Gnosticism

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by Darth Behemoth, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. Darth Behemoth Registered Member

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    What do you guys think of Gnosticism? It's theory of our predicament, the cause of evil, etc., I find intriguing. I prefer the Sethian and Marcion forms of Gnosticism myself. I think it is right on point by blaming our predicament on God. I also think that is morally right to hate and detest the God of the Old Testament, yet not necessarily disbelieve in him. Yes, I may go to Hell, but it is preferable to being an ass kissing slave to YHWH ( or Saklas/ Ialdabaoth). Better to burn than to be a treasonous, cringing, detestable slave and a hypocrite too, just so you can con your way into Heaven.
    Anyways, what is your opinion of Gnosticism?
     
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  3. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

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    Put the blame on ourselves, we are the problem , no one else can really screw things up more than greedy humans!
     
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  5. Saturnine Pariah Hell is other people Valued Senior Member

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    Guess it’s too late to mention that I cover this in my thread in Human Science category. “Humans: Cancer of the World”. Humans will generate their own problems…which are also problems for all the other species that we share this planet with.:shrug:
     
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  7. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

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    Other species don't create problems at all, humans are the major problem for they annihilate other species to extinction leaving fewer and fewer animals to reside on this planet with them. One day the links that bind everything together will break and that will be the extinction of humanity. Over 200 species a day are becoming extinct due to humans greed and overproducing themselves and this will continue until there's no food left and humans are gone.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...uqXBsw6aNZQIPU_V9GeI-BA&bvm=bv.44442042,d.eWU
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  8. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    This is an atheist liberalism position, which says it believes in science, but is not taught how to apply science for a higher level of self reliance. They depend on humans to tell them right from wrong.

    Another point is atheism does not believe in determinism, therefore how can you blame a god for determinism? The dual standard may be the reason applied science is weak in liberal atheism. Applied science needs a firm set of rules of science that applies to all. If you live in a random universe, which is popular in liberal science, this is not a firm foundation for applied science, since the whims of the god of chaos makes it hard to make anything reliable. You become dependent on those who can control chaos. Self reliance works better with firm cause and effect science and therefore deterministic science.

    Gnosticism is like a bridge between science and religion. Gnosticism will not define a specific god, since the science proof is lacking. But since these people are spiritual, they have witnessed internal data from the right brain to know something is there. They will try to analyze that. For example, we cannot reproduce dreams details in the lab, therefore according to science you there is no proof you had this dream since there is no repeatable proof.

    The agnostic will agree with science in terms of this rules technicality, but it will also take into account that this data is real, technicality of not. The analysis will be esoteric.
     
  9. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Some of its ideas are alright. But a lot of it is pretty stupid to me. I strongly disagree with its disdainment of the physical world, with their that it is the corrupt creation of an evil god.
    Bunch of fucking emo kids, religiously speaking. The world's not that bad.
    But then, I'm a polytheist and worshipper of ancient Greek and Celtic gods. My feelings about the world and its beauty are much more in line with that.
     
  10. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Really? A worshipper of it? This is curious. I've always found the subject pretty intriguing.

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  11. river Valued Senior Member

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    Well Gnosticism was about the belief in Humanity and Humanities potential intellect

    That Humanity can understand god through knowledge , god was not some mysterious concept , as to be un-understandable , rather to be closer to god was to understand , god

    While I disagree with physical existence is evil , and I do disagree , there is something puzzling as well about this statement
    Haven't figured why , as yet

    They also understood about the " greys " as well , as being soulless
     
  12. Great Old One Registered Member

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    Gnostic ideas are interesting. But it's an absurdity, perhaps, in the face of the apparent rational notion that skepticism about the metaphysical underpinnings of the universe is correct.

    You'd have to bail on rational thought and delve into mysticism. You might feel you discovered something important about existence but if you clamored your way back to rational thought you could never know you were correct and certainly not explain it to anybody else.

    I suppose you could make emotional appeal other people take up your same methods and observe their eyes glaze over in apparent agreement with your position as support for your beliefs but that still makes for a tough sell.
     
  13. river Valued Senior Member

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    I find nothing absurd about the gaining knowledge and promoting of the Human intellect
     
  14. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    I'd be wary about making a hard dichotomy. Western mysticism, at least, has a long history of being on the blurry line between scientific inquiry and religious devotion. Mystics of that tradition seek to experience something sublime (whether that be divine, personal, natural, or whatever) through direct experience and experimentation and (hopefully) a reasoned analysis. Many early forerunners of the Scientific Revolution in the 16th and 17th centuries were Western mystics, and arguably drew on those experiences in driving towards the same experimental/observational approach to the natural sciences.

    Neopagans are decently common on the Internet. Honestly, I'm surprised that you're surprised.
     
  15. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Gnosticism was essentially about early IT (information technology) of the human mind/brain. Before there were computers, the human brain was an advanced supercomputer capable of organic intelligence and will power. Meditation and contemplation of extended human capacities was connected to the study of the mind and brain. Eastern mystics, who can slow their heart to near stopping, essentially learn how to shift consciousness to places in the brain usually not accessible. The Gnostic essentially did their IT by going into their own organic computer to play with the coding.

    As a simple, do at home experiment, we can think of a happy time/place and recreate those feelings and memories. If we talk about the past with friends and family who were there, this imagination processes will induce the generation of the neural chemicals associated with those feelings. It allows us to tweak the brain so it can generates a neural chemical combo.

    If we take this to the next step, we can learn to induce these parts of the brain, which produce these chemicals, to remain in the open position so the chemicals trickle in a steady stream for extended time. (Why is he always happy?). Now the here and now has those feelings even in circumstances that may not seem appropriate. If we extrapolate from that, while adding internal command lines, we can activate the brain firmware, that is also associated with those chemical. Now we have the dynamics of an instinct. Not only is he always happy, even in dire circumstances, but s a driving force that makes others happy. The Saints could generate this extra via mystery IT.

    The Gnostics were not about projection of the mind into external deities or like the atheists who externally project into physical reality, but they would nevertheless use these systems to push internal buttons. A projection like, you are Gods, would mean the brain has hidden potential that needs to be activated by the mind.
     
  16. Great Old One Registered Member

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    I didn't say it was a bad idea. Just that it is at least currently beyond our language (including science as a highly refined system of language) to rationally discuss.

    Perhaps we'll have a different way of communicating at a later time...new concepts and language.

    I for one think Gnosticism makes a lot more sense than many attempts for pious and religious literal interpretation of ancient and sacred texts.

    My primary point is that if you did indeed discover something important through these methods it would be difficult to explain how anybody else should believe it other than encouraging the practices involved for their own personal discovery.
     
  17. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    I like this explanation of Gnosticism. Would you say achievement of Agape love is the major goal of Gnostic's?
     
  18. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    The Gnostics of old were doing IT of the brain, but they were not yet aware of what they were doing. The unconscious processes of the mind were being projected, allowing them to indirectly map the psyche. Projection is where you see, what is inside you, becoming manifest outside of you where you expect to see it.

    From these indirect observations, they developed empirical systems, which had explanations that are different from today, but which nevertheless could tweak the main frame parts of the brain.

    As an analogy, the psychologists of today do what the priests of old used to do. Both can achieve results. The priest would explain the IT in terms of the spirit and soul, while the psychologists would have different lingo like ego, ID and superego. Both push the same buttons, but each use a different command language. Part of the trick when dealing with Gnosticism, is learning to translate between the two systems so it is easier for other to see. The old timer stuff is very esoteric.

    Let me explain projection better, to show how you can indirectly gain useful data from it. Say you were a grouchy person, but you can't see this. Everyone else sees this about you, but you think you are fair minded and level headed. To help you achieve consciousness of this fact about you that others can see, you may begin to project.

    The projection will cause you to see other grouchy people, around you, in an almost compulsive way. By looking at them, you will start to notice nuances that also apply to you. One is learning about grouchy by observing the objects of the unconscious projection. As you go deeper into the mainframe, deeper things try to become conscious, but also may have to project to get your attention. Different orientations of psychology do the same thing with each creator projecting his aspect of the psyche into their system.
     
  19. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    This Gnostic Christian agrees with bot you and the O P. I see no conflict though because Gnostics recognize that God is within each of us so yes, any evil here is man made and God made.

    Regards
    D
     
  20. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I agree and would point out that most markers for evil are the lowest they have ever been so it seems that we are also the root of the solutions we put in place.

    Three cheers for mankind.

    Regards
    DL
     
  21. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Gnostic thinking has progressed from the old days and beliefs. First, let me say that Gnostic Gospels should never be read literally even when literal interpretations can be used.

    Ask a Gnostic Christian like me and we will tell you that the world is evolving perfection. It cannot be better than what it is today given all the conditions that led to today.

    The old notion of a flawed world was only written as it was as a way to explain evil which we now explain as a part of evolution.

    Regards
    DL
     
  22. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    For those who want a more technical look at Gnosticism, please have a look at my personal journey and how I think we should all be seeking God even if we do not believe in the miracle working genocidal son murderer of the bible. He, thank God is not real but that does not make the bible comp[lately useless as it does contain Jesus' esoteric teachings even though the churches never teach it.

    The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
    I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
    I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

    “Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

    This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.
    This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

    During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

    I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
    This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

    The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

    I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.

    I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

    I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.

    My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

    Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.

    This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

    Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and saves himself.

    Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?

    Regards
    DL
     
  23. spandrel Registered Member

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    Labels are comfy. Belonging. That's nice.
     

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