Have all people been born before?

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by Natalie_Nicole, Feb 24, 2013.

?

Do you think all people have been born before?

  1. yes

    29.4%
  2. no

    70.6%
  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,782
    Inherited traits are passed on in our DNA, such as hair color, eye color, etc.

    But each person is unique unto him/herself and can never be duplicated exactly which would have to be the case for being reborn in another body as a copy of a person, even mentally and emotionally. In fact this is the function of evolution. The joining of different DNA insures variety and avoids exact duplication. That is a good thing.

    There are species which clone themselves into identical copies, but none of them are human and even as they are physically the same, their behavior varies from individual to individual.
    The silvery salamander is an example. But then this salamander does not use male sperm and each offspring is female and an exact clone of it's mother.

    As to a spiritual rebirth in a different body, that is already happening, family traditions, environmental demands, societal cultures are all contributing to a duplication of behaviors, but those are always learned, and not inherent at birth or shortly thereafter. Our "persona" is formed by every piece of information we absorb from birth on, this is how the spiritual (mental) information is transferred. It is a function of out "mirror neural network" in the brain. But it starts pretty well as a blank slate except for keeping the body alive (survival).

    But their is no empty mind looking for a soul, or a soul looking for an empty mind. That is a religious assumption, such as possession.

    Besides the argument in the OP is self defeating. Humanity is growing by an exponential function, but if there is a limited number of souls, how does the number of souls increase? It is obvious that there would always be a shortage of souls and then what? Zombies? It is clear that if there are souls, each person has a different soul and new souls are being created all the time. To think there are "super souls" which can transfer into a mind is hubris and speaks of a lack of understanding of the way things work.
     
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  3. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Damn, there you go with reality! Very eloquently stated.
     
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  5. ForrestDean Registered Senior Member

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  7. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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  8. Lakon Valued Senior Member

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    I aked this a while back on this thread. Population has shot up, say 1B to present 7B plus, so where did the extra 6B souls come from ?
     
  9. ForrestDean Registered Senior Member

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    291
    Nowhere. There are no extras. No thing is ever created. There is no limit. Everything and All things already Is.
     
  10. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    2,274
    @Forrest --

    I think what Lakon is saying is that the living outnumber the dead, the idea that the number of people alive today is larger than the number of people who've died throughout history. Personally I'm wary of this argument because any attempt to number the dead, once you get back far enough where such things weren't recorded, is going to rely on some rather iffy assumptions. Needless to say, it's not the route I would take in this discussion.

    I think it goes without saying that this statement is patently false. People make things all the time, new things which have never(in our history) been made before. In fact you're typing on just such a thing.

    However just because things in nature aren't created, doesn't mean they always existed.
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    4,782
    The soul is actually an "emergent property" in a person as they mature, their Potential

    IMO, this entire notion of souls is no more than a term used for a person's inherent or expressed potentials. And if you substitute soul with Potential it all begins to make sense. Even an expression as "unfulfilled soul" can be expressed as "unused potential".

    The term Potential addresses the most fundamental property of the Universe. "That which may become Reality". It must be present as a dreamlike Implicate (and here starts the concept of Soul ), before it can be physically expressed in the Explicate (reality).

    Reincarnation of a soul is one of the explanations from a "spiritual" (pseudo scientific) viewpoints, which of course collapses when it becomes in contradiction with Natural Laws, as in the case here.
     
  12. R1D2 many leagues under the sea. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,300
    answer is no...

    Where do the "spirits" and people all come from? There has to be a beginning, and I am not saying there might be some. That maybe somehow in some way lived a human life and "it" came back somehow to not really be the same person or "spirit" but "essence". There have been some cases I have heard and believe. Some were "victims" in some way and have "dreams". And some have memories. But not everyone and everything IMownHgivenO are we all reborn and regiven a new "form". I have said before I am a christian and even though there are many christian faiths don't believe in how ever you say life form renewal or past lives. I do believe there are souls, and there is a form of heaven and hell. But unlike some christians I don't fully think the soul itself comes back, it moves on to "heaven", and in rare cases the essence and memories somehow get back from heaven.
    There was a boy I heard about he seemed "different" to his parents. And at around age 2 he began playing in a way that did not seem right to his parents. He had dreams, and a military style about him. As time went on his parents decided to seek help. They ended up with a "hypnotist" before the boy was ten. And while the boy was "under" it was discovered why he knew planes and was so different. In this rare case the boy knew some names and he was found to be a WW2 navy pilot that was shot down. The body was buried at sea. The boy while under said that while in heaven he was given a chance to return.
    I have even heard some stories of WW2 victims, and jews that have "came back " that seem very believable. I don't think there are cross life returns in the rare cases.
    And the ones I heard and have thought may be credible. Leads me to assume that it is not immediate.


    (Its 0415am my time)
     
  13. ananymousse Banned Banned

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    31
    Before I was born God gave me the option of being blessed with a good memory or having a large dick.

    I forget which one I chose. (=
     
  14. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    2,826
    Why do you people assume that since we cannot be duplicated in exact copy of ourselves, we cannot exist thus oncemore? Each one of us, changes from our birth to our death to complete transformation. We don't just think and perceive differently, we become a different consciousness altogether. There is no need for exact copy of us in order for us to be who we are. And under the memories, feelings, and perceptions...we are still ourselves, because all of these just shape our persona in this world. The other lives we were shaped differently, with different memories, and etc. But it was still us, we do not remember it, because our bodies are different. A life with memories of past lives would have been a nightmare. This life is a perfect design, it allows us to experience every aspect of the universe from the perception of the universe parts (that allow perception).
     
  15. Arioch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,274
    It's not the lack of exact duplication that causes me to doubt, strongly, the principle of reincarnation. It's the lack of any connection between the "past lives" and the current ones, the lack of anything to pass on after death, and the utter unreliability of human testimonials.

    Think about it, how many people who've supposedly "regressed to a past life" have been kings and queens and other important individuals. How many people have you heard say "yeah, my therapist regressed me and it turns out that I was a plumber in a past life" or "I was Alexander the Great's chief eunuch"? There simply weren't that many kings and queens in history, and I know multiple people who all claim to remember being the same person in a past life.

    But no, we obviously should never doubt anything anyone has to say about spiritual matters, right?

    PS: That last line was sarcasm Forests, in case you missed it.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. entelecheia Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    281
    Hard psy research. There are some paranormal phenomena absolutely connected with the pre-mortal hipothesis: Xenoglossia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoglossy and the knowledge of a secret exotic word written in a hidden paper after a monitored out-of-body session.
     

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