Gravitational waves from black hole merger

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Plazma Inferno!, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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  3. river Valued Senior Member

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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I've given you a link...at least 20 scientific papers, more or less for you to research.......
    C'mon river old Son......You can do better than that!
     
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  7. river Valued Senior Member

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    The link is this site thread. Do better pad.
     
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The link is to a thread on this site river, with many links therein to reputable papers and articles.
    What's wrong with these research abilities you so often tell us "disbelievers in your paranormal and other nonsense about.
    Just empty bluster?

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  9. river Valued Senior Member

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    pad ; why always bring up this paranormal interest ; which I have ; as argument against what I post ?

    Young people have much more open mind than the older people do; good thing.
     
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Simply because of the games you play....again there are many links within the link I gave you explaining why the recent aLIGO experiment confirmed GW's and as a result BH's.
    That may well be true, but it doesn't mean that most young people support the paranormal nonsense you support.
    Ever hear of Brian Cox? and there are many more like him.
     
  11. river Valued Senior Member

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    What is this ; aLIGO experiment?

    Never heard of Brian Cox , from anybody.
     
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    And yet you continually ignorantly deride accepted mainstream cosmology!

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    That deserves another

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  13. river Valued Senior Member

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    Well pad ; fill me in ; who is this guy; and why is he so important?
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    river you claim to be a skilled researcher, a claim I certainly do not believe.
    So do your own research, because I'm certainly not jumping through your hoops.
    I also did not claim the guy was "so important" as you claim. You made the silly unsupported claim that young people are more open minded, meaning of course that young people are more readily to accept the nonsense you accept....That at best is unsupported nonsense, and at worst a porky pie. Brian Cox is young and a mainstream physicist among many others.
    And of course on your usual denial of anything mainstream, in this case gravitational lensing and gravitational waves, you offer again as usual, nothing more than words and rants.
    There are at least two threads supporting both with many reputable links as to why they are accepted.
    Not sure though who you believe you are fooling with all this tooing and froing, or who you are trying to convince, other than yourself, but you should be aware with the many comments that have been made on your behaviour, that you are fooling no one else.
     
  15. river Valued Senior Member

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    You are fooling yourself pad; it's obvious.
     
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Not really. If that was the case so would most of mainstream science be fooling itself.
    Obviously the more logical apparent fact is as I have stated before....You simply have a bee in your bonnet about science in general, as its methodology and logic, assigns your beliefs re ghosts, goblins and the supernatural to conspiracies and pseudoscience.
    At the same time, you refuse to answer many questions concerning your unscientific objections to gravitational waves and lensing.
     
  17. BdS Registered Senior Member

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    So what and where did they detect?
    If there is o difference before and after merger whats the article about?
    If we cant detect any gravity from BH's 1.3 billion miles away, what are they doing to detect gravity waves?


    The OP says, "News that twin LIGO stations detected gravitational waves from nearby binary black hole merger".
     
  18. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    What - gravity waves
    Where - Washington state and Louisiana.
    There is zero measurable differences in gravity from earth.
    The article is about gravity waves. We cannot detect the gravity but we can detect the gravity waves from the black holes.
    We detected the expansion and contraction of space time as the gravity waves passed the detectors. The expansion and contraction of space time is analogous to sound waves which is are waves of higher and lower compression of the air
     
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  19. sweetpea Registered Senior Member

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    I'm no expert but...
    In theory the gravitational field of any body extends to infinity. The gravitational field of the whole black hole system has now decreased because mass and energy was lost during the merger.

    Because of the great distance from earth, the field of the black hole pair is so weak as as not to be measurable, but in theory it's here.
    What the merger brought about was a 'redistribution' of mass and energy of the black hole system, and for a tiny moment the dynamical process of redistribution in such a small area (merger) caused a large disturbance of the existing field. This disturbance was the cause of the gravitational waves.
     
  20. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Correct.
    Correct.
    OK, but the gravity from your computer on you is greater than the gravity from the black hole.
    The gravity waves detected were produced from the orbits of the black holes just before they merged.
     
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  21. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    I probably should have said decaying orbits.
     
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  22. sweetpea Registered Senior Member

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    I can accept that, but have a look at fig 3. here... http://www.ligo.org/science/Publication-GW150914/index.php
    If I'm understanding that fig.3 right, the largest 'spike' was at point of merger.
    I think I can see, if you mean they were moving their fastest at point of merger, the shock of the 'sudden halt' of orbits so to speak.
    Ps. Decaying orbits to you too

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    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2016
  23. The God Valued Senior Member

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    An accelerating charged particle radiates EM radiation, extending the same philosophy an accelerating mass, should radiate the Gravitational Radiation.

    But then there is an inherent problem in this argument. Say, an electron in the orbit is accelerating (although QM has changed it all), so it must radiate the EM radiation and should produce decaying orbits and must collapse into nucleus...But it does not happen.

    Exending the same philosophy, the earth also should radiate Gravitational radiation and slowly collapse into sun, there are certain unverifiable figures for this decay. But the problem is there is no acceleration in GR ? Kind of GR guys are falling back to classical Newtonian Mechanics to bring in the concept of force and acceleration and thus Gravitational Radiation. The Gravitational radiation and GW thereof, is more precsiely linked with angular momentum in this case.

    Another fundamental problem with BH BH merger is that BH is a critically curved spacetime, mass extraction or loss of mass is meaning less as we are not aware of the whereabouts of mass once it is inside EH, so the field concept is brought in, that is rotational energy, gravitational energy, electric field etc all reside outisde the point of no return, for that we have ergosphere etc. All mathematical stuff. So stating that accelerating mass produces gravitational radiation is not applicable here, where is the mass ? And what is the meaning of accelerating spacetime with various fields ? What is the meaning of extracting angular momentum from the spacetime ? What is the meaning of orbital motion of critical curved spacetime ? What is the meaning of decay of orbit of the critically curved spacetime ? All theories to salvage some non existent BH. We all know that to hold on to one lie or one inaccuracy, we will have to weave around hundreds of lies. And thats what is happening.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
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