Gesticulating

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by cosmictraveler, Nov 3, 2014.

  1. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Gesticulating when on a football field or any field that a sport is carried out upon shouldn't be allowed. If those wanting to gesticulate could do it either before the games is played in the locker room or before the television cameras are turned on it would be much better .

    I say this because I'm noticing this type of activity more and more especially in football whenever a touchdown is scored or when a kicker kicks the ball.

    What do you think?
     
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  3. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    I think gesticulating means making gestures. So you would have athletes keep their arms rigidly at their sides except when in play? Talking with the hands, ten-yard penalty?

    Maybe you mean sign of the cross gestures? I am just guessing. I have to if you don't know the proper words for what you wish to communicate.

    If that's what you mean, what's it to you? Are you against freedom of religion? Are you for separation of church and state college football? What then of Notre dame? Why would an athletes exuberance,or dedication upon scoring a point be any sort of an issue for you unless you were a fanatic of some sort in your own right?

    I think, since you were so good as to ask, that you should go and score those touchdowns or attempt those field goals, and then you can talk.

    Have another beer and relax. (And don't forget to thank God for the beer).
     
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  5. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry , I just thought everyone knew I was talking about crossing themselves when I stated gesticulating on the football field.

    Why should anyone have to cross themselves during the game when they are on the field? They could do that when they are just coming onto the field or as I suggested when they are in the locker rooms before they play to get "blessed" so that nothing happens to them while playing. I'm not against anyone from enjoying their own religion or beliefs but do think crossing oneself during a game should be stopped because no other type of belief is doing that so why should any exceptions be made for anyone?
     
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  7. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    By the way whenever I've been to many high school games I've never seen the players gesticulate. I'm not saying to not do those crossings but do them off the field before you play, what's wrong with that?
     
  8. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    Just can't see that it's any of your business or why it concerns you. The players are doing what they themselves want to do, you are all about stopping others from doing what you object to for some unclear reason. I hesitate to ask what you thought of this (non) incident:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    This is Kansas City Chiefs player Husain Abdullah thanking Allah (apparently) after scoring a TD. Here's a news story and a video about it. Notice at 1:08 in the video they mention you. In these pieces the issue is concerns regulations about on-field celebrations and where to draw the line. The video's theme is that the NFL referees were wrong to penalize Husain Abdullah.

    Why is it all right for your avatar to bounce up and down in a happy, celebratory way for no reason, but it is wrong for football players to celebrate after scoring? Should I ask you to have your avatar bounce before you post or after, but not while I am reading your posts?
     
  9. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    There is probably nothing practical to do about it.
     
  10. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    But why does anything need to be done about worshipful celebration on the field of play? It's just that you dislike it. You haven't even explained your objections. Is it just that it irks your atheistic sensibilities? If that's all it is, like I have said, when you score one for the team you may celebrate as you see fit - or perhaps in a post-game interview tell the press of your disapproval of worshipful celebration on the field.
     
  11. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    I did not say anything needs to be done about it or that I dislike it or object. You do not know whether I have scored 1 or many & such would not be necessary in order to approve or disapprove.
     
  12. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    And here I thought by the title that the objection was to persons 'flipping the bird' at inappropriate times and places or perhaps rubbing or waving their lucky rabbit's foot. There are quite a number of emotional behaviors and superstitions that many people still adhere to. Their choice to do so in most cases and my choice not to observe or participate. I suppose it helps that most of these public spectacles hold no appeal for me.
     
  13. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    This is the reason I suggested that no more gesticulations from any religion for there's going to be Hindu, Jew, Islamic and other types of things that every religion does to celebrate. If you recall that a few years ago the players could dance, jump around, hit each others butts, and generally take up allot of time celebrating when they made a touchdown. Today that isn't happening because the football commissioner said to stop that form of demonstration. I believe the way that some players gesticulate will become problematic as the time moves forward because there's allot of ways that religions celebrate and I really do not enjoy seeing it on TV.

    What my avatar does here on this forum is sen by a few hundred people not by millions that watch TV so I am not bothering anyone with my avatar because it has no religious meaning but is only a character from a book called Alice In Wonderland. My avatar represents , to me, joy, fun and jockularity but if take it differently then that's your problem to overcome not mine. You can always copy my post and paste it on a separate page somewhere so that you don't see it any longer. But again that's for you to decide.

    I can imagine one day every religion having its gesticulation shown every time a celebration happens. It will become worse as time goes by and there MIGHT BE problems with many who view one religion as "bad" while another is "good". I'm suggesting to stop this in the beginning stages before like with all the bad celebrating that was going on it too gets out of hand.

    Once more I'm not trying to stop anyone from practicing their religion for as I stated they can practice it before they hit the field of play and at halftime and at the end when they are in the locker rooms. What's wrong in asking that to be done? Remember the past, before this gesticulation started no one was gesticulating up until the 1980's or so. If they didn't gesticulate back then what is wrong with going back to that way for no one complained about not being able to gesticulate because no one did.

    I do hope that you understand my concerns better now and see what could happen to players that hold different beliefs than the other players on the field. They could be "targeted" because of that and I'm trying to find ways to stop it before it does happen. Thank you for your reply and any further questions that you have please feel free to ask away.
     
  14. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    I apologize. I mistakenly thought I was addressing the OP, cosmictraveler.
     
  15. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Does Freedom of Speech include Freedom of Gesticulation? Or does Separation of Church and State limit gesticulation?
     
  16. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I stress that I'm not saying to stop anyone from gesticulating but only that they do it before the game or during halftime inside their locker room. I'm just trying to avoid any problems that may occur between religions on the field. I'm only thinking thay someone might see another gesticulate their religion and target that person for being that religion. I'm trying to prevent a problem before it happens is all and if I've offended anyone please take my apologies.
     
  17. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, that is a potential problem. I'm just wondering if it's even legal to try to prevent it. Our system, such as it is, tends to deal with the reaction to a provocation rather than the provocation itself. That is, I can say to you or gesture to you that my God can beat your God but our system will only react if you react by knocking my head off. Sticks and stones can break my bones and that is what we try to prevent, not the words or the gestures that can't {physically) harm us.

    Having said that, I agree that it would be a good idea for team policy to discourage "religious displays" of any kind in a context that might induce conflict among the players.
     
  18. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    Such displays are spontaneous expressions of gratitude and joy. The only one who would have them cut it out is curmudgeon armchair atheists. No one, but you, is going to think to target a scoring player for their religious expression. Professional opponents will target them for scoring against their team and oppose them on the field of play. That's how it's done. Is there not enough trouble in the world without you inventing imaginary ones?
     
  19. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Why can't high fives, slapping,laughter, frolic be the ways to celebrate as it was prior to 1980 or so. High schools don't allow it so why should the pros?

    I can imagine some Islamic players gesticulating the way they do and some other players on the other team might not like their religion, there could be trouble.

    Why wait until problems happen , why not nip this in the bud? What is wrong with any player gesticulating before they go out onto the field?
     
  20. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Maybe you didn't read the OP. It isn't "only me". I'm trying to tone down the idea expressed in the OP by not banning such displays but instead discouraging them on a voluntary basis.
     
  21. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Are they doing it in baseball, basketball or tennis yet?
     
  22. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    As everyone knows those sports are rife with godless atheists who are in it for the money, not to glorify their Lord.
     
  23. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    As opposed to which sports rife with godless theists?
     

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