Global Warming, etc....what if

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by sly1, Dec 26, 2007.

  1. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

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    Considering human existance and our awareness of nature is so incredibly young and ignorant.....what if global warming is in reality a natural cycle?

    Consider that the age of the universe, the solar system, the planets.....earth itself.....we havent even experienced a second of time from the begining till now.

    I just watched "planet in peril" on CNN......the way it's presented it comes off extremely alarming, especially if you already accept that humans are the only reason for the increase in temprature on the earth. I see no harm in reducing fossil fuel and CO2 production, so maybe its for the better to be alarmed.....
     
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  3. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    What gets me is the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, we have reliable (not educated guesswork) temperature records for the last 150 years, and that's supposed to show us what global climate should be like? And those temperature records are measuring +-0.4 C, were thermometers around the world accurate to a few decimal places 150 years ago? Were higher surface temperatures due to pavement, buildings and other modern heat trapping inventions taken into account?

    It's like somebody plotted industrialization and temperature on a graph, found a correlation and suddenly the world is on the path to destruction.

    I'm all for limiting pollution, it can't hurt, but this "sky is falling" alarmism seems a bit much. Especially if it starts pushing toward a more drastic "solution", like intentionally changing the climate to offset warming.
     
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  5. Nickelodeon Banned Banned

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    Is it that simple?
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    If the recent human boost in CO2 is not changing the climate, it would be very interesting to discover why not.

    Meanwhile, no one - not one single authority or political figure anywhere - is claiming that human input is the only factor behind any climate regime or weather phenomenon whatsoever.

    And radical, sky-falling reactions are not even on the table - we just spent a couple of years in the US getting gas mileage requirements for the domestic auto fleet raised a few percentage points by some time in some future year. This in a country that allows V8 engines in passenger cars, while importing two thirds of its crude oil from politically hostile countries at great damage to its balance of trade and currency foundations.
     
  8. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    Probably not, but that's how it comes across to the public. In the background we have organizations like the IPCC releasing 1000 page reports, citing studies left and right, but very little information about how conclusions are reached gets to the public. What we need is a good documentary explaining the science behind the conclusions, not just "studies reveal" or "measurements say", but how those studies and measurements are carried out and how we can be sure they're accurate.
    Maybe not, but it's always presented as the biggest factor. Back in the dinosaur age atmospheric CO2 was some 10 times higher than it is today, and there were no humans around then to pollute the world.
     
  9. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    It is part of a natural cycle however that cycle takes over 1000 years to complete or longer! We are seeing it change drastically in just 100 years. That's just not natures way according to tree ring studies.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kknbg7xquQ


    It's nature's way of telling you something's wrong
    It's nature's way of telling you in a song

    It's nature's way of receiving you
    It's nature's way of retrieving you
    It's nature's way of telling you
    Something's wrong


    It's nature's way of telling you, soon we'll freeze
    It's nature's way of telling you, dying trees


    It's nature's way, it's nature's way
    It's nature's way, it's nature's way

    It's nature's way of telling you
    It's nature's way of telling you
    Something's wrong
    It's nature's way of telling you
    It's nature's way of telling you
    In a song, oh-h

    It's nature's way of receiving you
    It's nature's way
    It's nature's way of retrieving you
    It's nature's way
    It's nature's way of telling you
    Something's wrong, something's wrong, something's wrong
     
  10. Vega Banned Banned

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    1,392
    The damage is done there is no turning back..the planet is doomed!!!
     
  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    You are correct. Many animals as well as vegetation have become extinct in the past 100 years which will never ever return. There are also many that are on the verge of extinction as well today. By putting animals into Zoos and circuses we are destroying their whole type of species only for our enjoyment. We need to stop this stupidity and try and preserve what little is left of those species on the verge of extinction, not confine them into zoo prisons for the rest of their lives.
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That's because it appears to be the significant new factor responsible for the significant new effects observed.

    The dinosauer age CO2 was not from human fossil fuel combustion. And the dinosauer age global temps would create some pretty serious problems for us humans, were modern age fossil fuel CO2 accumulation to create them again rapidly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2007
  13. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

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    692
    Even in the grand scale of time trees are just as young. Can we look back millions of years through trees? If we can then I could see justification for saying "trees" know something is wrong.......all the evidence points to now is....."in this tree's lifetime the current weather is abnormal"

    I am all for animal protection and reduction of pollutants and pretty much anything that has or could have a drastic effect on the cycle of nature.

    To me it seems like a intrical part in human beings "learning" to get it together and start living with and adapting to nature without trying to constantly change and control everything.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2007
  14. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm only refering to trees that are 3000 years old or so. When they looked at their tree rings that is something they found.
     
  15. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

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    692
    Just out of curiosity........is there money to be made from the belief that humans caused global warming?! If so that would explain why most media sources and government officials are accepting that human global warming is the case.
     
  16. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Much, much more to be made from fossil fuel sales.
     
  17. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

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    Thats true, however that is a depleating resource so eventually there will have to be a change.
     
  18. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    In the short term, profits will go ever higher, as long as people delay finding some alternative. In the past, I have been able to link most global warming deniers to oil companies.
     
  19. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

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    692
    Makes sense, however I have noticed just from listening to responces to questions about global warming that people seem to have trouble seperating Global Warming and greenhouse effect via human beings.

    Global warming is a reality.......the connection between global warming and human beings and fossil fuel use is at best a hypothesis.

    I do agree that it appears to be every intent of corp america, ruling government, and oil companies to sqeeze ever cents worth out of their resource until it is completely consumed.

    I
     
  20. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I think the connection between human burning of fossil fuels, agriculture and deforestation with global warming is well established. The misinformation is the result of a deliberate campaign to subvert the truth, not unlike what the tobacco companies tried to do.
     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It is a hypothesis with mechanism, evidence, and data support.

    And it is the only hypothesis so far that has mechanism, evidence, and data support.

    What do you mean by "at best" ? At best it's a confirmed event. At minimum it's a likelihod with no plausible alternative yet advanced.
     
  22. Enmos Staff Member

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    43,184
    Probably..

    Edit: Happy Holidays..
     
  23. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    Was my point. It's happened before, it'll more than likely happen again. We may be accelerating it this time around, but there's no reason to assume it won't happen even if we cut back pollution.
    I've yet to see this misinformation you speak of, at least where I live. Personally I see a few red flags go up when I read global warming reports, not because it seems so dire but from the methods used in the research. Measuring CO2 concentrations in thousands years old air pockets trapped in ice, extrapolating global temperatures from before 150 years ago because no earlier recordings exist, tree ring analysis (what possible insight could a tree ring give in regards to a 0.3C global average temperature change?) and so on.

    Which is exactly why I'd love to see a global warming documentary about the science behind the science.
     

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