Good/bad SciFi concepts: Star Gate vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Dinosaur, May 15, 2014.

  1. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    I enjoyed both Star Gate & Star Trek, but considered the Star Trek Transporter to be a very bad concept. While I doubt that either device will ever be possible, the Star Trek Transporter was an absolutely ridiculous device.

    A Star Gate transported to another Star Gate. Receiving equipment existed at the destination.

    The Star Trek Transporter sent people/objects to a destination with no receiving equipment. This is magic, not SciFi.​

    Another issue I have with the Star Trek Transporter is the data & real-time requirements of constructing a human being.

    The Star Gate used a worm hole concept. Id est: Objects/people were not constructed at the destination.

    The Transporter required objects/people to be constructed at the destination. For inanimate objects, construction might not be a serious problem. For people, the construction would have to be done in less than a few hundred milliseconds; Circa 200-500 nanoseconds might be a better estimate of the real time requirements. Brain functions occur very rapidly; A partially constructed brain might perform functions which would interfere with the proper functioning of the fully constructed brain.​

    Furthermore, the specifications describing a human being include formidable requirements relating to data collection & storage.
     
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  3. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Truth be told, the Star Trek transporter really only runs into a handful of issues:
    1) Energy to Matter reconstruction (we can't do that... yet)
    2) Storage (storing the information contained in a human body, much less the entire mind, would take a LOT of space)
    3) Heisenberg uncertainty principle
    Other than that, not all that far fetched

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    ...

    So, yeah, we're a ways off of that lol
     
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed...Why we already have quantum teleportation taking place with fundamental matter.
    A long way to go, but who knows, in a thousand years?
     
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  7. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Well, the truly big issue with it is simply that, while we could break you down and transmit you today (albeit with prohibitively expensive and complicated equipment), the problem is we would wind up with "you goo" on the other end, due to the uncertainty principle.

    That, and 3D printing is only so advanced right now - while we can do polypeptide chains and basic proteins, human tissue is a bit out of our league so far.
     
  8. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Paddoboy: A copout sort of remark.
    If I questioned the possiblity of magical Pixie Dust, you would probably make the same remark.
     
  9. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Er... what?
     
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    No not in the least, in fact that's a rather stupid analogy.
    Fact: Experiments [as I have alluded to] are being conducted, and have had limited success in transporting.

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    The seminal paper first expounding the idea was published by C. H. Bennett, G. Brassard, C. Crépeau, R. Jozsa, A. Peres and W. K. Wootters in 1993.[4] Since then, quantum teleportation has been realized in various physical systems. Presently, the record distance for quantum teleportation is 143 km (89 mi) with photons,[5] and 21 m with material systems.[6] In August 2013, the achievement of "fully deterministic" quantum teleportation, using a hybrid technique, was reported

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_teleportation
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    As time goes on, more and more success is probably.
    Like I said, in a thousand years, who knows?

    Not too sure though about your pixy dust, and any experiments confirming it.

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  11. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Holy hell... I knew that they were dabbling with transporting photons, but I didn't realize they had managed it with a more matter-based system. Granted, the last time I had really delved into it was three or four years ago, but none the less, sweet sweet progress!
     
  12. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    KittaMaru: From your Post #8
    Sarcasm?

    To the best of my knowledge, they are merely transporting information using entangled particles. Check the following.
     
  13. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    KittaMaru BTW: Paddoboy's link merely refers to transporting information, not particles or photons.
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    No one said it is going to be easy....But you should note, that none of the articles are saying it will always be Impossible.
    As with the silly analogy you applied, you seem to saying it is totally impossible.
    Nothing against the laws of physics forbids such technology.

    I also often see the need to repeat the thoughts and opinions of an otherwise great scientists...a fellow called Lord Kelvin, who said in 1897 words to the effect that manned flight as Impossible.
    He also had an opinion on X-Rays, as being a useless novelty...or some such thing.
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The other Star Trek "science" that invokes plenty of debate is the Replicator.
    Nanotechnology has come a long way, but we still have a way to go yet.
    Imagine, putting some dirt, grass clippings and such inside a microwave size machine, pressing a button, and having a T-Bone steak delivered fresh out the other end.
    Nanotechnology to the nth degree admittedly, but again, not against any law of physics as far as I know.
     
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The science enabling stellar travel, within reasonable time frames at "c" and FTL is the ultimate science from Star Trek.
    Again, at least a few centuries away, but worth noting that NASA's JPL and Glenn laboratories are researching on such alternative propulsion means as the Alcubierre drive.
    Again, not against the laws of physics, but probably requiring a whole new physics scenario to eventually achieve.
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Finally to avoid the crew being spattered against the walls, at "c" and FTL speeds and acceleration and decceleration, we have the "Inertial Dampeners".....Most probably some form of electromagnetic field or such.

    If we can avoid any astronomical catastrophe and our own stupid human follies, the future will be something to look forward to!
     
  18. kmguru Staff Member

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    A different kind of Good Item

    As I was listening to Hercules (whose soul moves to heaven as god when his mortal body passes away) and actuality of a real person...I am thinking this from Star Trek stories...

    It is just an idea, no point beating me up....as some of our people do...

    Imagine, when we have major space ship capabilities, what if one group show up here? Possible...

    What if they already sent their people in soul form to Earth some 100 years before? They are now people.

    This is the case, when one understands that our subconscious is a separate entity in the cloud that absorbed the knowledge as human passes away...

    Then, it would be easier to connect to other civilizations in the galaxy.

    Just some thoughts....
     
  19. Enmos Staff Member

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  20. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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  21. CroMagnonCyborg Registered Member

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    Star Trek's transporter was for short to medium distances. Star Gate's star gate was for potentially huge distances (in Star Gate Atlantis, from one galaxy to another), with almost all transport being from one terrestrial environment to another.
     
  22. CroMagnonCyborg Registered Member

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    I think that unlikely or implausible scifi concepts, don't necessarily make for a bad story. Even impossible scifi concepts don't necessarily make for a bad story, so long as there is applied consistency.
     
  23. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    make it so, engage.
     

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