# Global Warming: The Greatest Hoax in the History of Science

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by madanthonywayne, Feb 6, 2007.

1. ### GenjiRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
5,285
madant is just like a fundamentalist or conspiracy theorist; Science is a lie and Man should make no effort to alleviate greenhouse gases. Of Course ALL the 90% of scientists that confirm global warming are wrong, but the oil baron apologists are armed with FACTS!

The simple people always have to learn the hard way.

3. ### madanthonywayneMorning in AmericaStaff Member

Messages:
12,461
Ah, yes. Tidal pools. I had thought of the example of Jupitor. But I was puzzled as to why a moon should be necesary for life to develope.

5. ### madanthonywayneMorning in AmericaStaff Member

Messages:
12,461
99% of scientists once thought that the earth was flat, and was the center of the universe. Science is not a democracy. I don't care how many experts you line up, if your conclusions do not make sence, I'm not buying it.

7. ### GenjiRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
5,285
That's your perogative, just don't impose your ignorance on the rest of us.

8. ### AbsaneRocket SurgeonValued Senior Member

Messages:
8,989
Can anyone explain how American SUVs are causing Mars to warm up, too?

9. ### madanthonywayneMorning in AmericaStaff Member

Messages:
12,461
Well, some of those SUV's are pretty big......

But seriously, the simultaneous warming of earth and mars is clear evidence that it is solar activity that drives climate change. Also reasonable when you consider that the earth's climate underwent plenty of changes before SUV's were ever invented.

10. ### jumpercable6EQUJ5 'WOW'Registered Senior Member

Messages:
305
Nah. Mar's is warming up because the frozen wooly martian mammoths are thawing out that are buried beneath the martian surface.

11. ### GenjiRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
5,285

What would that have to do with Earth's climate? You buy Exxon 'science' too? Do nothing? I remember smog choked cities in the 70's. Flammable rivers, intense pollution that we do not see today, no matter what you might think smog is, it don't compare to 1960's, 70's smog and pollution. We passed the Clean Air act and made a Tremendous difference. Environmental issues were a joke to righties then too, but today we can see the NYC skyline, Lake Erie doesn't smell like gasoline and our rivers and coasts are in better shape now than they have been in 100 years or more. How many Know Nothing Exxon Science Lovers here would have rejected the Clean Air Act because: It's not our fault, it's NATURAL, we CAN'T improve the way we use energy sources

Some of you need a time travel trip to 1972 NYC or Cleveland, or any city in the USA to see we can improve.

Last edited: Feb 15, 2007
12. ### GenjiRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
5,285
What is making the righties so scared? Developing more efficient energy sources? Reducing pollution? I understand why the oil barons fear progress but not the dittoheads that mock science, on a Science forum, because they dislike some of the people advocating action. The righties want to continue importing oil to the US. We know their President is best friends with the Saudi Royals so maybe that's where the opposition originates. If the climate changes evident to a vast majority of scientists (Rush Limbaugh and Hannity aren't scientists, yet. Bush may annoint them as such anytime though.) ISN'T due to humans pumping everything they get out of the ground into the atmosphere, by acting now on new energy sources would put us ahead, we'd know we did our part. Called R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y.

13. ### swivelSci-Fi AuthorValued Senior Member

Messages:
2,494
I agree. And your first post nailed it. The environment is so much more clean today than it was 30, 50, 100 years ago. There are more trees in the US today, than 100 years ago. You can swim today in the cesspools of my youth. We've gotten a lot more aware and made capitalism a LOT cleaner.

Here's my problem, though... the environmentalists won't admit this. They are a bunch of ignorant fanatics hell-bent on the destruction of capitalism, rather than on cleaning it up. Capitalists have now seen the light and choose to run greener companies, and promote a "green" image to the public. They are integrating the two ideas, making compromises, but the environmental movement is still as fanatical and unbudging as ever. I really want to start seeing some progress in their mind-sets.

And your second post nailed another issue. It wouldn't even matter to me if the Earth WASN'T warming up. I don't care about Global Warming. I don't care if we are involved or not. I don't pretend that the Earth's environment is static, and that we can control it if we WANTED to. Seriously, are we going to halt the next advance of the glaciers? Or divert the next large impactor? Probably not. None of this matters to me because we should be making the correct environmental decisions REGARDLESS.

Capitalism is moved by profits. Profits are more easily made by reducing costs and increasing efficiency than they are by raising prices. High prices induce competitors to come into a bloated market, while cost reduction, and high efficiency, makes it MORE DIFFICULT for competitors to get started. This is why capitalism has always been a pro-environment system. There is always an eye for waste-reduction, re-usability, material savings, etc...

40 years ago, the amount that your car polluted, and the amount of fuel it burned were not seen as costs. There was seemingly no cost in environmental damage, and the cost in running the vehicles was marginal. So market forces never took these costs into account. Now they do. So manufacturers are working on ways to run vehicles without using hydrocarbons. Flex-fuel, ethanol, electricity, hybrids, hydrogen. They have also done a ton to reduce emissions. Why? Because these are now seen as extra costs built-into the prices of the vehicles in the minds of the consumers. So they need to be reduced as much as possible.

The markets work, and they will handle this issue. The problem for politicians is that they will not get any credit for these beneficial changes unless they hurry the process with legislation and try to FORCE the changes onto the people. And the advocates always get impatient with the consumers who are lagging in their change-of-demands. They want a revolution so that they can create a fascist state in which their opinions are immediately adopted by the masses. Both sides make things worse, while claiming to make it better. They breed resentment and hate, instead of letting things take their natural course.

We should do what we can to minimize our impact on the environment, not because we can control the weather, and regardless of what the trends are right now. We should do it because we can, and because it is better than NOT doing it.

14. ### IceAgeCivilizationsBannedBanned

Messages:
6,618
Well said swivel (not that you seek my approval).

15. ### swivelSci-Fi AuthorValued Senior Member

Messages:
2,494
Thanks.

And it has nothing to do with you. I don't seek anyone's approval.

Besides, I am universally hated on this forum. All the socialists think I'm a right-wing nutjob. And all the theists think I'm a left-wing nutjob. This is also the way it works in my life outside of this forum, and I am perfectly comfortable with that. Such is the lot for an optimistic, capitalistic, pro-democracy, environment-loving, gun-hating, pro-choice, anti-abortion, non-drinking, anti-drug, atheist.

Hey, my wife and dog love me!

16. ### SyzygysAs a mother, I am telling youValued Senior Member

Messages:
12,671
OK, the dreaming has to stop right here...

I take you never ran a business.

Rising prices takes 5 mins, cutting costs might be impossible sometimes.

Hop on your timemachine, and visit the steelmills of the 19th century. report back what you saw.

Or read about Nigeria and the oilcompanies and tell me just how eco-friendly is the system there...

17. ### swivelSci-Fi AuthorValued Senior Member

Messages:
2,494
I take it you have never run a business. Raising prices is easy. Getting people to pay it is difficult.

Look at Standard Oil for an example. The price of oil kept dropping the bigger they got. If they would have raised prices, they would have made their competitors profitable, and invited competition.

Gas prices aren't going up because people are randomly jacking the price higher. Gas is getting more expensive because more of the world is demanding it. That is why gas companies are making record prices. It would be like having a Silver mine and waking up one morning to find that all the Silver was gone, and replaced with Gold. With the development of China, gas companies are finding themselves in possession of something more valuable than it was in previous years.

The price is the way the market stifles demand. Without higher prices, everyone would be demanding more oil, and the oil companies would not be able to produce it fast enough. So, the market raises the price, which lowers the demand. China is screaming for oil, and they are willing to pay for it, and you blame the oil companies?

And let's have a nice discourse about this, please don't accuse me of dreaming. No need to get hostile with strangers that we disagree with.

18. ### Kendall......................... .....Registered Senior Member

Messages:
358
I just read that Richard Branson is offering a $25 million dollar reward for anyone who can find a way to remove one billion tons a of carbon gases a year for 10 years from the earths atmosphere, like$5 million up front and \$20 million when the ten years is up. Anyone know the maximum amount of money they are willing to spend to do this?

19. ### IceAgeCivilizationsBannedBanned

Messages:
6,618
Millions of more trees would do the trick.

20. ### AbsaneRocket SurgeonValued Senior Member

Messages:
8,989
I have HEARD (but not certain) that there is evidence that Pluto is warming up.

21. ### Kendall......................... .....Registered Senior Member

Messages:
358
Would the idea be that the planets are getting closer to the sun or the sun is getting hotter? If the planet's orbit is getting closer to the sun the temperature of the planet should rise.

22. ### AbsaneRocket SurgeonValued Senior Member

Messages:
8,989
Well there is data that indicates the sun's temperature is rising due to normal solar cycles. That or we underestimated the sun's age and it's fixing to die.

23. ### GenjiRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
5,285
Who cares? We need to focus on Earth, even if the claim was true.