To know your enemy is to know their strengths and weaknesses. And no he has never opened a book becuase he has never heard of the Nova Bomb. Perhaps we should get Saquist or Kitt in here. What do you think, Fettman?
Well...clearly then, you should not have used a human weapon like the NOVA bomb. If you want to talk Trek Federation v Covenant then Trek Federation need not worry about that weapon; the UNSC would probably seek help from Starfleet against the Covenant. She has emotions, and trillions of drones. The Borg assimilate entire worlds. Their weapons are capable of cutting thru ship metals, just like the Covenant. Their Cubes are 3 kilometers per side. There's very little that would make the Borg Queen go "Holy Shit". She usually prompts that reaction in others. Who cares? From the description they seem to be a superior evolution of biology, that the Federation has successfully faced and defeated on screen, thru deviously clever application of genetic engineering No it does not. It merely includes all weapons in Halo canon. It cannot include Trek weapons, simply because they do not exist in the Halo universe. You have not presented any premise where anyone used nano-biological weapons similar to that deployed by Voyager's EMH and the Borg. How about just 50 Borg Cubes against a Flood populated world? They'd reduce that planet to ash in minutes. You are assuming ground-to-ground. I however can see the value of a planetary assault against a foe that depends on ground troups Again, the Flood would have to successfully penetrate their opponents defenses. I completely agree with you that if successful in getting past the array of advanced shielding and weaponry a Flood entity (or entities) would likely be able to absorb humans/Romulans/Klingons or whatever; but your arguments assume that folks in the Trek universe would sit like bumps on a log and do nothing while a hostile invasion force approaches. That's not how a versus argument works. Yes, and that ability only works when you fight on the ground. Fleet starships, Empire NeghVars, Senate Warbirds, Collective Cubes can stand at a distance and pound a planet to dust. So while the Flood entities all hop along at 50 feet in the air, the planet they're hopping along on is being burned. And trust me, if Starfleet won't do it (they'd probably take too long before starting a widescale assault like that), the Klingons & Romulans would. The Borg wouldn't even hesitate. Honestly I think that you guys keep baiting Trek fans into what you consider unwinnable situations, then begin with the personal jabs. "Halo v Trek, Wars v. Trek, Warhammer v. Trek". I will tell you honestly I knew nothing about Warhammer til that thread, and the only thing that seems stunning is the military use of magic. And who cares why the Covenant still uses nukes? This is immaterial as the Federation and other Trek races successfully defend against nuclear arms a looooong time ago. Fleet and ally ships would scoff at most nuclear weapons. Perhaps not the NOVA bomb, due to its unique application, but they can probably successfully avoid or dismantle them. Material nuclear weapons at crawling speeds are hardly a threat to Trek or Wars even. Plus you have yet to provide any canon evidence of your claims. While TW is very abrasive, he at least provides the evidence that he interprets to support his arguments. You're only making assertions.
It would be a good fight but the Cov out number the borg it would be a matter of time and it seems that the crew of the UPF ships that get attacked when they see the borg they stand there and do nothing.
Okay, so half a million mile long ships, each with an army and full complement of fighters and transports, wouldn't scare Trek? If you played Halo 2, Spark does indeed say that at the end, when asked by the Arbiter. And I would think that a race unimaginably more advanced then humans, who can manipulate space-time, subspace, and physics, would be smart enough to know how to create a nano-virus against the Flood. I mean, if they can make a few meter round ball have the interior space of a planet, construct a planet that can be scanned and appear no different then any other planet, and can create AI's that are stable for millenia, why can't they make a nano-virus? If they can destroy all life in the galaxy, why can't they make a nano-virus? We are talking about a race more advanced then any other race in all of Sci-fi, and more powerful then the Q in ST. Why wouldn't they be able to make a nano-virus?
But Q is not bothered by effects of the flesh, If the forerunners lost to the flood then they are inferior to Q. Borg out number Covenant ? Figures please, And even if this were true, you don't factor in the borg's ability to adapt.
I'm beginning to repeat myself. By canon, the Borg number in the trillions. Thus far you only assert, but do not provide evidence. And I beg to differ. Captain Picard initially did not attack the Borg because of his in built training of First Contact protocols. However, now that the Federation knows of the Borg, they shoot first and ask questions later. Similarly, I will grant that the Covenant will probably get the first blow, maybe even the first kill. But the Feds won't stand still further than the first incident...
When did u get from "mile long" to "half a million mile long"??? The Earth is 7926mi in diameter at the equator. You mean to say, that Halo ships are 63 times as long as the Earth? A full complement of what? 1000? 100? What's a complement? I'd like someone to verify this Halo 2 ending conversation. The best I'm finding online is fan wiks, hardly canon evidence, and completely unrelated in any event. If necessary I'll take a half hour or so this weekend to beat the game myself. Sure you'd think so. But unless the Halo producers, writers and directors think so the characters cannot and do not have genetic manipulation capabilities. If you "think so" for everything, this discussion is reduced to a game of 'neener neener'. Please provide evidence or examples. No they might not. Nuclear and directed energy weapons development, spatial physics, cloaking devices and computer intelligence research are completely different to biological/genetic and nanotechnological engineering. You must provide canon evidence of a similar weapon (as STVOY used), or it simply cannot exist in the Halo universe as a useable weapon for the purposes of this argument. Similarly, there is no nuclear device like the NOVA bomb in Trek. There is however evidence that Trek techs can use transporter beams to scatter equipment into molecules (OBrien and Geordi have both provided this option on separate ocassions). There is also canon evidence that Federation transporters convert the destructive energy of undetonated weapons that pass thru it (eg STTNG: The Most Toys). I edited an earlier post to add this, and I'll repeat it here: "You have yet to provide any canon evidence of your claims. (While TW is very abrasive, he at least provides the evidence that he interprets to support his arguments). You're only making assertions." By who's definition??? Did Bungie/Alex Seropian declare the Covenant greater than all other races in SciFi to which LucasArts, the Roddenberry Foundation, Paramount Pictures, J. Michael Straczynski, Warner Bros. and countless other creators/rights holders bowed?? Where do you get off making a sweeping statement like that?
I was talking about the number of ships in an armada. Half a million mile long ships wouldn't scare them? And the Covenent do outnumber the borg. They control the entire Milky Way Galaxy. The Borg only control Delta Quadrent. Now which do you think is most outnumbered? As for Spark saying that, I'll post a link. Though it would seem I was wrong about the blast efect. It was three radii of the Galactic Center. In other words, they are kill everything in an area half again larger then the Milky Way. And it even says they exausted every last option.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii38-0hkZJQ There is the cutscene. As for the army, there was only one Covenent ship supplying soldiers on both Earth and the first Halo. In both cases, there were thousands of ground troops and hundreds of armor units. And the fighter and transport complement can be gained by comparing the fighter in Halo 2 with the hanger in Halo 1. The Hanger is big enough to house about 6 fighters and 2 transports. Thats just one hanger. And given that those are small by comparison to the ship, It would not be too bold to think that there are about 14 hangers on a ship, more for a Covenent Super Carrier. The Forerunners did not lose to the Flood. They were considered an extreamly deadly, extreamly powerful parasite. They kept them in labs to study them. They were not at war with them. They merely wanted to kill the deadliest pest in the Galaxy. After all their previeous attempts failed, they activated the Halos, hoping it would starve the Flood to death via lack of hosts. But the presence of Shield Worlds like Onyx provides evidence of them still alive and well as a race. They specifacally state in Ghosts of Onyx that the Halos were to be the sword, Onyx their shield. The entire planet was constructed out of trillions of Golden Sentinal Drones. At the center of the planet was the dyson sphere, a small ball about 10 meters round. And next to them were three Spartan 3's, who were actually taken out of this dimension by Forerunner Sentinals. Inside the Dyson Sphere is a world just like Earth, and it was designed to be a place safe from the Halo's firing. It lays beneath what was once a Forerunner city. It was huge, the Forerunner equivalent of New York City. And the Covenent do have favorite tactics: They like to appear in massive fleets, often commanded by a Flagship or a Supercarrier. As for Glassing the surface of a planet, if that sounds unlikely to you, I present a picture:Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! That is a picture of Reach during the bombardment.
It sounds kind of stupid for a Covenent ship to have just one small hanger, correct? And 14 is actually a good guess. The designers of the game have several refrences to seven. For example, in the book Halo: First Strike, it says that a covenent battleship has seven plasma projectors. 2401 Pentient Tangent has the numbers in his name add up to seven. And 2401 is 7 to the fourth power. 343 is seven to the third power. Forerunner architecture in the city revolves around the number seven. Seven Halos. Miranda keyes has the number seven emblazoned on her left cheek. 14 hangers is the likeliest number of hangers on a Covenent battleship ( 7 per side). Any less, and it doesn't fit the amount of transports and fighters mentioned in the books. A Covenent Super Carrier likely has about 42 hangers. And no, I don't mean that as a refrence to Douglas Adams. As for the Covenent designing ships that way, well if you had their mindset, wouldn't you want to imitate the gods? I wasn't talking about the Covenent. It was the Forerunners I was talking about. I mean, even the Q would kill all life if it would supposedly stop the spread of an extreamly dangerous parasite. The Covenent do not enslave. You are either added to them, or you are wiped out. And the only known Covenent colony had 7000 ships in orbit. Thats just one colony. And add that to the billions and billions of other stars, each with their own planetary bodies in the Milky Way. As for the Forerunners developing genetic engineering, it is widely regarded that the Flood were a Forerunner atteamt at cloning or re-animation ( Bring the dead back to life) that went horribly wrong. That would explain why they kept them in labs. And Humans today have genetic engineering, though a primitive kind. If a race is thousands of times more advanced then the Humans in 2552(77) then why wouldn't they have genetic engineering. It is even said that the Hunters were a result of an attempt to combat the flood with non-infectable soldiers. As for nano tech, again humans in 2552 have primitive kinds of nanotech. If a race thousands of times more advanced then them can't make nanotech, then that just doesn't make any sense. I mean, they created planets, megastructures, once reigned over the entire galaxy, and compleatly destroyed any and all sentient things in said galaxy, why no nanotech? And heres something else: why would you need to sterilize an area outside the Milky Way if you didn't inhabit it and no flood were there? Why would you need to contain the Flood for study if you wouldn't be around or any where near them them to study them?
Borg, and UFP might work together, and eliminate the covenant, then help humanity find a solution against the flood.
I don't think the Borg allies with anyone. I would think that the Borg would try to take atvantage of the situation and attack either the Humans in Halo or the federation while its distracted. And remember, we are talking about a Coalition of many diffrent alien species that control the entire Milky Way, includng its arms. That would be about 300,000 lightyears of territory. Not even the Borg have that much territory. It would take forever for the Federation to try to wipe out the Covenent. And the Halo humans would likely defeat the Borg, as the Borg are weak against physical attacks. There is no on-screen evidence of any kinetic energy shield of any kind, and they don't raise shields untill they are attack. A single MAC heavy round is likely to shatter their ships.
Have you seen how big a borg ship is ?, They don't have a central anything, so you can;t kill them that easily, Also, A mac is a simple High Velocity Railgun, You think that that will pierce its shields or Shatter it ? Nova Bombs, are transportable, and therefore demolecurizable, once detected fairly easily, goodbye. Also, which book does it say the Cov has control of all the milky way ? It also states in Ghosts of onyx that it is possible that the Forerunners couldn't get to the shield in time.
Maybe not hit a critical system, but that round is moving extreamly quickly and has tremendous kinetic energy. And the Borg do not raise shields until after they are attacked. Thats what they always do. So after the first round hits, they raise shields. But the kinetic energy is likely to compleatly shatter the ship. And it is not a railgun, its a coilgun. There is a very, very big diffrence between the two. It is stated several times in manuals, the books, and guides that the Covenent control the entire Milky Way. The Borg are litterally faceing about 3 to 1 odds if they oppose the Covenent. Alas, if the fusionable material inside the NOVA bomb was detectable, wouldn't you think, the Covenent would of detected it? I mean, human prowlers are invisible to the Covenent. That means the have some material that scanners can't detect and hides all emmissions from inside. If you wanted to deliver a superweapon that would devastate your enemy, wouldn't you make it so that it would be undetectable? Wouldn't you think that the Borg, having never been exposed to MACs, would not have their ships prepared for it. The Borg have shields that might keep out energy weapons, but physical weapons have never been tried. And the Borg do not raise shields until after they are attack. Therefor, they don't raise shields until their ship is shattered by the first round. Photon torpedos have less kinetic energy then a MAC round, but still manage to penatrate the armor of a cube and destroy it. And because of Einstein's Theorys of Relativity, the round actually gets larger, giving it even more kinetiv energy. The closer something gets to light speed, the larger it gets until it becomes infintely large. Something moving at about 40% the speed of light is bound to have enough kinetic energy to shatter any ST ship.
The Covenant are Imititive not Initiative, they may have never gone through a nuclear stage in their development. Therefore never learnt to detect it. The Borg have elements of duranium and heavy metals, the Halo universe does not, Titanium A plating is being used ... still. Why in several books does it take more than one round to puncture a covenant ship ? even a small one? Also, other species occupy the milky way, universe on universe, the UFP, Klingons and Romulans share their own quadrants, Even if you defeat the borg, The covenant have got Species 8472 to consider, As well as the other residents of the Alpha quadrant. Also, since the Borg share a near telepathic link, as soon as one ship is destroyed, the borg will consider it a threat, therefore being prepped for it next time.
