Happy Australia Day

Discussion in 'History' started by paddoboy, Jan 25, 2020.

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  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I told the story about the horny blonde thus.....
    James came back and sarcastically said......
    Then James interpreted it this way///

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    I replied.....
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Here's another article that explains why changing Australia Day isn't pointless:

    https://theconversation.com/austral...history-of-celebration-and-contestation-70278

    ---
    I mean, no surprises that you post an article by a right-wing academic teaching at a Catholic university. But did you bother reading anything else?

    Do you agree with everything that you quoted there?
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    You and your baseless assumptions. They never stop, do they?

    Oh I see. I wrote, in reference to a post of yours full of personal attacks and pointless repetition, that "There's nothing in this that I need to respond to."

    You responded to that with "There's nothing you have responded to honestly James, by your own admittance."

    I assumed you were actually talking about stuff I had responded to - i.e. that I'd been somehow dishonest in my extensive and detailed responses to your previous posts. But no. It turns out that you were simply taking an opportunity to insult me on a technicality. I didn't respond to that waste-of-space nonsense honestly because I chose not to respond to it at all. It would be just as fair to say that I didn't respond to it dishonestly, by my own admittance.

    Really, why do you bother with this kind of shit-stirring? Try addressing the content rather than trying to insult me all the time.

    Note to self: paddoboy has difficulty recognising irony. In future, be careful to spell everything out explicitly when dealing with this person. He is unable to read between the lines, and takes everything literally (except, of course, when it better suits his purposes to make up something or assume rather than to address the literal text).
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I rarely indulge the opinion of fools. especially fools that like calling someone over the internet a sexual harraser based on own sexual baggage and problems..
    When the article/story of that low woman that falsely accused a bloke that simply went out of his way to help her, she was utterly disgusted and had great sympathy for the man and the consequences he had to endure. She knows sweet fuck all about science James, but as per society, she would play you off a break!!
    Bloody oath I loved it!!
    No, not at all...just my good looking apple bum.
    Sure, every red blooded blokes dream!!
    What your thoughts are on it are yours and I'll treat them with the contempt you are treating me and this thread. But hey James, I'm big enough and ugly enough to stand up to your vile slurs and inuendo. If the truth be known, I would guess other members here reading this are also disgusted.
    I don't slap the arses of strangers unless given a come on as I informed you...you trying to tell lies again James? You must be desperate.
    Can I??? Oh goody goody gumdrops!!
    Sure!! But I didn't object! Perhaps you are somewhat envious, that no cute blonde ever slapped you on the arse?
    You have no right or authority to discuss anything with me, considering the low slurs and inuendo you have been making.
    Handy being a mod James, you can control whatever you like, and make whatever excuses you like for your creepy self.
    Is this sort of talk making you feel good James? Yeah, desperation and creepiness.
    Í don't and have never harrased anyone..What about you James?. You seem to be playing your cards close to your chest. I mean how many people that put themselves on a pedestal, preaching against sexual misconduct, are actually rapists or peadiphiles them selves James? *nudge, nudge, wink, wink*
    Look at our dear old Cardinal Pell!!
    I'm pretty confident also James, but sorry, you and your baggage
    would be the last person I would run anything by.
    I've listed a couple already James...selective reading?
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I have never tolerated bullies James. And I give back what I get. For the umpteenth time, go back and see where the insults started flying,
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    What do you need to throw insults James? Someone to disagree on a simple political stance, with the support of most of society?
    You never commented on the ambos addressing the Mrs with darls, darling and sweety. What lengthy excuse/reason do you have to justify that. No justification needed of course by my standards, but yours are different.
     
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Didn't I mention before, that I don't judge orginizations whether perceived to being left or right. I judge on merit. Never voted Liberals ever in my life James, but that did not stop me from giving Johhny Howard 100% approval rating after his gun by back after the Port Authur massacre.
     
  11. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    paddoboy:

    Before I respond to your latest series of outraged outbursts, I think it would be useful for us to take stock of how we got to where we're at in this conversation.

    In post #1 you wrote that you were celebrating Australia Day.
    In post #4, I posted a one-sentence post noting that the celebration is controversial and referred to as Invasion Day by some indigenous Australians.
    In post #6, you acknowledged my post. You then introduced the topic of the date of Australia Day, and you said that in your opinion date should remain 26 January.
    In post #7, I asked you why a different date wouldn't be equally suitable for the celebration.
    In post #8, you said you "really wouldn't give a stuff" about changing the date, but changing it "would upset others".

    For the rest of the thread, on the topic of the date of Australia Day, you have given every impression that you "give a stuff" about retaining the date. In fact, as the thread has progressed your stance on the date has become more and more hard-line. You also gradually took to trying to paint me as some kind of change-the-date crusader, despite my informing you on several occasions that it's not really my battle to fight.

    Very early on in the thread, you started getting all personal with me, making lots of assumptions about me based on nothing. One of the first was your claim in post #8 that I'm not interested in sport. You presumed to tell me that I ought to start watching more sport. In post #10 you asked if I had any indigenous friends, and in post #11 I answered that question. Since then, you have brought up that matter repeatedly, as if the opinions of your indigenous friends (as reported second-hand by you) are somehow representative of all indigenous Australians' views on Australia Day. Later on, you started claiming that I've never met an indigenous person - another baseless and incorrect assumption you made about me. You have continued to add to this list of baseless personal assumptions throughout the thread. You have not stopped doing this even after I have pointed out (repeatedly) that you're doing it, so I can only assume you make these things up in order to try to attack me personally. Meanwhile, you complain bitterly when I quote your own words to draw conclusions about your opinions - i.e. deducing things about you not based on assumptions but on what you actually write in the thread.

    As you've become progressively angrier over the course of the thread, you have accused me of a number of bizarre things. In post #10 you as good as suggested that I was advocating that all white people be kicked out of Australia. In post #17, you asked me if I was promoting a revolution or riots. How did a discussion about the date of Australia Day lead you to seriously consider either of those things - or did you just make up that stuff in order to try to paint me as unreasonable or unhinged?

    You started accusing me of deliberate dishonesty as early as post #17 of the thread. Obviously you have a big problem when people question or disagree with you. You get angry. You really started to go to town with your accusations in post #22, which you dedicated entirely to trying to prove how dishonest and "desperate" I supposedly am. Meanwhile, I was concentrating on the thread topic, posting a whole lot of useful information about public opinion polls in my post #24.

    The matter of your sexist attitudes came up first in post #19 of the thread. I brought it up in a one-sentence passing comment as a reference to one other thread in which you were "highly resistant to changing your ways". You chose to re-open the discussion of your sexism in more detail in post #20, where you introduced a new example that was supposed to defend your stance on that in the previous discussion.

    Realising that re-opening the discussion about sexism would (a) threaten to take us off topic and (b) most likely result in the same outcome as last time - namely you making an unpleasant spectacle of yourself - I asked you, in post #26, "Do you want me to dig up that old thread? Do you want to reopen that discussion?". In the same post, I also gave you the following undertaking:

    I won't comment on this until you give me your consent to reopening your sexist attitudes as a discussion topic. Please let me know. I'm extending you this courtesy because I feel like you had a hard time of it last time we tackled the issue head on. You seem very set in your ways and you're obviously unwilling to change your unwelcome behaviour. Nevertheless, I don't want to put you through the wringer again unless you're really keen.
    In other words, while you were looking for excuses to accuse me of dishonesty and to make personal assumptions about me, I was extending you the courtesy of asking you to confirm what you seemed to be leaning towards - namely re-opening the sexism discussion and continuing essentially from where we left off in that discussion. In that same post, you will notice, I was still discussing the topic of Australia Day, adding new content.

    In post #28, you posted this, in answer to my question about re-opening the sexism discussion:

    You appear rather delusional James, much like river and MR.
    You want to open that thread and somehow pretend that I looked foolish, be my guest.​

    In other words, your response to a post in which I considered your feelings and was courteous enough to ask about your desire to re-open an old, bruising discussion, was to accuse me of being delusional, right off the bat. I do note, however, that you consented to re-opening the discussion - actually invited me to do so, in fact. If there was an lingering doubt about your intent, you leapt straight in to discussing that topic yourself, also in post #28.

    After that, of course, you really started piling on the personal insults and assumptions.

    If you think I wanted to reopen the sexism discussion, you only have to read post #32, in which I clearly set out my feelings on that matter:

    I kind of feel bad every time I make an example of you. But you so often insist on doubling down. It is only by speaking out against the kinds of ingrained attitudes that you have that we can hope to change the world for the better. The first step is raising awareness. I apologise if, in the process of using your posts as an example, you end up getting hurt. However, you can't say I didn't warn you.​

    Things went on from there, and that's how we got to where we're now at, in a nutshell. You're all upset because you've ended up feeling the same way you did the first time I went around the block with you on the topic of everyday sexism and harassment. The time that you've spent that hasn't involving dreaming up new ways to insult me, you have spent desperately trying to defend your own honour. At the same time, you keep digging the hole deeper for yourself, what with all the preening around your own sexual attractiveness.

    There's a whole extra facet of the discussion that started off with your posting of a racist song, but I won't take time to review that particular part of the discussion in this post. It's an uphill battle to try to argue that racist or sexist songs are nothing to be concerned about, and it's also sadly symptomatic of the attitude that everyday sexism is nothing to be concerned about.

    Now, before all this got sidetracked and heated, what was the discussion actually about? Oh yes, Australia day. And what was our disagreement around that, exactly? Oh yes, something about changing the date. And what did you have to say about that idea, eventually? Well, hidden among all the personal and off-topic crap, we find this:

    In post #54, I wrote:

    A person who is open to reasonable change, like I am, would say "If Australia's indigenous people regard the national day of celebration offensive in light of the official date of that celebration, and there is no compelling reason to continue to celebrate on that date, then the date should be changed to a mutually-agreeable date."
    And, a few posts later, in #57, you almost agreed with me:

    Yes!! If a reasonable large majority of Australia's indigenous folk regard that day as offensive, and if there is no compelling reason [which there is] then the date can be considered to be changed to a date mutually agreed upon. [if such mutual agreement is even possible]
    Apart from your mistake that there are compelling reasons to retain the date, we actually seem to be in agreement on the matter that started the whole horrible ball rolling in the first place. I can quite easily live with the remaining difference of opinion we have on that topic.

    Now, the real question is whether you want to keep going on the whole sexism topic. I'll respond to your most recent posts next. After that, it's up to you. That discussion was your choice from the start.
     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    paddoboy:

    An issue has now come up in one of your posts that demands separation from the rest of our discussion. This post will therefore focus only on that.

    Add some more insults and personal assumptions to the long list of paddoboy insults and assumptions that already exist in this thread.

    You call me a fool, and not for the first time. I invite readers to judge for themselves whether you are correct. I am starting to worry that wasting my time on you risks making me look like a fool, I can tell you that. You keep trying to drag me down to your level.

    My assessment of your harassing behaviour is based on your own accounts of incidents that you have chosen to share with your readers, as well as on various opinions and attitudes you have expressed repeatedly in your posts. Now there's one more data point, which brings us to a serious, problematic issue with this latest comment of yours.

    You know nothing about any sexual baggage I might or might not have. Certainly I have never shared with you any details about my sex life. You are unqualified to diagnose any problems I might have, even if we were to assume I have some. But all this is largely irrelevant, because this is you lashing out wildly and inappropriately. You are, in fact, sexually harassing me. Apart from the fact that your attentions are unwelcome, this is not a good look for you, given that you're ostensibly trying to argue that you're not sexist or a harasser.

    I will ask you once to cease and desist your sexual harassment of me. I will also accept your apology, if you can bring yourself to offer one for your appalling behaviour in making that comment.

    Let me be very clear: I am not playing games with this. Think carefully about how you want to respond.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    As for the rest...

    You didn't show her what you wrote in the thread, did you?

    And so, not sexual harassment in this instance. Why bring up that example, if not merely to preen about your own sexual attractiveness?

    We could explore what signals you consider a "come on", but I don't really have the stomach for it.

    Note that I asked you a question, gave you my own answer to the question I asked, and asked you if you agreed or disagreed with me. The only place a lie could be told in any of that is if I lied about my own answer to my own question, which would be a pretty bizarre thing for me to do.

    If I wanted to try to tell lies somewhere in this thread, I think I'd make a better go at it than this.

    For some reason, regularly when I ask you a question, seeking to clarify something you've written or what your opinion is on something, you avoid answering the question and instead accuse me of "innuendo" or "vile slurs". Why don't you just answer the questions honestly, rather than assuming I'm try to put words in your mouth? Do you think I'm trying to trick you or trip you up when I ask you for your opinion on something? Are you scared of answering questions that I put to you? Is that why you avoid answering so often?

    Again with the assumptions. This is getting very old very quickly, paddoboy. Just stop it, okay? And stop trying to harass me. You shouldn't do that to anybody.

    First thing to say is: this is a discussion forum. If you don't want discussions, the solution is obvious and simple. It is my right as a member of this forum to post in threads, even ones that you start. You don't get to veto my contributions just because you don't like them or you don't like me, or you can't handle somebody disagreeing with you or questioning you.

    The next thing to say, in reference to the discussion of your sexism: I explicitly sought your permission to discuss that topic with you in this thread. You explicitly invited me to discuss it with you. You have a very short memory. See my post, above.

    I have interacted with you in this thread entirely as an ordinary member of the forum, so far. I have not controlled what you have chosen to post, or what you have chosen to discuss. Your choices and your content are entirely your own. I have not censored you or edited you in any way (other than editing one post to fix an obvious problem with the quote tags, and I certainly did not edit any of your words in that post. There is a record of the before and after versions that I can provide if you doubt my word on this.)

    Rightly, as a regular member I could have filed multiple reports regarding various breaches of our site rules by you in this thread, if I had chosen to. As a moderator, I could in theory have issued you with warnings. Obviously, to avoid any actual or apparent conflict of interest, I have not taken any steps to report or moderate you for, in particular, your repeated personal insults directed at myself, or for your numerous troll-like unsupported accusations that I have told lies or posted nonsense. I note in passing that you have added yet another insult right here, calling me "creepy" with no justification at all.

    I have not, at this time, taken any official action regarding your sexual harassment of me.

    No, it is not making me feel good. I told you right at the start when you wanted to re-open the discussion of your sexism that I didn't feel comfortable with that, and I explained why at that time. Nothing has changed since then, except an escalation in the seriousness and frequency of your poor behaviour in your replies to my posts.

    Again, I note your unsupported accusation of "desperation and creepiness". Stop that.

    Let us be very clear here.

    Are you accusing me of harassing somebody, without any evidence?
    Also, it looks a lot like you're calling me a pedophile, again without any evidence. Is that what you're doing?

    Both of these are very serious accusations.

    You now owe me a public retraction and an apology.

    I expect you to post your retraction and apology in your next reply to this thread. If you will not retract and apologise, I will ask the other moderators to consider expelling you permanently from this forum.
     
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  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I note that I didn't read through the entire post #84 before posting #87, #88, #89 and most of #90. If I had been aware earlier of the serious accusations or the harassment that appear in that post, I would have concentrated solely on sorting out that issue instead of addressing any of the other content.

    The behaviour exhibited in post #84 crosses lots of lines and is quite reprehensible and unacceptable. I have reported it to my fellow moderators, who will follow up and make any final decisions regarding this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Go fuck yourself you dishonest excuse for a man and moderator.
    I was 100% sure this was going to happen as your desperation grew and grew. Like I said Jamesy, particularly re ANZAC Day, you should be ashamed of your fucking self, and thankfully even with me gone, nothing is going to change re ANZAC Day and Australia Day. That's obviously what sticks in your mind James.
    Whether others here take note of your lies, inuendo slurs, insults and then making excuses for all of them I can't be sure. But I am sure that in the eyes of some, you have lost all respect.
    cheerio fool!!!
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I have closed this thread, pending a review by the other moderators.

    Full disclosure: in a private message, I demanded a full retraction and apology from paddoboy of his baseless implications in post #84 that I have sexually harassed somebody and/or that I am a rapist, a pedophile, or both. If any of these accusations were true, that would make me a criminal. I could go to jail. So I take this attempt to smear my reputation very seriously indeed.

    I also requested an apology from paddoboy for his inappropriate comments focussed on various aspects of my private sex life. I believe those comments constitute sexual harassment.

    The relevant private message was shared in full with other moderators, Tiassa and Bells.

    I don't think either of these requests was unreasonable in the circumstances. Again, it appears that rather than doing the right thing, paddoboy has chosen to double down on his appalling behaviour. I will recuse myself from taking any action in regards to paddoboy's membership. The other moderators will decide where this goes from here. I would like to see paddoboy permanently banned, in light of his response in post #92 to my reasonable request.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Update: This matter was discussed extensively by the moderators and paddoboy was banned from the forum while those discussions were ongoing.

    paddoboy offered a private apology of sorts. Taking into account the fact that I pushed paddoboy hard in this thread and in doing so was a causal influence on his eventual angry outburst, I decided to let this matter drop. paddoboy is free to keep posting here, for now.

    The decision not to ban paddoboy permanently could easily have gone the other way. Strong arguments were made for why paddoboy should be permanently banned in light of his behaviour. However, in the end, as one of the two people directly involved here, I made the call to allow paddoboy to stay.

    This thread will remain closed.
     
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