Harry Potter Star Afshan Azad Attacked by Father, Brother in attempted Honor Killing

From a recent book on Islamic jurisprudence from a major Egyptian Sunni madrasa:

e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. Bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)"​

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umdat_al-Salik_wa_Uddat_al-Nasik

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Azhar

 

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What you cited is clearly telling that female circumcision isn't obligatory and is even hinting that it's unnecessary.

Consider, for example, that Islamic law protects a woman's right to sexual enjoyment, as demonstrated by the fact that a woman has the right to divorce on the grounds that her husband does not provide sexual satisfaction. It follows that Islamic law prohibits clitorodectomy (partial or complete removal of the clitoris) or infibulation (excision of part or all of the external genitalia and stitching/narrowing of the vaginal opening), or any genital mutilation which impairs the woman's ability to enjoy sexual relations. Such prohibitions are consistent with the hadithic warning against severity in female circumcision.

 

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They do sanction a partial clitorectomy, and it's a slippery slope, pardon the pun.

 

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But what I quoted clearly prohibits partial or complete clitorodectomy.

 

You didn't cite anything. It is permitted to make her less sensitive to sexual pleasure, but not completely insensitive to it. It's a clear attempt to control sexuality and specifically monogamy, especially in females.

 

The italic part was cited. Also what is female circumcision being sunna supposed to mean sunna is what the prophet (pbuh) did and he wasn't female.

 

This looks like your opinion.

 

Citing mean you have a reference as to where the quote comes from. I cited a recent work of Sunni jurisprudence.

 

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Okay that was just a quote.

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Bingo, how'd you know, good deductive reasoning. No, you see, it sells better if it's an attempted honour killing -.- damn fox news.

 

Who is obligated to follow this? By what authority? Who imposes this authority?

Out of curiosity, are you circumcised? I'm not. At what age were you circumcised? By whom?

 

It's somewhat different for males, but I do object to that as well, it's just as barbaric. Who is obligated to follow this? Anyone who wants to!

 

Female genital mutilation is clearly not contrary to Islam - it's normal, customary, openly done and unpunished, in several Islamic societies.

You might as well claim that capital punishment is contrary to Christianity, and quote a bunch of Bible verses or famous Christian clerics or other authorities to prove your case.

Honor killings are found in violent tribal cultures that severely oppress women - a lot of them are Islamic, these days, for whatever reason, but the pattern is widespread (including the region of the US more or less coincident with the Confederacy, not so long ago).

 

Correct, because genitals have very little to do with believing in one God or accepting Mohammed as a Prophet.

 

You must be claiming that female genital mutilation is normal and customary in all the muslim countries of the world and is according to Islamic jurisprudence right?

 

People like your parents, you mean. Does education make a difference? Are less Jews circumcised today than used to be before? In my own experience, community seems to be more important. I suppose it is similar to tattoos, clit piercings, hairstyles and waxing body hair. In some cultures, people tattoo their children, pierce their ears, shave their heads [or grow their hair long and tie it in turbans], wax pubic hair after puberty etc. I remember doing anthropometry on seven and eight year olds two years ago. The girls were very mature compared to Indian girls of the same age. They wore lipstick, makeup and high heels. Some of them even wore training bras which I thought was quite ridiculous. Apparently there are Hannah Montana training bras and they are geared for girls who want to be women. The parents buy them for these girls. I'm not sure what these children think about sex. I spent four years with Arab kids and they seemed normal to me compared to these training bra seven year olds.

 

That is true each Islamic culture contains their own version of Islamic culture which is blended with their secular culture. Where the Islamic ends and the traditional non-Islamic begins is something Islamic Scholars could debate about. Also whether to incorporate or oppose modern cultural changes could be debated.

But their cultures are their cultures and include whatever they do. Our Western cultures tend to include a compulsion for people being obsessed with finding things wrong with Islam. It is just something that is part of our modern tradition. This obsession to criticize Islam is only debatably a part of Christianity and Judaism and is not at all a part of science or hedonism but it is part of our culture modern Western culture to criticize Islam so blindly and instinctively we do it as if we were mothers having our children circumcised. And though we may act indignant I can see that in some weird way we enjoy our indignation.


Enjoyed fake indignation seems to be universal to all cultures. Whether it is Hitler and Nazis or communists, or Muslim and Christian fanatics, or proud scientific atheists, or Punk Goths, or party boys and girls, or uptight teetotaling prudes or snobby rich pricks, or whatever the fuck I am, people seem to have an appetite for looking seemingly contemptuously at others with fake indignation that they are enjoying. But not everybody knows that they are playing. Probably most don't know that they are playing. They have gotten lost in the game and believe their own bullshit. It's all too absurd.

And the people who are the targets of the purposeless contempt get offended. That too is absurd but they are playing so hard. So I play my game. "Down with hate! Down with pride!"