God is TRUE - Can this be the proof for God?!

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Yosef, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    5,478
    this is all interesting reading..(considering i am bad with numbers..)..

    but god is lost in it..that is Not proof..that is just mathmatical trivia..granted pretty cool coincidence..

    god may have had a hand in it..but it is not proof..
    to have proof in god would invalidate god..
    faith is the hardest thing to learn..
    with proof of god there would be no need for faith..
    if it helps you find god then call it from god...we need all the clues we can get.
    otherwise is is just trivia...
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Where does the Quran say that the moon landing happened?
     
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  5. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    um..on the moon maybe..

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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I knew somebody would post something like that.

    I meant: where in the Quran can I find the verse that says that NASA will land a man on the moon?
     
  8. Yosef Registered Senior Member

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    188
    @spidergoat

    I was concerned for a while that you personally have "discovered" this "interesting" sentence, but it looks like you have pasted it from some site.

    Regarding the twisted "verse":

    a. No one know hows many sentences they have tried before finding this one. The original BismAllah is not like any other verse. It is the verse that appears most number of times in the Holy Quran. It is the verse that starts the Quran and it is the one that we read before reading anything in the Quran. We use it also in many contexts in daily life (for example before doing something that involves risk - such as dealing with warm water).

    b. The Quran's verse calls by the merciful names of God, but the twisted one says: In the name of Allah, the Evil, the Savage. Thanks God, His words are true and He is the merciful Lord of all creation. He says that at the time He had created heavens and earth He wrote in the Book by His side that His Mercy exceeds His Anger.

    c. Some facts presented under the twisted verse are duplicates (mentioned two times).

    d. Many phenomena regarding the twisted verse are shared with BismAllah since both have 19 letters, 4 words and have same letter on word distribution.

    e. Some facts under the twisted verse are not interesting since they involve unnatural manner of representing the false sentence as under fact no. 14. The ones mentioned regarding the original BismAllah are far more interesting since they represent the letters in logical manners: ways that are sound.

    The article regarding the original BismAllah can be found here, please compare:
    http://www.quranwonders.com/2009/02/11/miracle-of-the-opening-verse

    f. there is no any phenomenon described under the twisted verse that involves representing all the 19 letters serially 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 .. 19. In totality, this sentence is false.

    g. Who wrote this sentence ?! Who has it been revealed to?! Hundreds of millions around the world believe that The Quran was revealed to Muhammed of the Family of Bni Hashim of Quraysh. Everything points to this fact. The Quran is word of God while that sentence is a saying of a coward.

    Much can be said in this context but I would propose that the miracles of the opening chapter as a whole (139 letters) are seriously irrefutable.

    http://www.quranwonders.com/2009/10/03/endless-miracle-of-the-first-chapter
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  9. Yosef Registered Senior Member

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    188
    Landing on moon in the Holy Quran

    Have a look at this page for a simple Quranic fact and answer:

    http://www.quranwonders.com/2009/02/24/landing-on-moon
     
  10. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    12,738
    Koran (9:11) --

    For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle, and the Eagle would fly on high and speak of the son of Arabia's abominable Works of Mad Desire.

    a clear reference to the
    Apollo 11 Mission

    Mission Control: 30 seconds [of fuel remaining].

    Armstrong: Forward drift?

    Aldrin: Yes. Okay. Contact light. OK, engine stop.

    Armstrong: Houston, Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has landed.

    Mission Control: Roger, Tranquility. We copy you on the ground. You got a bunch of guys about to turn blue. We're breathing again. Thanks a lot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    From your link:

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  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Captain Kremmen:

    I can't see anything about the Moon there.



    Yosef:

    I looked. It says:

    "The Hour has come closer, and the moon has split"

    There's no mention of people flying to the Moon. There's no mention of people collecting moon rocks. There's no mention of NASA or America. There's no mention of Apollo (either the god or the mission).

    The mystical numerical analysis is the same nonsense as found elsewhere in that web site. It's looking for patterns where there are none. I could find similar patterns in any book you care to name.

    At the end, we get this:

    This arbitrarily ignores the words "has come closer". Those words presumably were not counted when the mystical number was calculated. Why not?
     
  13. Kennyc Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    993
    "The Hour has come closer, and the moon has split"

    " 2. But whenever they see a miracle they turn aside and say, This is well-devised magic. 3. And they have treated the prophets as impostors, and follow their own lusts; but everything is unalterably fixed. 4. A message of prohibition had come to them - 5. Consummate wisdom - but warners profit them not."

    Well that does it for me, I'm converting...

    :shrug:
     
  14. Yosef Registered Senior Member

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    188
    I agree, this part needs more elaboration. Arabic is right to left so it is something like "Drawn closer 1390". But still, I think it's quite interesting that the only verse in the Holy Quran that talks about the moon getting split is the 1390 verse from back. 1390 years after revelation man landed on moon and dug its soil with hands.

    As I said earlier, I think the really miraculous phenomena are those described under "Endless miracle of the first chapter". The language and content of the first chapter are really great and behind those 139 letters we find all those huge and interesting numbers. Please give it a good consideration

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  15. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    1,671
    there is no proof of god there will never be any proof of god. tons of topic on this not a single 1 has a shred of tangable evidence, they should all pe named "proof of my sanity"? or my invisible friend LIVES!
     
  16. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    53,966
    @spidergoat
    Of course, I don't have time to waste on assigning random numbers to texts and then extracting interesting relationships between them. It's the kind of exercise fit for schizophrenics and idiot savants.

    No one knows if the exact texts presently considered the Quran were exactly what Mohammed wrote. In fact, the originals were lost and later reconstructed from various sources. Therefore any numbers one can get from them could have been invented by the later authors. Also, there is more than one version of the Quran.

    And Santa Claus says he travels around the world at midnight. The twisted verses contain the same invented numerical meanings as the "correct" ones.
     
  17. The Evelyonian Registered Senior Member

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    93
    Well, this entire thing is nonsense.

    Quran 9:11 reads:

    "But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communication clear for a people who know."
     
  18. Yosef Registered Senior Member

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    188
    The opening chapter of the Holy Quran

    The text is exactly the same as what have been recorded down in manuscripts 10 years, 200 years, 600 years and 1000 years after revelation. I have seen many images of them and they are available at museums, at King Fahd complex for printing of the Holy Quran and with many collectors all over the world.

    This is the revealed Arabic text:

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    It says:

    ""In the name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful; Praise be to God; the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds[sup](a)[/sup]; The Compassionate, The Merciful; Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee do we worship, and thine aid do we seek. Show us the straight way; The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, Those whose portion is not wrath, And who go not astray.""


    This is what the opening chapter says. It has 139 Arabic letters and countless mathematical wonders. What can be seen, among other things, is that representing its letters by letter-values based on the work on independent researchers from all over the world provides 6 huge numbers (138 - 316 digit numbers) that all are divisible by 19.

    All of this added to countless references to the number 46 when the Quran talks about human creation. Humans have 46 chromosomes. Different species have different number of chromosomes.

    [sup](a)[/sup] (Worlds) The word Ala'lmin العلمين means everything that has been created by God or everything that is not God Himself (Angels, people, earth, sky etc..)
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  19. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    53,966
    Any number can be connected to a wide variety of numbers found in science. It doesn't mean anything. For instance:

    "spidergoat is god"
    Assuming we assign numbers to the letters of the English alphabet sequentially...
    19+16+9+4+5+18+7+15+1+20+9+19+7+15+4=168
    1+6+8=15
    On Chromosome 15, there is a gene called EYCL3, which codes for brown eyes.
    My eyes are brown!

    Wow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  20. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    5,478
    the term twisted verses..sounds like someone rewrote it..but the context suggests something different..explain please
     
  21. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    53,966
    I believe he meant the article I quoted, where Quranic verses are twisted around to mean un-Islamic things, and their numerical values are the same. This wasn't mean to disparage the Quran, but to show that such correlations are not limited to holy texts.

    No one knows how many sentences Mohammed tried before finding the ones he settled on.
     
  22. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    20,285
    Can you tell me the day, month and year the Qur'an was finalized?

    Thanks,
    M
     
  23. Yosef Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    @spidergoat

    I agree that it is theoretically possible to find other sentences with similar mathematical features. However, I maintain that the person who came with that unfortunate sentence tried many phrases before he came with those results. The opening verse of the Holy Quran is not like anything else. It initiates, almost, all chapters of the Holy Quran and it is the first one of the first chapter. There is no whatsoever account that the prophet peace be upon him sat down with his followers and wrote things based on any mathematical systems. They had no means at those times to validate whether a 62 digit number is divisible by 19. The case is that we are talking about 12 huge numbers that all are divisible by 19.

    I appreciate the point you are making. I see what you mean but at the same time I say that the numbers derived from opening verse have some rationale and logic behind them. I looked at the phenomena described for the opening verse on one side of the screen and at the ones of the unfortunate sentence on the other side. What we really have are 10 logically derived numbers for the opening verse and 5 logically derived numbers for the unfortunate sentence (excluding repeated ones). Clearly, it was not simple for the author of the unfortunate sentence to find those 5 numbers and it requires huge amount of luck to get up to 10. It is possible but it requires huge amount of effort. As said earlier no one ever recorded that the prophet peace be upon him sat down and made any sort of calculations. Yet, for the most central verse of the Holy Quran, we find all those huge numbers that are divisible by number 19.

    For those of you who wonder, the opening verse says: "In the name of Allah, The Compassionate, The Merciful" (a revelation of Allah - Jehovah God) and the unfortunate sentence says: "In the name of Allah, the Evil, the Savage" (unknown author).

    @Michael

    The Quran was revealed over a 23 lunar years period. It started on a night in the month of Ramadan in the year 610 A.D. For more information about the History of the Holy Quran please visit:
    http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=109649

    Who wrote the Quran - interesting reading:
    http://www.missionislam.org/quran/whowrote.htm

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    "And when my servants ask thee concerning me, then will I be nigh unto them. I will answer the cry of him that crieth, when he crieth unto me: but let them hearken unto me, and believe in me, that they may proceed aright."​
    The Quran - The Heifer - 2:186 (verse in image above)​
     

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