Have founding fathers really said this?

Discussion in 'History' started by dixonmassey, Jun 28, 2004.

  1. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    2,151
    Or it's forgery? (Citations are found in an agenda-driven web site)


    1778 – Benjamin Franklin’s statement on Jewish immigration at the First Constitutional Convention:

    In what ever country Jews have settled in any great numbers, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded by rejecting its restrictions; have built up a state within a state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal.


    For over 1700 years the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But, gentlemen, did the world today give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some cogent reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other peoples not of their race.

    If you do not exclude them from these United States, in this Constitution, in less than 200 years they will have swarmed in such great numbers that they will dominate and devour the land, and change our form of government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives, our substance and jeopardized our liberty.

    If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendents will be working in the fields to furnish them substance, while they will be in the counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves.

    Jews, gentlemen, are Asiatics, let them be born where they will, or how many generations they are away from Asia, they never will be otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American’s, and will not, even though they live among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots. Jews are a menace to this country if permitted entrance, and should be excluded by the Constitution.”
    ----------------------------------------

    In 1779 George Washington said:

    "It is much lamented, that each State, long ere this has not hunted them down, as pests to society, and the greatest enemies we have to the happiness of America."
     
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  3. Spyke Registered Senior Member

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    It was proven to be a forgery by historians and Franklin biographers years ago. Its forgery date was pinpointed as probably between 1933-38, and possibly being originated by the Nazis, or Nazi sympathizers in the US. Some of the wording used would not have been used in the late 18th century, such as 'homeland', which has really only been used concerning Palestine since the mandate. There is also documentation showing that Franklin had signed a petition supported a Jewish league in Philadelphia, so that doesn't mesh with the anti-Semetic dialogue in that alleged statement.
     
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  5. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    That some mighty farfetched speculation there..
     
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  7. Spyke Registered Senior Member

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    Except that I'm not speculating. It's a myth. Plain and simple.
     
  8. StarOfEight A Man of Taste and Decency Registered Senior Member

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    Did a Google search with "In what ever country Jews have settled in any great numbers, they have lowered its moral tone;" ... brought up the Klan, the National Alliance, and "JewWatch," and a few discussions of anti-Semitism.
     
  9. Brandon9000 Registered Senior Member

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    I've read numerous buiographies of both Franklin and Washington, and not only have I never seen anything of this sort, but it's out of character.
     
  10. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    The reason for persecution of Jews has to do with their refusal to completely assimilate into the dominant culture, and the instinctual distrust built into the human psyche for anyone who is different.
     
  11. Brandon9000 Registered Senior Member

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    I've also read biographies of the Founding Fathers from Gouvernor Morris to John Hancock to Charles Carroll, as well as histories of the revolution both from the American and British points of view, and can't remember any comment like this from anyone involved.
     
  12. LarryC Registered Member

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    I have a PhD in early American history and registered for this forum just to answer this! This bogus Franklin quote first appeared in the 1930s in an American fascist publication. It was quickly debunked by professional historians, but has kept turning up ever since. The Anti-Defamation Leagues gives a history of the quote at http://www.adl.org/special_reports/franklin_prophecy/franklin_intro.asp . The magazine The New Republic had a much better article about this hoax about 5 years ago, but I can't find it online.
     
  13. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Welcome, and thanks for bringing in some sanity, Larry.
     
  14. Spyke Registered Senior Member

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    Interesting. I said basically the same thing Larry did 3 weeks ago and everyone still kept speculating.
     
  15. Rappaccini Redoubtable Registered Senior Member

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    People do like to have their say; this is a forum.

    Hypewaders' statement was off, yes, but is there really need for such defensiveness?
     
  16. StarOfEight A Man of Taste and Decency Registered Senior Member

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    I think everyone agreed with you other than SouthStar.
     
  17. Spyke Registered Senior Member

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    Defensiveness? If I was being defensive, you would have gotten a long diatribe replete with a lot of whining and belligerence, as seems to be the norm on this forum. I was just poking at Hype.
     
  18. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Oy! I'm being persecuted!
     
  19. Working Class Hero Skank Monster Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, i definately wouldnt be surprised if they said that. When Rousseau wrote the Social Contract, he said that civil rights didnt apply to Jews.
     

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