Greatest I Am's anti-religion thread

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Greatest I am, May 3, 2017.

  1. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    Does this mean you presume yourself capable of performing miracles? Are you able to take upon yourself the sin of the world?

    You are treading a narrow line between the idea of us all being "made in Gods image" and being the literal "Son of God".
     
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  3. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    If miracles were real, and since scriptures say that any true believer can do as Jesus did, that would mean that there are no true believers since no one is doing any miracles.

    That last quote I put in the O.P. says that we can all be literal sons of God and brethren to Jesus.

    Seems you are not ready to even try.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  5. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    *shrug* I am well aware of my insufficiency - should God call me to do something miraculous, I am more than willing to try; however, I also am humble enough to know that I am hardly on Jesus level.
     
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  7. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Seems that you do not even believe in Jesus or you would be able to do what he says you can do if you believe.

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    You are confusing belief in someone/something else with belief in ones self - I merely have not yet come to believe myself to be, as one might say, "good" enough to perform such actions. I doubt myself more than anything else, a shortcoming I am well aware of.

    I have also struggled with the concept of grace at times... the thought that an innocent man had to die to cleanse me of my own inadequacies and sin... it took a while for me to reconcile that with my worldview.
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    It would seem he felt he only needed one example.

    Non sequitur. I had only one lunch today, does that mean I am "limited" to only one? No, it means I chose to have only one.

    No.

    Non sequitur. The conclusion does not follow from the premise.

    Within my yard can only exist one bouncy castle. Does it follow that the bouncy castle can contain only one ball?




    Is this thread anything more than preaching? I mean, you look like you're asking questions, but then you answer them yourself (albeit with logical holes, through which one could drive a truck).
     
  10. Thomas Cranmer Registered Member

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    61
    Jesus was (and is) one of the three persons in God and has always existed. He is called the Son of the Father simply to make his role easier to understand. It is through the Son that we can become reconciled to the Father. The Holy Spirit is here to guide us to the truth and sustain us. There are three kinds of Sons of God. Jesus is unique and is the highest kind. The second, middle kind refers to Sons such as Adam, Abraham, Moses, David, Paul etc.. These are specially chosen Sons of God, but they are ordinary humans appointed by God. The lowest kind are all remaining Sons.
     
  11. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    53,152
    Just different gods in the end, like Hinduism or Paganism.
     
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  12. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Thou doust not have The Sandels of Miracles

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    I think jesus christ was a metaphor for a god being born in human form to understand the struggles and pain of existence on this plane. Only a god who can put themselves in the shoes of it's creation and how it may be unethical can create a better system. this is why he said that he goes to create a better place and to have hope.

    all those movies such as saw, hostel and starve etc are analogies to what we experience and the inherent dynamic of existence here. it pits us against each-other for survival. in some movies there are quotes that illustrate such metaphors such as 'we have all become god's madmen' as it's easy for a god to be detached and use people for it's games or amusement. the man-made colosseum in history also illustrates that as well as a microcosm as it pit animals against animal, animal against people, people against animal and people against people for survival while those in power view with amusement out of harm's way. this is the system where we essentially exist.

    we can recognize this is wrong on an abstract and fundamental level but we must endure it or manage it as best as possible. we can't fix the system entirely as we don't have the power to but we can try and minimize the suffering or gratuitously add more as we are all in this together. we can try and be less greedy, less exploitive and more ethical.

    this is not forever but i personally find it sad that such a place does and can exist even by accident and even worse, i hope, not by design.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  14. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    That is because you are on the wrong path.

    Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

    So why would you want to do that immoral thing?

    You might watch this Bishop before you reply.



    Regards
    DL
     
  15. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    DaveC426913

    Non sequitur.

    You ignore ----

    Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    -- and would leave Jesus hanging without brethren.

    Let me know it you want to discus without dismissing things without an argument against.

    Regards
    DL
     
  16. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    "Thomas Cranmer, post: 3460212, member: 286190"]Jesus was (and is) one of the three persons in God and has always existed. He is called the Son of the Father simply to make his role easier to understand. It is through the Son that we can become reconciled to the Father. The Holy Spirit is here to guide us to the truth and sustain us. There are three kinds of Sons of God. Jesus is unique and is the highest kind. The second, middle kind refers to Sons such as Adam, Abraham, Moses, David, Paul etc.. These are specially chosen Sons of God, but they are ordinary humans appointed by God. The lowest kind are all remaining Sons.[/QUOTE]

    So God has some sons who are better than others.

    So much for God's perfection.

    As to your off topic Tr4inity concept.



    What do you make of these?

    Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Regards
    DL
     
  17. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Eh, no.

    Regards
    DL
     
  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't ignore; you made statements that logically do not follow.

    Quoting from the book without providing context is not a response; it is merely preaching.


    Let me know if you want to discuss instead of just preach.

    By the way, Jesus was not an only child. He had several siblings.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  19. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    I agree with your first but your view of our poor reality is not correct.

    Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
    If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
    Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
    [Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
    But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
    As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty.

    Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
    Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?

    Candide.
    "It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

    That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand. That is an irrefutable statement.



    Regards
    DL
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    9,204
    It is quite easily refuted. The premises are not granted, therefore the conclusion does not follow.

    All things were not created for some end.
    Even if they were, it does not follow that they must be created for the "best" end.
    "Best" is subjective. What is best for me, is not what is best for you.
     
  21. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    53,152
    Uh, yeah. Jesus, Mary, John, Moses, the saints, they are part of the Catholic pantheon of gods. Of course they say it's different from the Roman gods with Zeus at the top, but I don't see the difference.
     
  22. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077

    No, it's not irrefutable but i understand where you are coming from and people need to make the best of it or look at what is good to continue to be positive or else all is lost or worse. but for me, i need to acknowledge it for what it is and i don't have a problem with seeing it as imperfect, actually it keeps me sober, grounded and better able to handle the ills life may throw at me. when i was in a pollyanna state, it was worse for me and i attracted more worse because i was more vulnerable. what works for one person may not work exactly the best for another because everyone's situation is different as well as what they may have experienced or be a target of in this universe.
     
  23. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Your last is true.

    Your rest does not refute and only denies without argument.

    Strange that you would think that life would strive to be less than the best. That would take a really strange life form.

    Regards
    DL
     

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