Halo vs Star Trek

Just saying if one ring fires only one ring fires. The idea is that using one puts the others on standby and they can be fired if necessary

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Which is pretty absurd given that the UNSC has been well-established to be using fusion reactors as their primary power generation technology. The raw amount of energy required to accelerate an object that large to that velocity, over the extremely short distance of the MAC gun's 'barrel' far exceeds what is physically possible for a fusion reactor, even a series of reactors charging up an OMGWTFBBQinsane capacitor, to achieve.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

That is only if you remove the Index during the firing sequence.

It may not be possible, but UNSC and Covenant ship regularly accelerate at thousands of Gs in combat and fight at tens of thousands of kilometers. The calcs I've seen for acceleration across 10,000 kilometers in 18 seconds (H:FS) is almost spot on for the MAC gun. Then you have the Covenant planet glassings, the whole giant orbital MAC platforms that no matter what are still 50 GT per shot low end, the Shiva nukes being threats hundreds of thousands of kilometers away, hundreds of Shivas destroying a gas giant, the NOVA Bomb which is made up of nine fusion warheads each 1/900 the full yield (low end in the high TT to low PT range). There is also the end of Halo CE where the Autumn goes off in a multi-teraton fireball (The Flood states it as the only source for the explosion we see), the fact Cortana consider the reactors the In Amber Clad enough to take out all of High Charity and from there the nearby Delta Halo.

And under Halo canon policy New>Old, so older sources don't mean much.

Also, sorry I haven't reply yet in teh SW Vs. ST thread, I've just been busy on other sites. I'll see about getting back into the debate first chance I get.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Yeah, and the bombardment in The Die is Case is terrible. The visuals show temporary clouds, no ejecta, and certainly no plasma forming in the atmosphere. Photon Torpedoes just stepped down from 50 megatons to 50 tons rather easily.

 

Ah, the butthurt little boy has come back for another spanking has he?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Come now Ricrery, we can all play this game. Like how a Covenant ships were missing at point blank range at rather slow moving Booster Frames in The Package. And you know, how they pounded through a fully shielded ship with their little cannon?

The problem is that can't be correct. In Ghost of Onyx we see that sixteen 30 megaton mines were used to cripple a fleet of fourteen ships, leaving only four remaining. Even though they were stated to have taken some damage to their shields, there's absolutely no way that they could have been so weak that they can suddenly be taken down by megatons.

Utterly absurd.

There's also the problem of recoil. It would require equal energy to keep the gun from being hurled backwards. And when you have large stations orbiting Earth, each firing at what some claim to be 10 teratons of firepower every few seconds/minutes, then you have the problem of how Earth wasn't baked alive.

Also, the massive, massive limitations of fusion keep that from being a possibility. It's just some silly higher end showing, sort of like TDiC. We can fix it by assuming that the shell itself has its mass reduced before being launched. It makes the power requirements possible and it means that Earth doesn't get roasted in the process.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Oh, the liar has come back as well. I love how you accept physics being a requirement for Halo, but not for Star Trek.

Oh? Bungie themselves gave Plasma Torpedoes a speed of .5c, thus, the Package is not to be used, at all. In TDiC (which you love to wank so much), we clearly see what the effect the volley had. There is no ejecta, there are clouds that last one second, and there is no plasma visible, which drops the yields down to tons. A kiloton would move things at tens of km/s, and guess what happens when something moves that fast? It *heats up*, creating a shroud of plasma brighter than the sun. We CLEARLY see that doesn't happen. The Die is Cast is an instance of TONS, not kilotons even. I bet you're going to deny this crying this is not true while saying fusion reactors can't move a projectile that that fast.

 

I do so for both--that is, loosly apply physics. You just hate it when it's applied to your universe. However, if you want me to relinquish that argument then I will do so--but then I will also argue Star Trek under that same premise.

Your choice, as always.

Evidence.

Of course, those were plasma charges, not plasma torpedoes.

Wow, that's some sketchy reasoning.

I do? I seem to remember saying that it should be discounted--except if we're playing with absurdly high yields, which you love to do so much; ie, the MACs.

So what? What do I care about the ten year plus old flawed VFX? I've already said before that I don't take visuals over dialogue, I take story over both. That is, whichever matches the story the best is in, be it either visuals or dialogue or both. Given that the story considers that they can destroy the planet, that this impacts the rest of the series, and in fact, all of the franchise, I'd take the six hour destruction as canon.

Now, whether or not I assume that those torpedoes are your average yield torpedoes or superweapons is entirely up to how you want to debate. Given however, your rather hypocritical style of applying rules to the other side and ignoring them for yourself, guess where we're going to end up?

 

Oh, so when ST has kiloton explosions, it's not true.

Oh my God. Did you even READ Fall of Reach? Anyway.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Right, the Halo Rings teleported to the Covenant homeworlds

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

No, YOU like high yields. You ACTUALLY assume dialog overrules visuals. Well fuck off, because the VISUALS are CONSISTENT with OTHER INSTANCES.

Well, too bad, I don't agree with your rabid "STAR TREK CAN DO TERATONS HUR HUR" belief either.

Oh? In the 80s, people thought that nukes could destroy the world. Do we have to take THAT literal as well? My my, even though the visuals are consistent, we must take dialog over visuals

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Too bad, visuals > dialog. We never see the "30% crust destroyed" bullshit that you cling to. Now, I bet you're going to back into a hole, change your opinion, like you did with the Imperium having only 80,000 ships, and having it torn apart as well.

 

The Package and other Halo Legend episodes are lower canon when it comes to visuals per Frank O'Conner.

As you have been showed before Halo Canon policy is very clear on New>Old. What an older source says means nothing if a more recent source says it wrong.

Yes you truly are utterly absurd.

IIRC the UNSC has some form of recoil system. Otherwise agreed, but that doesn't change the fact canon says that is the firepower level. No matter what SMAC stations are 50 GT per shot (and don't give me any more of that Mass Lighting bullshit because you have no proof they use it on weapons).

Ah, yes the same fusion reactors that go up in multi-teraton fireballs, can accelerate ships across tens of thousands of kilometers in no time flat. The fusion reactors who main feats have them being far more powerful than what is possible in real life.

Occam’s Razor frowns on you. There is no mention of this vital MR tech anywhere - and given that they need it to fire the shell at a high enough velocity to hit ships means that at some point it should be mentioned. The fact is you have zero prove they use any form of MR tech with weapons.

Bullshit.

Problem is the latest canon supports the MAC rounds which overrules older sources. On the other hand ST is all over the place and the most common is MT range.

Either way I still set on triple digit MT range to very very low single digit GT range. No matter what the Covenant wins in the end due to greater numbers and FTL speed. They can burn Federation worlds before they have a chance to send a fleet to assist.

Oh, and interesting low end for the MAC is 71 Megatons for 600 tons at 1000 KPS. This happens to fit nicely with the time it took to cross 3000 kilometers in TFoR.

 

Actually, there are instances of tons-kilotons.

The Ship: 10 isotons is safe enough to use even when there are soldiers not that far away.

The Die is Cast: The shots hitting the planet brought up no plasma or even mushroom clouds. Tons, at best.

Skins of Evil: Photon Torpedo hits planet, lasts for one second. Low kilotons.

Nemesis: The Scimitar has its shields at 70%, but a kiloton kinetic impact shreds its hull to pieces.

Episode with QT: Quantum Torpedoes last one second: Low Kilotons.

Yeah, but these will be ignored by the dishonest member in our presence.

 

We're not told the distances of said bombs either...so um, how do we know what sort of explosion there is?

Again with the flawed visuals. Truly we see the only means in which you can debate; nitpicking decade old special effects. Your arguments are as shallow as you are.

In any case, we're told that 40 ships can reduce the planet's crust and mantle down to the core. Those glassing operations of the Covenant? Child's play. Oh...and how long did they take again?

The target was a shuttle. Why would they waste their yields on that?

Artistic liscense. You honestly can't expect them to put ships moving at 240,000 km/s on screen do you? You wouldn't even see the ship's colliding.

Episode with QT? You're judging the yields of their weapons and you don't even know the episode?

Ah yes, the Ad Hominems. A clear sign that you can't actually debate on fair terms, am I right? Not surprising of course. I've beaten your sorry ass down so many other times that this is the only way you can actually pretend that you're winning.

No, they do. SoE could be considered an example, if we go by your strange desire to ignore the fireball size (which makes your calculations inaccurate), then yes they do. But simply performing a KT nuke example doesn't limit them to kiloton. You seem incapable of understanding this concept.

What you also don't seem to understand is something called a median.

You realize you sound like a sixteen year old girl when you say that, right?

"I mean, oh my God Hellblade, did you even read Fall of Reach? Chya!"

Fusion reactors?

That...has nothing to do with 'The Package', neither does the image you gave, and so forth.

I do?

Aaah, are you parroting the rules on another board? How cute, you actually take that as dogma. Well, no matter. I'm not bound by the rules of your little circle-jerk group. I argue that whichever the story takes true is true--and there's a good reason for that; because the story will continue based on which it considers to be true.

*chuckles*

Oh little ricrery, but you are amusing. You scream, kick, and whine about how Halo has teratons of firepower and that I'm such a liar--but the moment someone suggests it for Trek, you turn it away out of hand. How wonderfully hypocritical of you.

Those aren't visuals. Do you understand the concept of visuals? No, it seems you don't. Visuals are a medium in which to tell a story--what we see around us are not visuals in that same sense. We get visuals as a means of obtaining information and we typically treat them as solid fact because the world around us is consistant.

However, in the medium of a story, the visuals are not always correct. That's a fact of life. We see ships moving at speeds they're suggested by everyone in the show not to move at--even while at warp. If a Trek ship were moving at warp, we wouldn't see it...so, where's your argument that they're not moving at warp and that they're all delusional?

Says who? You? Why should I agree to those terms? I have absolutely no respect for you and you've proven time and time again that this is only for the sake of your unsatisfied ego.

Stated onscreen my friend.

Change what opinion? If you have the means to disprove the 80,000 ship count for the Imperium, be my guest. It's a conservative estimation. Just like I used to have 10,000 ships for Trek, but now I have 30,000. It's not something set in stone.

Again, you'd realize that if you weren't here for the sake of your own vanity.

 

They were going to hit Sisko.

Yes, even though it's consistent, we must take dialog over visuals. I do not agree with your retarded Star Trek wank, Mith.

Crust can mean mantle. We clearly see that the explosions aren't kilotons, and that is consistent. Lest I should bring up megawatts taking down ships.

Why waste a Photon Torpedo? It's no loss for them to put to maximum just for shits and giggles.

No, we clearly see that at the slow speeds that they're going at isn't fast.

You've never beaten my sorry ass. You have called instances as outliers since you are a massive Star Trek fanboy. I should remind myself about fucking morons like you here.

Then there is the Ship, tons, TDiC, tons, and Nemesis, one kiloton.

Well, someone as infamous on SB as YOU should clearly read about what he's talking about- Oh wait, you actually the Covenant went to Reach because they thought it was their home planet. Stupid little Trektards like you shouldn't be taken out of a pen.

Photon Torpedoes creating TON detonations? Yeah, just IGNORE physics on ST side more and more.

I was talking about LEGENDS or ORIGINS, imbecile.

For your side, anyway.

We CLEARLY don't see teraton or petaton effects, but a complete and utter moron like you would actually take his word over visuals.

We CLEARLY see ton explosions. The Reach trailer has detonations anything from 30 megatons up to 2.2 teratons, depending on what you pick.

Visuals override dialog. BTW, I love how you consider an instance where megawatts take shields down a bit an outlier, but a "teraton to petaton" (you're wrong) instance perfectly fine in ST.

Why should I agree with your terms?

Crust=/=Surface.

Guess what? To seal the deal, Mith once showed his Youtube account on Spacebattles.

 

Wow, that's pretty strange. Here I thought that killing Sisko and radiating the area would sort of kill the Changling inside the ship. You know, the one that was hiding and dying from when the ship crashed? The one that the Vorta was so desperate to keep that she was willing to let Sisko take back top secret military technology in exchange for it? You know, the remains of the one that she exchanged for it after it died? You know, the ones that the Jem'Hadar all comitted suicide over when they discovered that their god had died under their watch?

Oh, and those same ones that were in fact, only designed to scare the crew? Also, a 10 isoton explosion would be only around 4 megatons, so they could actually just detonate them far enough to where we see the flash and the bang without actually huring the people on the ship or near the ship.

Really, if you actually watched these episodes, you wouldn't look like a complete fool when you try and pass these off as legitiment calculations.

Consistent? Since when? In all of DS9 ships change sizes between episodes, scenes, and even in the same scenes. Does that mean that the UFP has magic size shaping ships too? Pretty funny how they never decided to use that to their advantage.

Oh that's right, they don't have magic size changing ships. It's almost like...almost like...it was a VFX error!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Shocking how that works out isn't it? Regardless, I dismiss your demand to treat visuals as the God of sci-fi. I don't apply such terms to Star Wars--or else most modern day battleships could go toe to toe with them and win.

No it doesn't. Especially if you're performing a glassing operation.

Oh, you mean like that handsome chap at Spacebattles dismissed the moronic claim by pointing out that NX-01 ships had megawatt level weapons? Strange how you won't bring that up, will you? Oh and that reminds me, I do believe you're refering to The Survivors--the same ship that Riker stated could "pulverize a planet" and in fact, had pulverized the planet they'd just scanned and Picard's reaction was to fight it and risk the lives of his entire crew than turn tail and get reinforcements. You know, the one with families.

So either 24th Century has a very different idea of the word megawatt/gigawatt/terawatt, or more likely, the weapon was technobabble. Which again, given how common phasers and disruptors are in the series, isn't all that surprising.

Waste? What's the big deal? Voyager went through twenty fucking shuttles while it was lost on the other side of the Galaxy. I really don't think a photon torpedo amounted to shit for Picard.

Yes, it's not like there might be something living down there...

Which is again, why it only takes them hours to cross solar systems on Impulse instead of years.

You know, admitting there's a problem is the first step to solving it.

Ad Hominem.

It hurts to know that you're pathetic in real life and the internet isn't it? Knowing that people tease you for your differences in the real world and then when you get the smallest chane of taking out that bitterness out on someone--you find out you're completely incapable of doing it.

The Ship
Again you ignore the evidence on this. First off, you haven't even proven your fifty meters claim. Second, even if it were, we see that the torpedo burrowed into the Defiant, so well in fact, that it didn't even leave an inch of space in the jeffries tube where it ended up...almost as if it didn't just bash its way through.

TDiC
Again, more blatant attempt at taking only what you want as evidence. The special effects are horribly outdated, how where they supposed to simulate planet-wide destruction?

Answer: They couldn't.

Of course, biased Ricrery also ignores the massive shockwaves that cover the entire planet in seconds, suggesting teratons of firepower...but what's that? He only wants to take certain aspects of the nuclear explosion that he wants? Why, how very odd! It's almost as if he was trying to slant the debate in his favor instead of being honest and saying that the visuals were just fucked up!

Ahh, is the little boy butthurt because not everyone reads his favorite book? Is there anything else I should read? You know, just in case I don't hurt your sensative little feelings anymore? Because I mean, it's not like you've ever been remotely wrong about anything! I mean, it's not like you don't know what you're talking about in episodes where they completely and utterly contradict what you claimed has happened--oh wait, it has happened.

It's almost like...like...people can make mistakes!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Sorry, visuals don't equal everything. Especially 80s and 90s visuals.

Or? We're talking about The Package. We see MC on Booster Frames dodging those laser beams at point blank range remember? Or how about the fact that his small little space bike was able to blast through the shields of a Covenant Warship?

Or does that not count?

Yes, because shockingly, those massive shockwaves would actually level entire continents. But I mean, it's not like those are any danger. I mean, it's not like the most lethal part of a nuke is the shock--oh shit it is.

As in, the really expensive weed or the cheap ones?

Says who?

Yes, it's not like ships 200 years or so before had megawatt weapons or that said ship tossing out megawatts had just devistated the planet or anything...I mean, why would anyone even think about silly stuff like that!

To my terms? My terms are fairly logical; it is a medium with flawed visuals at every turn that goes against the writers; ie, the people who come up with the concepts. Therefore, it's logical that more often than not, the visuals are going to be wrong.

Otherwise, you live in a universe where everyone says they're going hundreds of thousands of km/s, but are really going 50...yet they always make it to their destination on time based on the former claim, warp speeds that really aren't that fast (because we can see the ship moving at warp--not possible), ships that constantly changes sizes, nuclear explosions that have varied displays of power within the same detonation (ie, some aspects are teratons, some are kilotons), and you have in fact, visuals where the torpedo launcher fires phasers--or where the bare hull of ships fire phasers.

And yet you claim that these visuals are always overriding dialogue--yet, they are at odds with the story that is trying to be told. That's like saying that because the author in the book says that a guy has a scar on his right cheek, but the bookcover doesn't, then that means the author and the entire story is wrong.

Yes...and?

Guess what? To seal the deal, Mith once showed his Youtube account on Spacebattles.[/QUOTE]

So...he specifically said it was his account or did he just link to an account that just happen to have what he needed?

 

You look like a fool already. You haven't read a single W40k book IN YOUR LIFE, and you claim that the game is corrupt, but you accept ST's awful physics, awful setting (space communists, oh my God so damned amazing

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

), and clueless writers who actually attempt to pass off 10 ton explosions for 10 petatons.

Too bad, I accept visuals over dialog.

Really...

I meant surface.

Apparently to you, 43 gigatons can kill all life on a planet. MORE proof you don't understand scale. Megatons would NEVER EVER level a continent, but I guess such a simple concept is too hard for me.

Doesn't work like that. Apparently in the 24th century, people believe 80s to 90s beliefs that everything is literal.

Except they weren't going that fast.

A complete and utter moron such as yourself doesn't scare me.

Trektard.

I'm done with that shit, not happening anymore, ever. Try to find ANOTHER way to attack me. Btw, Mith knew I was 16 (or 17 now), but how? Oh, it's obvious, you are Mith!

I don't GIVE A SHIT. Visuals over dialog. Visuals over dialog.

[quot]e
Of course, biased Ricrery also ignores the massive shockwaves that cover the entire planet in seconds, suggesting teratons of firepower...but what's that? He only wants to take certain aspects of the nuclear explosion that he wants? Why, how very odd! It's almost as if he was trying to slant the debate in his favor instead of being honest and saying that the visuals were just fucked up![/quote]

You, like Scott Anderson (AKA retard for life) and Gene Roddenberry don't understand physics, AT ALL. If it was even kilotons, there would PLASMA IN THE ATMOSPHERE. I guess such simple logic is FAR TOO HARD for a little moron like you to understand.

No, you, Trektard, are arguing they do kilotons, when you haven't read the fucking books. Halo, actually has writers that understand physics, opposed to Star Trek.

Yeah, and you're crying that I make mistakes with ST.

Funny, in the 80s and 90s, people thought nukes could destroy the world. Do we have to take that literal too?

Yes, and Legends has the Arbiter taking down armies with 50 ft Hunters helping them. Legends is pretty much low canon at best.

If it was even that powerful, there would be plasma in the atmosphere, but there wasn't. If it was that powerful, there would be ejecta, but there wasn't. More and more you show your ignorance in physics.

No, math and scale. Both of which you fail at.

He said that was HIS account. So Mith, how much longer are you going to keep this charade up?

 

So Halo wins?

 

How about the Knower in the helljumper comic? with that kind of info, Halo can easily destroy Star Trek "down to the last DNA strand."

 

And what will happen if all the Star trek ships tried attacking the combined fire power of the Onyx Sentinels which numbers on the trillions due to the fact that Onyx is a planet made up of Sentinels and a Sentinel factory will keep on increasing that number.

 

But I still would not know if either side will win because they are both carefully well drawn out franchises. hey, here's an idea. what if we can put the creators of star trek and halo in a room and let them carry on the fight for us? so we will be "Finishing this Fight." like John-117 will be saying.

 

sorry if i stepped on anybody's toes in this forum

 

or debate