Halo vs Star Trek

Why would the borg even attack flood, flood are worth nothing but the flood wouldnt be able to use the borg so you would have a standing of 2 powerful spieces not fighting kinda scary yes one thing i like to say is that the human Halo fleet uses projectiles not lasors or plasma arcanic weapens and i haven't seen ST fleets shields do with projectiles so all this speculation is fun and i clap at those people who posted those long posts well done you put in effort to reply

 

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You know, I think that considering the subject matter and the fanaticism in here attempting to bring order would be somewhat futile.

It's a plasma torpedo, that means that somewhere inside that ball of plasma is a physical torpedo that keeps the plasma stable and superheated. Plasma on it's own would not be maneuvered with magnets, but the torpedo casing keeping the ball of plasma together can. What would be likely to happen is that the phaser would simply cut through the torpedo casing. I have seen them shot down plasma torpedos. Actually, have you seen the new star trek game, it explains a lot of stuff that didn't always make much sense. But yah, they have shot down plasma torpedos before.

Now, if you count the game as canon, which would make sense considering Paramount created the original concept and the weapons, shields, etc... for it. Than you do have a lot more advantages on the trek field.

according to the halo wiki the pulse laser is a covenant ship to ship weapon.

If halo wiki isn't right, than where do I find some other source that has all the information I need and is accurate?


I never said the plasma torpedo wasn't the average ship to ship weapon. actually it's one of like a couple ship to ship weapons that aren't crap and you don't need to spam them to do any amount of damage.

The fundamental problem is that shooting them down, and even dodging them is not much of a problem.

How do you know that exactly? Anti proton beams are extremely effective against shields and ships. Even shields use matter to work. A negatively charged proton would repel electrons and react with protons.

Besides the fact that I can't even find any info on covenant shields.

The fact is that yes, I'll need to take down your shields to do direct damage to the hull. But to say that anti protons can't tear your shields to pieces in a few short bursts is innaccurate. An anti proton is literally the antithesis of matter. Your shields use charged particles, ions, and even individual electrons for the most advanced ones. that is how shields work.

That is still matter, it may be charged matter, but it is still susceptible to anti protons.

To give you an idea, the planet killer fired a beam of antiprotons at a planet and destroyed it in a couple of seconds. TOS "The Doomsday Machine"

There was also the episode TNG "The Survivors"

Antiproton beam arrays became high end weaponry for warships in 2409.

The problem with this is that you can't say they can take massive damage because that is relative to halo. ie, massive damage to those ships would be a shot from a MAC, to a trek ship it wouldn't even affect the ship in any way.

 

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Ricrery, it doesn't matter if your weapons have gigatons of power. There are two things that determine their power, the most important is what kind of weapon, the second is the amount of destructive power.

For example, a 5 meter asteroid has the the same destructive energy in kilotons of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombs, but you don't see an atomic explosion every time one hits.

Ricrery, the advantage trek has isn't in some idiotic mass array of weapons that they use to tear open an enemy's shields.

Those require ridiculous amounts of energy and are pretty much worthless.

What trek focuses on is being agile, and using surgical strikes. You see, even if my phasers hit you in the megaton range, the damage they do is just as lethal as your weapons in the gigaton range.

The reason is that your weapons do an extremely poor job of converting destructive energy into damage.

Take for example your missiles. A missile explodes and creates a spherical explosion, as in the explosion is shot in all directions. The problem is that only the forward 30% to 50% of that explosion would actually impact the shield. That means that best case scenario you lose 50% of your destructive energy right than and there. The same rule applies to my torpedos, it is a sacrifice everyone makes with missiles and torpedos.

And yes that does just so happen include plasma torpedos.

You also suffer from a similar problem with lasers. The fact is your lasers by nature are ridiculously inefficient, you can pump a hundred megawatts of energy into a laser but by the time they hit my shields I only feel maybe a dozen megawatts. Lasers are not efficient, I do't know why the USNC would waste their time trying to make some, I could see the covenant doing so considering their all round lack of competance.

A phaser is nothing more than another stepping stone in beam technology.

laser -> phase cannon -> plasma cannon -> phaser array -> cutting beams -> tetryon beam array -> polaron beam array -> anti proton beam array.

The laser is simply at the bottom of the list.

Ricrery, you are argueing something that is futile. To put it in an analogy, you are argueing that 1,000 musketeers could take on two M1A1 Abrams tanks.

You may outnumber me by huge amounts, but the fact is that you are using outdated, obsolete, and pathetic technology. You can make your musket as big and powerful as you like, but at the end of the day you can fire at a range of 100 meters and my tanks can hit you from a few miles away.

It's actually a borg cutting beam, not a normal laser. This "laser" as you call it can cut an entire city and parts of a planet out of the ground with relative ease. There's nothing in the halo universe that can do that.

As I said before, gigaton doesn't count for sh!t. What matters is what type of weapon. You can fire the biggest cannon to ever be made, but at the end of the day a simple missile will beat you.

Your fighting a war with a race that is many times more advanced than you are.

Take for example the defiant class escort, you couldn't even hit it if you wanted to. And with it's phaser cannons and quantum torpedos it can tear you to pieces.

Actually the imperium has far more powerful weapons than those in halo.

take for example the lances. I believe you have rare weapons called energy projectors that are only placed on heavy battleships.

The average WH40k ship bristles with lances, and each lance turret has 3 to 4 energy projectors housed inside. I think we can do the math here, we have a covenant heavy battleship with an energy projector or two, and we have a WH40k cruiser with dozens of lance turrets each holding 3 to 4 individual energy projectors.

Now, I think through simple math the amount of weaponry I have far outnumbers the amount you have.

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Than we have the torpedos.

They use torpedos that are propelled by plasma reactors that double as their warhead. The smallest torpedos are a whoping 60 feet in length and the largest are around 300 feet in length. That is one hell of a f*cking bang when that hits a covenant battleship.

Nova cannons. Actually these are pretty similar to MAC cannons except they did the one thing that USNC didn't, the imperium improved the individual slug.

The MAC fires from 40% to 50% the speed of light and fires a 600 ton solid projectile. The Nova cannon fires their projectiles close to the speed of light. They use gravimetric impellers instead of magnetic coils in the MAC cannons. And instead of a solid slug the projectile actually implodes when it gets close to a ship with enough force to obliterate a ship and damage any other ships nearby.

Worse comes to worse, I have millions of ships, each one larger, with more armour, more shields, more weapons, and more marines than yours, I could just ram every single one of your ships and I would still have a million left over.

The covenant couldn't find their asses with two hands and their fanboys to help them.

The borg are a compilation of several thousand species and their technologies.

The borg use cutting beams, those are much different from a puny laser. Don't make me laugh.

No it doesnt. It takes four teratons with your primitive weaponry. Id say a few salvos of quantum torpedos, some phaser bursts, and your ship will have it's back broken piece of cake.

My weapons dont do brute force attacks, those attacks are pathetically inefficient and are pretty worthless. As you said before, it take four teratons to destroy your ships, 3.999 teratons of that are lost due to inherit inefficiency and primitive weaponry.

That's funny because I would be surprised to see a borg cube waste their time with you. Halo is primitive by borg standards, they have literally nothing worthwhile to offer. To put it simply, they are a waste of time.

So long as you do a kiloton worth of damage in the right place it can destroy a 100 km large ship.

There was a saying that was said by Doolittle before his raid on Japan. He said "The Japanese attack on Pearl was a sledgehammer to our fleet, this raid will be nothing more than a pinprick, but we will drive it straight through their heart."

You have your sledgehammer, and I have my pin. At the end of the day, you need to use a lot of energy to kill me with that sledgehammer, all I need is to push this little pin into your heart and I win.

 

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This is pointless. If I stated that a 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 yottaton laser is going to hit a ship with shields designed for 7 megawatts for phasers, what happens? For you, it would do nothing, for me, it would blow that ship to mother fucking painful hell. What happens if the 2 megawatts of phaser power hits the other ship? For you, it would crack open, for me, nothing. That's your problem, you are ignorant on power, a 24 megaton photon, even if better than a 200 gigaton plasma torpedo's ability to weaken ships, will still be laughable compared to hundreds of times its power. Hell, the Fed ships use NRF, while Covenant ships use DET, that's like comparing a match to a grenade, both destroy that box, but if you think they're equal, you must be full of shit.

AND? It still won't harm a ship. On the other hand, a "laser" from a Covenant cruiser will send the Borg to Cyborg hell. Because comparing a match to a grenade is laughable at best.

And comparing races that can generate no more than the Fat Man versus races that fire more than every nuclear armament in the world several times over in one shot makes me laugh. The Cardassian Dreadnought only does 42 GIGATONS, and this is IMPRESSIVE, compare that to 200 GIGATONS PER GUN. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Wrong example, you're better off comparing a match to a bomb. No matter how many matches you have, a bomb will best them.

You're fighting a war where everyone is stronger than you, most are faster than you, and don't have holes sticking out of their ships.

Less wank mister wanker. A 24 megaton torpedo would need to be thousands of times more efficient to defeat one cruiser, and since that's not the case,

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Are you that stupid? The Imperium uses projectiles and lasers, yet they are way more advanced than the Trekkers. I'd say it would take thousands of torpedoes to beat one ship, not a few. Do you know ANYTHING ABOUT CROSSOVERS? If you don't understand shit like that, I am not debating with you, because you're as biased as L-W is accurate. Then again, he proved how a Star Destroyer would massacre a Borg Cube, must be a fanboy HUH HUH HUH?

The Borg will be shitting themselves when they realize their weapons is useless against Covenant ships, while thousands of their planets are glassed1! Then when the last planet is left, the Borg will regret being so weak.

Well, Covenant ships have their command deck in the middle of the ships, so they can't hit that, now what? Considering these ships take shots that would damage the Earth's crust.

Too bad the Feds have nothing to pinprick, because Covenant use space stations hundreds of km large and only go on land when they need something (where they excel past Trek).

No, give me a nuclear tornado and I'll give you some leaves, and that's what will happen... Star Trek will get blown in the winds of a nuclear tornado (Halo)

 

Okay, how about I pull out the big guns than?

Planet destroyer, it fires a massive antiproton beam that literally obliterates a planet in seconds. It's armor is pure neutronium. That is the densest armour possible, it is literally pure neutrons compressed together. There is no weapon, halo, trek, death star, that can harm it.

Species 8472. The ultimate biological species. They are ridiculously strong and intelligent. They can change forms to put on disguises. You would find your precious covenant infiltrated full of 8472 before you even knew what the hell was going on. Their immune system can repel any chemical, biological, or technological attack (ie, nanoprobes) on their body. They have a poison that is incredibly lethal and will rip you to pieces. Their poison consists of cells from the being's body that enter your body and consume it from the inside out. They can rip through bulkheads and forceshields with ease.

Species 8472 bioships. These are biological ships created by 8472. They are extremely well armoured. They are armed to the teeth. Namely, their beam weapons can pierce any type of shields and saw through the target's hull. Don't pretend that halo's shields will offer any more resistance than mine. The hull is resistant to conventional weaponry, it can reflect sensor scans, rendering it invisible to sensors at all but close ranges, and it is immune to tractor beams. Each ship is around 30 meters long and has a single pilot. Nine of these fighter sized ships can combine their beams and destroy an entire planet with ease. You claim you can glass a planet in minutes, I can annihalate it to dust in seconds. In a short period of time no less than eight planets had been annihalated. They have no mercy for inferior species such as the covenant or USNC. We can grow all the bioships we need in fluidic space and send dozens of them after your fleets. They move too fast for MAC guns, plasma torpedos, or energy projectors. And the only other weapons you could use against them would be far too weak to do any damage. In three hits they would saw your battleships in pieces. A squadron of them will blast your planets to dust, and the sad thing is they move too fast for you to do anything about it. They resist sensor scans so you won't know they are coming till it's too late.

I figured you out Ricrery, you won't listen to me unless I bring out my big guns, well I am bringing em out.

Q. Well one of them will simply snap his/her finger and your entire fleet, the entire USNC, the entire covenant, flood, halos, everything, is gone. Pretty self explanatory there.

Tri cobalt torpedos, we can literally rip apart subspace with these. 20,000 teracochranes of destructive power. This will take your entire fleet and reduce it to ash with a mere half dozen torpedos.

The Metryon Cascade, this can obliterate 99.9% of all life on a planet, and any survivors are extremely irradiated.

Thaloron radiation. This literally takes all biological matter it comes into contact with and turns it pretty much to ash. It creates and extremely advanced stage of necrosis, a ridiculously tiny dose will render a person terminally ill.

Phased Polaron cannon. These things can cut straight through your shields without losing any energy. They pierce the shields to do direct damage to the hull. They are standard armament on the thousands of dominion warships.


There are a lot of other things I can bring to the battlefield that can wipe out your entire civilizations without flinching or seconds thoughts.

You lose Ricrery. You challenged me to trek, I tried to keep it even, but because of you the gloves come off.

 

The big mistake you made was that I am not holding back. You've shown all your cards, you haven't even seen my winning hands yet

 

Wrong. S8472 required NRF to destroy the planet, that is next to harmless to Halo ships. Oh snap! Add in I can use the NOVA bomb and blow all the bastard humanobugs to fluidic hell, which will all happen in fluidic space. Actually, all of your weapons are either chemical based or chain reaction based. That's why Trek is weak, it's weapons are so laughable by even BSG standards, that it requires Roddenberry(who gets laughed at by scientists) to make up some cheap superweapons. The only one the impressed me was Tri cobalt, and I can't find them on the web.

As for the planet destroyer, a few slipspace teleport next to it will highly damage, if not destroy it. Hell, Forerunner ships killed stars with that technique.

My cards are still good.

 

By the way, you know you can just do

 

True, but as long as we just ignore any idiots/trolls things should be ok.

Incorrect. The Plasma Toredpo is nothing more than a ball of dense super heated gas has shown in every book.

Just because it has the word "Torpedo" in the name means nothing. As an example look at Blaster "Rifles", Phaser "Rifles", Plasma "Rifles", and Turbo"lasers". The first three may be called rifles, but being energy weapons the barrel does not have to be rifled like ones that shoot soild bullets. And like the laser in Turbo"laser" we know it is not really a laser because it acts nothing like a laser: It doens't move at C in vacuum. It can be seen from the side in vacuum unlike a real laser.

The ships that fire the plamsa generate the magnetic field from the Plasma Turrets.

You mean the ones used in IIRC Balance of Terror?

Star Trek Online? No, I would have checked it out, but I'm still stuck on dial-up at this time. Just tell me were to go and I'll look it over.

Hm, I would see no reason not too. Plus I find it nice they are explain things that didn't make sense before. Now if only they make VOY and ENT non-canon so everyone can stop trying to remove their eyes when those shows come on...

Will as I said they have only been used against the unshielded ships of the UNSC and never against capital-grade objects with shields. Same thing for ST, shields go down Borg cutting lasers sliced them up.

Eh, you can use it but just remember to take pretty much everything with one giant grain of salt. If anything you get from there is wrong I'll notice and give the correct info.

True, but I don't see what is crap about any other Halo space weapons really other than the fact a MAC gun is unguided.

No, dodging them at closer ranges is going to be hell because they can quickly accelerate PT up to half the speed of light as seen in the novel The Fall of Reach.

IIRC Covenant shields are always refer to as "energy shields" which suggest they just use energy really. Plus I must point to the TOS Dooms Day Machine which didn't seem very strong against ships at least as long as shields were up compared to what it did to all those planets.

Will as I said we don't know that much about them.

Will as I recall in TOS the Dooms Day Machine didn't do as well against shielded targets as agaisnt planets... but then it has been sometime since I watched plus the fact the only time I can see it is at 1 in the morning on Saturday.

Will I'm going off of what I remember of the Dooms Day Machine vs shielded targets in TOS, but as I said I might just be recalling it incorrectly.

As I recall it was cutting chunks out of the planet befoe eatting them and took in the area of at several hours to completely devour a world. And once again we also see shielded ships withstand its firepower.

I'll make sure to check that episode out later.

*Takes notes* Are they more effective agaisnt shields then the TOS DDM weapon was?

That is only because the round would not hit the main shields it seems because of the Nav Deflector. On the other hand Trek ships are not used to facing enemy forces using very powerful DET energy weapons weapons like 40K, only weaker in this case. The Covenant are just going to rip them apart.

 

I'm sorry, WTF are you rambling on about? 8472 could kick your ass without breaking a sweat end of story

 

The funny thing is 99.9% of that is bullsh1t.

You make so much crap up it's unbelievable.

 

Ricrery, you don't know any of these things as facts. 99% of what you say is bullsh1t that is made up.

First off, the fact is so long as I put it in the right form I could blow up a capitol ship with one kiloton of energy. It just needs to be in the right form.


The fact is that an anti proton beam at 25 gigawatts causes a whole ton more damage than a MAC gun at 1.7 teratons. End of story. It's just how it works.

For example. a few kilotons of destructive power in a kinetic projectile say a 5 meter asteroid is enough to destroy a car or maybe even a tank. That same amount of destructive power in an atomic bomb can level a city. The fact is that a bomb with .005 tons of power can do more damage than an asteroid with several kilotons of power.

The fact is that you are argueing that all that matters is the potential energy, that is completely incorrect. What matters is what type of weapon it is.

It is all about how you connect that amount of power to physical damage. The weapons in star trek do an extremely good job connecting destructive potential to damage. The fact is that star trek does not focus on pumping more and more energy into weapons, that is a complete waste of time. It focuses on making weapons that focus more of their potential destructive energy into damage.

So in reality, just as a .0000005 kiloton bomb can do more damage than an asteroid with several kilotons of destructive power, my weapons can do more damage than yours even if you put more energy into your.

Take for example your MAC guns, they fire several teratons of power and I can stop them easily with my deflector array. The MAC gun does a good job of making that potential destructive energy, but against my technology it does a pathetic job of converting that to damage.

Your weapons are limited to kinetic projectiles, lasers, and plasma torpedos.

Those are incredibly innefficient weapons, they do a poor job of converting potential destructive energy to damage.

You couldn't kill a borg if you wanted to. All your weapons have a single premade modulation. You can't change that. If you are lucky you may destroy a cube, but every cube that comes after that will be immune to those weapons you used, and considering the competance of halo it won't be like them to fire one type of weapons for one battle and switch to another. And even than, you have like half a dozen energy weapons to switch between. and your projectile and missile based weaponry can hardly be considered effective. All you have are plasma torpedos, and the fact is that plasma torpedos don't do a fraction of the damage against my shields as you think they do.

That's not to say they aren't effective, they sure as hell are. But the fact is your making them out to be weapons that can destroy my ships in a few hits, they really arent.

 

That actually begs the question of why not just jam them with the deflector array? Sure I couldn't control them, but the conflict of my magnetic fields and the launching ship's magnetic fields would pretty much eliminate the threat.

Look up "star trek online wiki" and it has a bunch of info on weapons, shields, ships, etc...

I may be wrong, but Im pretty sure the borg cutting beams can penetrate shields...

Anyways, they do have lots of other types of weaponry, gravimetric torpedos, magnetometric guided charges, shield neutralizers, tractor beams etc...

I meant ships like the defiant. Also it said that they had a hard time hitting things that were flying at wierd angles or maneuvors, the defiant class starship and species 8472 bioships can handle that.

Yah, usually I find it is often implied that "energy" in the shields only refers to how the ions or electrons are suspended. Because when you think about it "energy shields" is pretty damn unspecific. Usually what it refers to is electromagnetic energy that suspends fields of free floating electrons like the earth's magnetosphere. The fact that i have found is that energy can't block lasers, phasers, kinetic projectiles, etc. Only something with some form of mass can affect those sorts of things.

It really is too darn unspecific.

That's wierd because it seemed to me that the Doomsday machine was extremely effective. In a short fight with the Defiant (the constitution class starship) the Defiant was disabled with a disabled warp core, no communications, no weapons, no impulse or warp drive, and pretty much no power. While the doomsday machine sustained no damage.

No I think that's the borg, they cut up big chunks of a planet with their cutting beams (like entire cities in a single chunk). Though they dont eat the whole planet.

The Doomsday machine blew up the planet first and than devoured the rubble.

memory alpha probably has a summary of the episode if you want to read it.

 

BULLSHIT. A CHAIN REACTION IS NOT BRUTE FORCE! And therefor, a fleet of 8472 ships would be lucky to scratch a Covenant ship. And if they do scratch that paint, they will be hit so hard, the Enterprise will blow up while in warp. That's my imitating your wankery.

 

I just laughed when you stated that Borg can adapt to Covenant weapons. No they can't! I hope you learn that Borg can't beat Isaac Asimov's Galactic Empire or the Culture, I am not debating. Hell, I bet you'd assume Borg ships can adapt to Gridfire. I already stated 156 gigatons per gun >>>>>>>>>>> 6 gigatons per Photon Torpedo salvo.

 

It's not a chain reaction though, loser.

A single 8472 bioship can saw your precious ship in half.

Hah, their 30 meters long and maneuvor faster than your fighters, you couldnt hit them if you tried.

You over estimate the pathetic competance of the covenant.


Do you know how f*cking weak the covenant is? The USNS can hold them back and the best weaponry they have are primitive projectile weapons. The average covenant officer is dumb as a rock.

 

It doesnt matter how much power you put in your guns. so long as my shield frequency is in the right place your guns literally cannot do any damage.

Ricrery, you know nothing of the physics involved in your lame ass arguements.

Ricrery, I win you lose. End of story, if you say your ships are strong because they can glass a planet in a few minutes (which is indirect damage at best), my ships are even stronger because they can reduce said planet to dust in seconds.

 

Lies? The Feds and Klingons combined could only create clouds over a planet when bombarding it. Lying fanboy. Forerunner engines destroy stars, got any wank that Roddenberry needs to beat that? Hell, Roddenberry doesn't know shit about physics himself, the ignorant just assume Trek technobabble if true, while it is some the most fictional piece of shit you can think of.

 

If it can't saw ships that can take no more than a terawatt, how is it going to saw ships that take teratons? OH SNAP, FANBOY HAS TO MAKE AN EXCUSE TO ANSWER THIS.

And they can't scratch the paint of a cruiser.

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No I don't. I don't even like Halo that much, but I know teraton(Halo durability) > gigaton > megaton(Heavier ST durability) > kiloton (ST durability).

Besides, The Covenant weren't even losing until the Great Schism, which separated half the Covenant.

You're ignorance of somethings is disturbing, you know that? IMPERIUM weapons are massive projectiles, and some dumbass from STO forums stated the Federation was way more advanced and that Imperium weapons couldn't harm Fed ships. You are using the same BS. 10 teraton projectiles > 24 megaton torpedoes, anyone can understand frequencies won't change the scale.

 

Oh, and too add, Riker was impressed by the Husnock's ability to bombard a planet, whereas what we saw was laughable and weak compared to Covenant glassing, so Covenant AGAIN prove their superiority.