# Gravitational Time Dilation

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by RajeshTrivedi, May 4, 2015.

Not open for further replies.
1. ### wellwisherBannedBanned

Messages:
5,160
If you look at the sun, the center of gravity (bottom of space-time well) is where the nuclear fusion occurs; with the gamma frequencies, related to the fusion among the fastest EMR frequencies. Time ticks are speeding up, in terms of matter/energy/fusion/frequency, but time is slowing in terms of space-time. Space-time is a mathematical construct, while the frequency of energy is a tangible thing, you can save in a beaker.

If we extrapolate frequency, from the sun;s core, to the neutron star, to the black hole, space-time may contract toward zero, but frequency would be getting faster and faster. This is due to work and energy conservation; tangible things.

The way I model tangible time; frequency, is to add another element of time to space-time; space-time-time, with this also defining acceleration. Gravity is an acceleration and force due to space-time-time, impacting both space-time and the frequency of matter/energy, by generating pressure.

Since a blackhole can form from finite mass, finite mass can't generate infinite pressure. This means that although space-time may mathematically contract to zero, space-time-time can never reach infinite acceleration, because the two time elements are going in opposite directions and washing each other out.

I am adding a tangible expression of time to the analysis. This may be taboo if the model expects only abstract time and does not allow a tangible clock that will be the same in all references.

Last edited: May 7, 2015

3. ### OnlyMeValued Senior Member

Messages:
3,914
Yes, Rajesh. I don't believe that a mathematical point singularity represents anything real! I also have some difficulties with the event horizon... But I understand why both are predicted by GR and I have no realistic alternate theory of gravity.

I do know that if GR is correct in its prediction that mass can collapse, creating an event horizon at Rs and a singularity at R=0, no material object can exist inside Rs. Likely even inside a radius somewhat greater than 4/3Rs...

I don't have an answer to my own questions. I spend a significant portion of my time studying some of the work that has and is been being done in the area of quantum gravity, in the hope that answers will emerge. That is very difficult for me because much of the math is more difficult than even GR and lies in an area of physics and math that I was not really interested in when I was actively studying the subjects in my youth.

5. ### originIn a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect.Valued Senior Member

Messages:
10,450
That is absurd! Higher energy and higher frequencies does not mean time is 'speeding up'. How could you even make a claim like that? That is like saying when it is hotter outside and the air molecules are moving faster that time is speeding up. This is crazy talk, and has no place in the science section of the forum, it belongs in the cesspool.
Holy crap that is so wrong it is not just funny it is funny-funny.

Last edited: May 7, 2015

7. ### brucepValued Senior Member

Messages:
4,098
Keep in mind all these Professors are working off the Schwarzschild coordinates. Spherically symmetric, nonrotating, no charge. That's the simplest to work with. The answers for rotating and charged black holes are different. None of them would support any bullshit Rajesh is slinging.

Messages:
21,703

Yep, of course brucep. Rajesh is like the other alternative hypothesis pushers we have had here....The chinglu's, the undefined's, the constant theorist's, and a few others whom I have forgotten.
It's forums such as this [or dodgy publishers of scientific papers] that are the only outlet these fools have...
Then of course we have the bleeding hearts that claim I am too hard on the poor little souls.

In the mean time science and scientists proceed on as normal, while these fools [and their supporters] continue to languish in mediocrity with zero accomplishment.
And that is certainly no good for their inflated egos.

9. ### brucepValued Senior Member

Messages:
4,098
The amazing thing about the auto bot is it has an answer for every question. All wrong in spectacular detail.

10. ### brucepValued Senior Member

Messages:
4,098
I hate to say this but the accomplishment is to dominate these threads with nonsense. The way you stop that is you don't let them post after they've made it clear they're not really interested in science and coherent debate. You've learned much so they've failed to change your path a single cm.

11. ### KristofferGiant HyraxValued Senior Member

Messages:
1,233
Are the decepticons right?

12. ### brucepValued Senior Member

Messages:
4,098
I'm not sure. I think the decepticons are left.

13. ### danshawenValued Senior Member

Messages:
3,950
When a thread such as this one starts to bring the issue of time into the discussion, it's 'time' to give it up.

There was a time (that word again) I thought time was related to energy propagation in the vacuum. It is, but the fundamental concept of time is meaningless without a consideration of the speed of entanglement, currently estimated to be in excess of 10,000 times faster than the speed of light in a vacuum.

Look-- time is about change; we can all agree on that concept, right? If something in the universe was capable of changing faster than time itself, well, that would just be silly, wouldn't it? Build a quantum entanglement clock that works faster than light in a vacuum. It's the first instrument you will need to investigate such things. Don't expect this will be an easy task. In this universe, in order for something to move at any rate, however small the increment, something even smaller must have moved by an even smaller increment first. That's just the Xeno paradox. Quantum entanglement too has a clockwork mechanism. What is it?

Even philosophers know that you can't really discuss something you haven't fully defined, and so any further discussion of time is therefore pointless because no one here has been able to do that.. Go observe and learn more about entanglement (BOTH energy and matter). Then talk about how time is related to that, if it is not something that is classified, which, by the way, it already is.

Last edited: May 8, 2015
dumbest man on earth likes this.
14. ### RajeshTrivediValued Senior Member

Messages:
1,525
And these stupid kids will continue to babble that they understand GR / SR, my foot they understand.........See OnlyMe (#62) has fallen in line and admitted that he has questions for which he knows no answer and neither he is equipped....possibly he lacks the courage or fear of getting ridiculed which is stopping him from asking questions.........I can only pity people like Paddoboy, Origin and Brucep.....for their complete intellectual surrender.

Paddoboy can be pardoned as he is illiterate, Origin shockingly an engineer, don't know this left over stupid wind Brucep, if he has any academic qualification....

15. ### RajeshTrivediValued Senior Member

Messages:
1,525

Stupid wind !! Your accomplishment is doing a calculations twice over and getting two different answers 36 Hrs apart.......By the way kiddo, what is the significant of 72 Hrs of your EH time to you ? 3 Days ?? As if Sun rise and Sun Set is happening inside EH !!!

16. ### RajeshTrivediValued Senior Member

Messages:
1,525

You are banging the wrong door !! By the way if possible share what you are studying.........

Messages:
21,703
Yet paddoboy has put it over you in all your threads and all ably supported by all Professors. In fact two recommend in no uncertain terms that you need to study the first concepts of SR/GR.

You are certainly no "has been" Rajesh.....more like a "never was"
Oh I forgot to ask, since I'm not the flavour of the month in your eyes now, who have you moved up there?

Best of luck on your next paper. We'll probably have that one in pride of place in the bathroom!

18. ### OnlyMeValued Senior Member

Messages:
3,914
From your post above, it does not seem to me you understood what I was saying, even though there was no math!

The portions of my earlier post in bold below are things you don't seem to be able to understand or come to grips with.

19. ### OnlyMeValued Senior Member

Messages:
3,914
Rajesh.., you have not demonstrated that you understand SR and GR.., even Newtonian Mechanics. Given that, and the fact that I admit that I struggle with what I can understand of the work being done in quantum gravity.., which is but a small corner of what there is, why would you believe that I or anyone would expect that if I could explain it, there is any possibility that you would understand?

20. ### sweetpeaValued Senior Member

Messages:
1,047
Crank reservation site...What have you got against science JamesR?
I remember reading somewhere on this reservation of yours that you tolerate more 'shit' than most forums. Why am I addressing you, your top dog mod.

21. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

Messages:
2,973
says the inexperienced...[what ? , not sure, but i do for sure know inexperienced of basic science let alone the actual knowledge.].
please show what experience you have as an actual scientist.
also please show what qualifications you have in order to ridicule actual established science and scientist. because i see no such thing, just meaningless piss-ant spewing, nothing more.(shrugs)

22. ### brucepValued Senior Member

Messages:
4,098
Idiot wind dummy. Your scholarship level on these subjects you profess to understand is 0.

23. ### KristofferGiant HyraxValued Senior Member

Messages:
1,233
Sockpuppet with an axe to grind?