 Air Force Status Report on UFOs for the Air Technical Intelligence Center, pilots were so humiliated that one told investigators, "If a space ship flew wing-tip to wing-tip formation with me, I would not report it."
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc3.htm

Messages:
17,455
16. ### phlogisticianBannedBanned

Messages:
10,342
This is my take too. Commercial flights put more people into the air than military flights, and by some margin. Each holidaymaker with a camera, camcorder, or cellphone capable of taking pictures.

If there really were as many 'foo fighters' in the air as reported during WWII, we should have passengers snapping these all the time.

Similarly, if there were as many space oddities out there as allegedly reported by astronauts, all the telescopes pointing upwards would be awash with sightings and data. But maybe, just maybe, combat pilots, suffering stress, don't perceive things the same way as happy holiday makers. Perhaps, test pilots flying experimental rockets, are a little edgy, and their senses deceive them a little.

What we need is non-subjective evidence;

I used to work with a bunch of astronomers, and tecchies that built satellite parts. Our satellites looked outwards. Down the hall was the Earth Observation group, and their satellites looked down. Given that we are constantly looking, in a variety of wavelengths, you'd think we'd see something, if it were to be seen.

Having brushed shoulders with various military types, through work, and family, I know that aircraft are tracked very carefully, so we don't confuse them with threats such as ballistic missiles, or cruise missiles, and escalate a conflict that doesn't exist. It would require all major world powers to collude to cover up the existence of aliens visitation should it be happening, but why would they agree? Wouldn't the former Soviet Union loved to have been able to to tell the American populace it's government were liars, covering up the truth, and so scoring a point for communism? Or vice versa, the USA showing the censorship in a communist state?

The other problem with eye witness testimony, other than stress, is the array of stuff that people report seeing. If eye witness testimony is not approached with a degree of skepticism, we have to start entertaining thoughts that leprechauns, yetis, chupacabras, ghosts, the Loch Ness monster, and the Virgin Mary are real too. People have reported seeing all of them, but which do we believe?

I personally have had an alien abduction experience. It was very scary, freaked me out for some hours afterwards, but one difference with mine to many, is that mine was witnessed. Witnessed NOT happening, as I was dreaming. I had a hypnogogic dream. Usual stuff, strange face at the bottom of the bed, paralysis, fear, and eventually I woke up screaming. Thrashing trying to escape from my abductors, as I regained motor control was witnessed by my partner. Now, I understand these events can evoke strong emotions, and people can be convinced what they have experienced, or witnessed is real, but we are emotional, and not perfectly rational beings.

We need empirical data. Decent quality pictures, and video. Mass sightings without prosaic explanations. Why don't we have any of these? Well, I think we agree on that answer, but the 'I want to believe' crowd don't want thgeir dogma challenged.

17. ### phlogisticianBannedBanned

Messages:
10,342
Not a fan I have to say. I can forgive the original series it's flaws, because it was avant garde, and somewhat naive at the same time. The recent stuff is just lame.

Have to disappoint you there. I'll shovel bullshit wherever I find it.

18. ### stereologistEscapee from Dr MoreauRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
685
My Dad used to tell me, "Just because its in print does not make it true." If Kehoe reports a story it does make that story true even if Kehoe or his readers believe it to be true.

As phlogistician points out, people often think about the US as an isolated entity in the world. Look at the world as a whole. Keeping a secret about UFOs means keeping lots of governments in lock step. In our country it means keeping every new government in lock step.

19. ### stereologistEscapee from Dr MoreauRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
685
It's true anyone can edit most wikis. That's why it has to be taken with a grain of salt. I'm glad that's understood.

Radar confirmations indicate that there is something there besides a visual sighting. That does not mean that the object is alien. The radar operator confirms that a report of an object in the sky can be tracked by radar.

So if someone sees a plane in the sky and reports it as a UFO and someone at a radar confirms that there is a plane in the sky does that makes it a UFO or does that make it a plane and no longer a UFO?

20. ### leopoldValued Senior Member

Messages:
17,455
kehoe wasn't a reporter he was an investigator, he collected evidence.
if his evidence was so mundane why would someone want to steal it?
why would people find it necessary to murder his witnesses?

21. ### phlogisticianBannedBanned

Messages:
10,342
"Capitalizing on the interest, Keyhoe expanded the article into a book, The Flying Saucers Are Real, (1950); it sold over half a million copies in paperback." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Keyhoe)

Ker-Ching! Money to be made peddling UFO myths. 's in his pocket capitalising on B-Movie subjects.

Convenient the 'evidence' was stolen, huh? You'd have thought if it was so important, he'd have xeroxed it.

22. ### leopoldValued Senior Member

Messages:
17,455
it's the flight characteristics that confirms a UFO sighting.
an airplane doesn't operate in space.
an airplane cannot make 90 degree turns without slowing down.
an airplane cannot accelerate to 7000mph in a matter of seconds
our most advanced aircraft cannot perform the maneuvers described by pilots and confirmed by radar.

i believe you understand now why airline pilots will not report sightings.
oh, you seen a bird doing 7000mph.
you must have mistaken venus.
ah, you need a vision test.
would you be willing to subject yourself to that nonsense stereologist?
no, you would take the attitude of the guy above "i don't care if a UFO flew wing tip to wing tip in formation with me, i wouldn't report it".
kehoe documents this debunking of pilots in his book.

BTW, can you post the source of your edgar mitchell quotes in post 109?

23. ### stereologistEscapee from Dr MoreauRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
685
I'll answer my question for you.

Then you have a reason for having no evidence. What is quite interesting is that I found only 1 place discussing murdered UFO researchers.