# Genetic Information

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Hermann, Jun 2, 2001.

1. ### HermannRegistered Senior Member

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159
I would like to know, which kind of information can be carried by genes. It is clear to me, that all information about our body and also instincts are defined by the genes. But can genes also carry any kind of intellectual information? Is it possible that our experience is life can be written to the genes? Did we get anything from our grand parents about their experience in life via genes?

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3. ### wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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5. ### HermannRegistered Senior Member

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159
Hi Wet1,

Thanks for your fast response and for the links containing huge information. I will work through the links, but this will take some time.

My main interest is not, what genes are carrying, but what they are not carrying. Can you confirm my following two assumptions:

1) Genes do not carry any intellectual information and our experience in life will not be written to the genes.

2) The evolution according to Darwin, where one main point is selection by survival, has stopped for the human race at least 1000 years ago. Since that time positive and negative mutations could be spread equally. That means the huge progress in our biological life is mainly caused by the progress in medicine. Any further genetic progress can only be achieved by active gene manipulation, if wanted.

A would appreciate very much a short comment to this.

Regards
Hermann

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7. ### wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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I don't think that I can verify that genes don't carry any intellectual info. You raise some good questions. Could instintive info be called intellectual? or turn from behavior to intellectual?
In an insect society the behaviour is instinctive and is not needed to be learned. Is there a "key gene' that could be unlocked to give more instructions at birth?

I mentioned something to this effect of interferring with the natrual process of selection in another post. That we have partially nulified it. The weak ones that would have perished under normal cirsumstances except for the alteration of the rules.
And in altering the rules we may have allowed the race to become weaker. At trait that may accumulate over time to our regret and dismay.

With the mapping of the human geome and the advances in genetics we open the lid to Pandora's box. Only time will tell what "rewards we will reap" from such knowledge. Wether it will be better or worse for mankind.

Last edited: Jun 3, 2001
8. ### HermannRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
159
Wet1,

There may be an intellectual component in instincts. But also such genetic information has been developed by evolution over thousands or millions of years. Generally I think, genes are read-only-memories (ROMs), which cannot be used by nature for intellectual short term messages of single persons (individual experience in life) from one generation to the next like a hard disk. Can you agree with this?

9. ### wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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8,616
Data saved

Interesting that you should use the hard drive simile. Actually it's a very good one. For that is exactly was genes are. A storage of data containing the blueprint for building a whatever. Worm, ant, or human along with it's traits. (mixture of genes and dna)

In addition instructions (however limited) in initial behavior. Hardwired to the brain, instruction on how to move the body. that and crying are some of the very first things done.

A calf can stand on it's feet very shortly after birth while it takes humans nearly 2 years + or -.

10. ### HermannRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
159
Wet1,
I think we have still a misunderstanding.
In my opinion, the genes are not like a hard disks, because you cannot write on them. Genes seems to be like CD ROMs. All information on such CDs has been grown by evolution over very long time and cannot be changed during our life. Just for our children our CD will be randomly mixed with another one.
Is this your view as well?

11. ### wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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8,616
You'd be suprised how long you can keep something going with a misunderstanding.

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Yeah, I gotta agree with you.
So let play devils advocate and ask what's next.

12. ### HermannRegistered Senior Member

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159
Wet1,

I am glad that we could come to an agreement.

The reasons for my interest in that are the often discussed questions "Who are we?" and "Where are we from". Can genetic and environmental influences explain really everything? I have spend a lot of time with such thoughts and gave a summary on my website: www.users.bigpond.com/hermann.raith

A long time ago I heard an interesting argument, why a soul must exist. The argumentation was like following:

Evolution produced everything, where was a need for in life. Therefore we have ears sensible for sound, eyes just sensible for the interesting range of wavelengths, etc. By this we got also the cerebellum, the part of the brain, which is responsible for instincts and reactions useful for survival. But what is about the cerebrum, the latest part of the brain? This seems to be not a sensor for something and not needed for producing necessary reactions. The final statement was therefore, that there must be a soul, which wants to make use of the brain for its own realization.

What do you think about such an argumentation or can you see another reason, why evolution has produced the cerebrum?

Last edited: Sep 17, 2005
13. ### PorfiryNomadStaff Member

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4,127
Intelligence seems to have been a darn good functional enhancement to improve survival odds, as evidenced by the exponential growth rate in the human population.

14. ### wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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8,616
I gotta agree with that one. We're the top of the food chain. Course other predators don't quite see it our way as oppuritunity is oppuritunity.

15. ### HOWARDSTERNHOWARDSTERN has logged out....Registered Senior Member

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Instinct & Intelligence.....same/same.

In genetics all things are possible. There is NO difference between instinct & intelligence.

The past instincts that have been acquired by the varieties of organisms were acquired by natural selection. Hardwired.

The same could easily be done with human beings if people were designed by genetic engineers rather than ideas of amorous sexual appetites.

I see no practical limit to the possibilies of pre-designing human minds to be fully developed and genious-like upon birth. further, I believe that there is no limit as to the many types (species) of human beings that might well be developed in future centuries in regard to the ability of humans to cope with the varieties of environmental conditions on other worlds.

Because people aren't born smart simply is because people haven't been designed to be.

The revolution of Evolution is coming....................

16. ### HermannRegistered Senior Member

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159
Howardstern,

Do you believe, that clones of Einstein would show similar performance?

17. ### HOWARDSTERNHOWARDSTERN has logged out....Registered Senior Member

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SEND IN THE CLONES ! ! !

<b> Only if they (clones) were exposed to very similiar conditions that Einstein (the original) was exposed from his childhood up to the time of his findings.</b>

If Albert Einstein were to have been raised in a ghetto New York Scene by Crack Addict parents, then it is way possible that Albert would have been not much different than a lot of young black men who are in the penitentiary system today.

Certainly Albert was exceptional. But I believe that in a lot of ways Albert may have actually been somewhat retarded. I would be more interested in looking at the type of psychological environment that Albert Einstein grew up in.

<b>DON'T GET ME WRONG PEOPLE!</B>

From what I have read of Albert Einstein, his particular genious had to do with his ability to block out the rest of the world and the extraneous everyday types of tasks that most people take for granted. Albert had the ability to "focus" inward on a very few ideas and work at them constantly & without boredom. During these times however, the man would almost completely forget about the rest of the world around him.

<b>ALBERT THE MENTAL MUTANT</B>

All the people that you hear about today who have amazing capabilities to mentally handle large numbers, or others who have the ability to visually remember everything that they see, while there are those who can hear a song for the first time and then play and sing the song back nearly perfectly.......are all examples of genetic mutations for the most part. This is <u>NOT</u> to say that you can't do some of the very same kinds of things my friend. In fact, I believe that the average person could quite possibly do as much & even more than an "Einstein", if that person were to acheive such a previously mentioned capability of <u>Focus</u>.

<b>CURIOSITY IS THE MOST POWERFUL TEACHER</B>

I could seldom easily learn anything that I was not interested and curious about to begin with. That's nature and instinct. If the mamalian mind cannot emotionally find a reason to learn something new, then the learning process and eventual mastery of the learned subject will never be great. A Siberian Tiger may learn Einstein Relativity equations if he (Tiger) can emotionally associate relativity to his strongest instincts of eating his next meal or breeding with a female Tiger.

Emotions are quite possibly the most powerful guiding aspects of not only the human mamalian brain, but all brains of all living organisms. The emotions are the root of all thought and the most primal. Every moment of every day, people are almost entirely controlled in their decison making by their emotions. That "gut" feeling, which has always been talked about, will come into play when even the most logical of us have simply run out of facts to guide us. At this point, most people will then make a critical decision based on <u>how they feel</u> rather than the futher collection of facts. These feelings usually come from what one hears from his friends, associates, siblings, childhood experiences, ect..

<B>EMOTIONS TEND TO CONTROL OUR ACTIONS</b>

Being swayed by one's emotional preconceptions can be a total pain in the ass. This shall (I am sure) become more and more obvious to all readers of this post in the weeks, months, and years to come. The next time you see a commercial on television for instance, you will begin to take notice of all the the very minute and delicate visual aspects that the advertisers use in characters (actors), specific words, colors (color usage), background, ect... .....all to make you want to go out and buy a hamburger or perhaps a particular brand of toliet paper.

The use of Cartoons & various types of animation in television commercials will become more and more irritating as you begin to wonder why in the hell are these people (advertisers) trying to make me, a grown human being, believe that some cute little fuzzy cartoon character is gonna make me want to go out and buy any particular product! The effect that this has on kids is even more intense! Where it is written, and who decided that it was mentally safe for children to watch cartoons? Bear in mind that prior to the advent of movies & television ((even old Disney stuff (Riverboat Willy) Mickey Mouse)), that the majority of the human race was hardly ever exposed to the designs-of-thought which are now commonly broadcast to young and old alike.

Presently I find myself aggravated to no end by that cartoon ((geiko) geko) lizard on the insurance television commercials. I admit that I am not completely immune to the emotional ploys of every Con-artist out there but I can safely say that I am not going to laugh and clap & then call up Mr. Geiko lizard to pay these bastards all the extra dollars for insurance simply because they had a "CUTE" commercial. I guess I am just weird that way!

But by the same token, Ronald Mc Donald never caused me to run out an buy a "Mc Happy Meal", ect...... since I am a hell of a cook & can fry a hamburger that would bring tears to Ronald's eyes anyway!

WHERE WAS I??????

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The human mind has so many things that affect it in ways that even the pros are unaware of. From the day your born, you begin to take in the sites, sounds, emotional actions & reactions of others. All these things cause a developing mind to cope and adjust to it's environment, usually in a way which it's guiding instinct finds to be beneficial to it's survival. However survival for human beings is nothing like what it was in centuries & millenia past. Today especially, most people in the developed countries know that they get a meal from the Salvation Army at least. Or that the government will make it possible for them to live and thereby avoid starving. In other words, the competition for survival is not anything like what it was in millenia past. However, I believe that Darwin Evolution still holds perfectly true today for 21st century human beings as it did for humans of 30,000 years ago! The environment of our current generations has changed, but people really haven't. At least not much!

At the other end of the Human spectrum, there are the over-acheivers. Bill Gates, the Richest geek on Planet Earth! All the other over-acheivers..........what of them?????

Evolution!!!!!!!!..........For now, humanity is King! Considering all previously known forms of life, humanity has the ability to provide survival for all sorts of mutant human life forms. People with three eyes and four legs.........no problem. People who are (literally) less intelligent than a Chimpanzee...they can live and breed to make more just like them! A person who has a terminal type of cancer which would cause him (her) to die before (s)he reached puberty (breeding age) can now have they life extended so that they may pass on their terminal genetic traits to the rest of the population. And to their children, who may continue to pass on these normally unacceptable traits..... will be allowed to continue to pass on these traits to the rest of the breeding population and succeeding generations because of the intervention of medical science.

<b>EVOLUTION NEVER TOOK COMPASSION INTO ACCOUNT</B>

Survival of the fittest. That which can survive, by what ever means, and procreate will pass on it's genes of survival to the future generations. Humanity however, has pretty much broken all the rules of mother nature.

<b>BUT COMPASSION MADE ALBERT EINSTEIN!!!!!!!!!</B>

Much of what I have previously written almost paints me as a NAZI!!! I assure all that I am not. I simply believe that it is necessary for the student of Evolution to have a larger, "GOD'S EYE" point of view, so that (s)he may begin to look at the big picture in regard to Evolution and the bio-development of all living species.

In primal evolution terms, Albert Einstein quite probably would not have been able to hunt and run with the rest of a family tribe of 30,000 years past. He might well have been "Too Slow" to learn from his father, the best way to throw a spear, or how to escape a 600 pound Tiger...... Albert's dad would be running up a tree and screaming for him to do the same, but "Albert the intellectual" would probably be too engrossed in the idea of the speed of the tiger and the possible space/time connection thereof. Now for any possible Albert watching a Tiger video on the National Geographic Channel today that might be great, but thirty thousand years ago it meant that the Siberian Tiger would have made a quick Albert snack!

The fact is that Albert Einstein (of the 20th century) grew up in a time when survival conditions permitted people such as him to live and flourish. In all liklihood there have been many such Alberts who were not able to survive and pass on their genes to future generations because of the past harsh environmental conditions of pre-industrial times. And today especially, there are doubtlessly many such "Alberts", who are supported by the civilized society of humanity. They or their offspring may well see ways to advance science in ways that make the most renowed scientists today look like complete morons. Time will tell.

<b>Clones of Albert Einstein? Why waste the time. </b>

-Develop a test to pick out those people who are highly imaginative and have the abilty to focus their mental concentration powers greatly;

- Apply the best teaching methods known toward the advancement of the intellects of these people, and

- begin a breeding program among all these genius humans which are found. After a hundred years or so of refinement, it may then become worthwhile to attempt a limited Cloning program, though I don't really see much of an advantage in recreating a past "genious" when one comes to realize that advanced mental powers lie in the future combinations of human offspring, rather than in our past, primal ancestory.

As the understanding of genetics continue, I expect that eventually it will become possible to "hardwire" knowledge into the genetic codes of a human being, or any other form of life, for that matter! That at birth, a human being might well have the entire knowledge of the human race literally programmed into his (her) genes. One of the main reasons that I say this has to do with the very fact of the much more primal "instincts" that have been programmed into all living organisms, including humans. I believe that it would actually easier to genetically program knowledge into a human being than it would be to try to fit electronic hardware into a human beings head. Certainly Biotechnology is going to be much more compatible to a human brain than any kind of electronic hardware/software. In fact, if I were planning on investing in any such types of stocks, I'd be seriously considering the genetic technology stocks in the near future. Sooner or later I expect that biotechnology may well replace the semi conductors that power all of our computers today. Of course that depends on how Artificial Intelligence itself evolves in the years to come.

Last edited: Jun 26, 2001
18. ### Chagur.Seeker.Registered Senior Member

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2,235
Agree with almost everything you said Howardstern except the above.

Genius cannot be 'taught'. If anything, it can only be discouraged by not understanding how very different the thought processes of genius are, whether the ability to compose a sonata at six, or write a poem at four, or conceive of a multi-dimensional universe at seven.

A good number of years back a husband and wife team at a local university decided to study creativity. At the end of the study they contacted the local Mensa group to see if they would participate. They did, and in many cases blew the scale that was being used so badly that the graduate students who were participating in the study were unable to score, let alone plot, the individual's 'creativity'.

I'd have to say the only way to encourage such an individual is to give them the time and the resources to explore wherever it is that they want to go ... and then stand back.

19. ### HermannRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
159
Howardstern, your detailed explanations are extremely interesting, but the comments of Chagur are valid, too.

I think we have to look for latent geniuses - even in a ghetto New York Scene - in order to teach them the necessary basic knowledge and to give them resources and time to develop or to realize their inner power. I don't think we can breed geniuses, but we can wake them up.

I understand your materialistic world-view, which is not free of preconceptions, and I regard it as a believable belief - but is this the only one? Would you be able just to imagine the possibility, that individual souls could exist? What about an alternative world-view as I have described on my website ?
Would you tolerate this also as a "believable belief"?

20. ### Time/02112Senior MemberRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
298
<img src="http://www.webpromotion.com/anim/stock01/white/01_21_w.gif" border="0" alt="">
...ever heard of "White Powder Gold" and its efects on the human genome system to create additional degrees of seperation between the body & spiritul limitation whithout physical death, enabling the us humans to evolve to another form of God-Like abilities? In theory not only could you download information directly into the brain instantaneously, but you could shift the harmonic resonance & frequencies within every living cell in your body, to shift between physical form, and a translucent energy body!

I'll provide additional details...

Superconductivity and Modern Alchemy
Has the Philosopher's Stone Been Found?

**********-White Powder Gold-******************
http://monatomic.earth.com/david-hudson/1995-02-dallas-d-white-powder-gold.html

21. ### HOWARDSTERNHOWARDSTERN has logged out....Registered Senior Member

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364
HMMMM??????? I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK.. (GARFIELD THE CAT (ON ACID))!!!

<HTML>
<TITLE>
Superconductivity and Modern Alchemy:
Has the Philosopher's Stone Been Found?
by David Hudson
[White Powder Gold]
</TITLE>
<BODY>

<H1>Superconductivity and Modern Alchemy</H1>
<H2>Has the Philosopher's Stone Been Found?</H2>
<H3>White Powder Gold</H3>

<P>
[
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-toc.html">Table-of-Contents</A>
·
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-a-discovery.html">Discovery</A>
·
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-d-white-powder-gold.html">White Powder Gold</A>
·
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-e-qa.html">Q&amp;A</A>
·
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-f-workshop-1.html">Workshop-1</A>
·
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-g-workshop-2.html">Workshop-2</A>
]

<BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
Transcript of a February 1995 introductory lecture and workshop by
David Hudson in Dallas Texas. Transcribed from the video tapes
which were recorded by The Eclectic Viewpoint on February 10 and
11, 1995. The video tapes are available from:

<P>
The Eclectic Viewpoint<BR>
P.O. Box 802735<BR>
Dallas, Texas 75380<BR>
Contact hot line (214) 601-7687<BR>

<P>
The video tapes have readable pictures of all of the documents that
Hudson references. The serious student of these subjects will find
these tapes are worth obtaining. The package of three video tapes
costs $69.95 plus$5.00 for shipping and handling.

<P>
Items in [parentheses] were added by the editor of this transcript.
</BLOCKQUOTE>

<P>
<B>Note: This has been further edited and broken into smaller
pieces for HTML at monatomic.earth.com. The editorial notes mentioned
above were added by the previous editor.</B>

<HR>
<H3>White Powder Gold</H3>

<P>
[52:17] Okay before I start on the second half, I would like to
request of all of you, um, Cheyenne was very adamant that she had
to tape these proceedings. She said I've always done that with my
speakers. I have been very disappointed in that when I spoke at
Global Sciences twice, they taped it both times, and I said, "This
tape is only for the people who attend the conference". And these
people have copied and copied and copied. I have had phone calls
from Germany, I had phone calls from South America. I will please
ask you people, please do not recopy these tapes. These tapes are
for the people that attended the conference, who want to refer back
to them. It's fine to play them for other people, but please don't
make copies of them for other people to have. Some of the people
who have ended up with copies of these are not the kind of people
that I would just as soon that they didn't hear about this. And
it's because I refuse. I've been asked to speak at NASA and I've
turned it down, on superconductivity. I've been asked to come before
the open radio stations, and what you have to understand is that
all people are not ready for this.

<P>
Okay? The people who came here basically, I'd say, 90-95 percent
of you hear this and understand what it is and why it's here now.
But most people on the street do not understand it at all. And I
can tell you it's just like you're speaking a foreign language when
you try to repeat this to people. They're just going to say, "Gosh,
what are they talking about. You're out in left field." And, ah,
all I can tell you is it seems to be a built in protection. It
seems to be for a reason, that's all I can tell you. And so, please
don't recopy the tapes, okay? I'm asking you here on tape, please
don't recopy the tapes.

<P>
Okay, back to the alchemical substance. When I became interested
in this alchemy, because the white powder of gold was the alchemical
substance supposedly, I began to do all sorts of reading, and one
of the things I came across immediately was the Melchizedek priesthood
and the white powder of gold associated with the Melchizedek
priesthood. So I went to Rabbi Plotkin at Temple Beth Israel in
Phoenix, and I asked the Rabbi, who is one of the most knowledgeable
rabbis in Arizona, I said, "Rabbi, have you ever of the white powder
of gold?", and he said, "Oh yes Mr. Hudson, but to our knowledge
no one's known how to make it since the destruction of the first
temple". He said, "The white powder of gold is the magic. It can
be used for white magic or black magic".

<P>
And when you really find out what the white powder of gold is, you
begin to really appreciate that statement. So, anyway, as I began
to research this further, I found out about the history of it, I
found out that it has been associated with the ancient peoples over
in the Tigris-Euphrates valley. It was knowledge that was given to
them by, they claimed, the gods. It is always depicted in the
literature as a triangular shaped stone, but it's about twice as
tall as it is wide, kind of an elongated pyramidal shape, like
this. I think Zecharia Sitchin refers to it as the "athinder?
stone". Ah, but all of their sacred text always began with it.
Curious enough, in the ancient Egyptian text it was always referred
to as the "What is it?", and if you read in the papyrus of Ani that
was found in the tomb of Pepe the 2nd in old kingdom Egypt, it
says, "I am purified of all imperfections, what is it, I ascend
like the golden hawk of Horus, what is it, I come by the immortals
without dying, what is it, I come before my father's throne, what
is it, and she goes on and on, page after page, talking about all
these attributes that you acquire as you ascend, but they always
stop and ask the question, "What is it"?

<P>
Well, this was written about 28-29 hundred B.C., and they're asking
this question "What is it"? Well when I found the Hebrew dictionary,
I found out that the Hebrew word for "What is it?" is Ma-Na. Manna
literally means the same thing, "What is it?" And when you understand
that the Hebrew people were actually, lived in Egypt for generations,
they were the artisans, they were the metallurgists, they were the
craftsman. And when they left out of Egypt they took this knowledge
with them. We find in the literature that, and this is particularly
in Velikovsky's writing, 'Ages in Chaos', that he says, that, eh,
when the Egyptian..., when the Hebrew people left Egypt that the
Egyptians decided that they wanted to go after them and they find
the writings in Egypt where the Pharaoh and his army drown in a
whirlpool of water. Now this right at the end of old kingdom Egypt.

<P>
Remember in the Bible, that it says that the Hebrews encountered
these mean, warring like peoples called the Amalekites out on the
Sinai peninsula as they were exiting Egypt, and they, Moses wanted
to fight them, and the Hebrew people said "naw, these guys are
fierce tribesmen, there's hundreds of thousands of them, we don't
want to fight these people". And so they avoided fighting them.
Well, Velikovsky found out that at the very same time they were
having all the plagues in Egypt they were also having plagues over
in the Tigris-Euphrates valley, and the ruling tribe, the Amalekites,
exited the Tigris-Euphrates valley at the same time the Hebrews
were exiting Egypt. And they literally passed each other on the
Sinai with the Amalekites coming west as the Hebrews were going
east. They arrived in Egypt and there was no Pharaoh and there was
no army, and literally, these Arabs, destroyed and killed everyone.
All they left were the lesser people, who they kept as slaves for
themselves, but they hacked and killed and slaughtered everyone.
They destroyed the temples, they wiped out a very high culture at
the end of old kingdom Egypt. By the time they woke up to the fact
of what they had destroyed, the knowledge that was gone, it was
too late. The only people that knew how to make it, who were still
alive, were the Hebrews, and they were out on the Sinai.

<P>
They began in ancient Egypt to do the opening of the mouth ceremonies,
they begin to mummify their leaders, waiting for this knowledge to
come back so that the leaders could be brought back to life, but
in fact the knowledge was gone. And so, if you look in old kingdom
Egypt, did you know that they've never found the body of a pharaoh
or a high priest from old kingdom Egypt? Never. And they claim in
their literature that they never died, that they ascended the
stairway to heaven. And when you read about what they did and where
they went, it totally agrees, they were going to the very same
place that the people in the Tigris-Euphrates valley went to, to
ascend the stairway to heaven. And that was to an island called
Bahrain, it's just off the Sinai peninsula. There was a city by
the name of 'Kilmun' or 'Dilmun' and do you know that they have
excavated the city and found that it does exist, and it's supposedly
the land of the crossing, where the fresh water and the sea water
mix. And they have found the fault, right underneath the island
where fresh water exits under the ocean and mixes with the sea
water.

<P>
All of this goes back to writings about the first mortal king in
the Tigris-Euphrates valley, Gilgamesh, and his quest for immortality.
It goes back to he was told to travel to the land where the sun
sets, or the sun rises, which in fact was the name for Arabia.
And he traveled down the Tigris-Euphrates river, and into the ocean
and across the ocean, they came to this island, and it was at that
island where the man who survived the flood lived, and that's the
man we know as Noah, that he was looking for. The man who lived
900-1,000 years, and has three sons who lived over 900 years, who

<P>
Okay, now we come back to the Hebrews who exited Egypt. All of the
Egyptians that had this knowledge were slaughtered, and no one was
there to bring them back to life. But the Hebrews had this knowledge,
and Bezaleel, the goldsmith, was commanded by Moses to prepare the
"What is it?", the manna, or the "bread of the presence of God",
which was another name, they knew it in old kingdom Egypt. In old
kingdom Egypt they had three other names for it, it was called "the
golden tear from the eye of Horus", it was called "that which issues
from the mouth of the Creator", the spittle, or it was called "the
semen of the Father in Heaven". And if you take the white powder
gold and you mix it with water, it forms a gelatinous white
suspension, that, as a farmer I can attest, it does look just like
semen, which we use to, for the cattle and all. Ah, that would be
a good description of it, if I was trying to convey to someone what
it looks like.

<P>
Basically this is the basis of all religions of the world. How many
times have you heard "cleanse yourself", "purify yourself", "prepare
yourself like a bride in the bridal chamber", "for the coming of
the father". What they don't go on and tell you is what happens in
the bridal chamber, you become inseminated in the bridal chamber.
But you receive the semen of the father in Heaven. And you. . .
over. . . this is done over a 40 day period during a 40 day fast.
It was called the Egyptian rite of passage. It went 9 days with no
food to totally cleanse the digestive system, and they took this
material, or the "semen of the Father in Heaven", for the next 30
days. Okay, it was called "the Bread of Life" and the "Bread of
Life" was mixed with the water and was called the "Living Water".
Okay? This material is what Moses commanded Bezaleel, the goldsmith.
It wasn't a baker, it wasn't a woman, it was a goldsmith who was
told to prepare the "Bread of the presence of God", and this "Bread
of the presence of God" was set out on a golden table in front of
the Ark of the covenant. You remember the ark of the covenant, they
also placed the stones, through which God spoke to Moses, and gave
him the ten commandments.

<P>
And the Bible says, up on Mt. Sinai, that the Hebrew people said
there was fire and there was smoke. It was if a forge was going up
on Mt. Sinai. But when you recall that Moses had been there previously
and in the area of Sinai is where copper was being mined and smelted.
And in fact, I believe there was a forge going on Mt. Sinai, because
at 1,160 degrees the white powder of gold can be melted to a
transparent glass of gold. It literally becomes a glass as clear
as window glass, and yet it is pure gold, it's not a gold compound,
it's pure gold. You can take it in a mortar and pestle and grind
it right back to the white powder, but it is, it looks absolutely
like glass.

<P>
The neat thing about gold, as compared to the other elements, is
that gold can be purified by distillation. At 450 degrees elemental
gold will resonance disconnect from itself and will go over as a
gas and be re-condensed over here and be caught as white powder
again. And so you can purify it, back and forth, by repeated
distillation, and get a very high purity substance. It's called
the "white dew", the "white condensate", "the white dove" or it's
depicted as a white feather in the alchemical texts. Because that's
the way it was purified as a volatile material. Okay? All of the
symbols of being fed by a dove, or receiving the white dove, is
always an alchemical symbol. When we find, as the rabbi told me,
that this knowledge was kept by the Hebrews until the destruction
of the first temple.

<P>
What happened when they destroyed the first temple? And what happened
right before the temple was destroyed? We find that Solomon got a
woman pregnant who came from Egypt and she, in fact, was the Pharaoh
of Egypt. What was her name, Hatshepsut? How do you pronounce it?
Hatshepsut? Anyway, it was in fact the Pharaoh of Egypt that came
to Solomon's temple, and she became pregnant, she returned back to
Egypt, and she gave birth to a son, and the son's name was Menelik.
Menelik returned to Jerusalem when he was twenty one to be acknowledged
by Solomon as being his son. And Solomon, of course, acknowledged
Menelik, "Yes, you are my son". And of course, the Levites, the
high priests, just went bonkers. Here was a half breed. And they
had all this racial purity, and here was a half breed as the eldest
son of Solomon, to be the next king of Jerusalem. And so the Levites
said, "You must send your son away, he must be sent away". And
Solomon, in his infinite wisdom, said, "Fine, if I must send my
son away, all of you Levites must send your eldest sons away also".
So all of the eldest sons of the Levites left with Menelik, but
when they left they took the Ark of the Covenant.

<P>
And that's where the Ark of the Covenant went; to Egypt. When the
Hebrews realized that the Ark of the Covenant had left, these men
who took it were the ones who by blood right were the correct ones
to care for it. They were the eldest sons of the Levites and the
king. But because they were sent away they took the Ark of the
Covenant. And the Hebrew people haven't really wanted to talk about
this that much, because it really was their doings that they lost
it. And so, the Aaronic priesthood or the rabbinical priesthood
does not want to talk about the high priesthood leaving Jerusalem,
but it went to Egypt. And it was kept in Egypt out on the island
of Elephantine, where they built an exact duplicate of the Temple
of Solomon, and you'll read, and find out about that, if you read
Graham Hancock's book, 'The Sign and the Seal'. This is all in
there and it is absolutely correct. They have excavated. The
excavators have found, on the island of Elephantine, the exact
dimensions of the Temple of Solomon, where the foundation was and
where the Ark of the Covenant was kept. In the temple of Luxor they
recorded all of the loot and all of the plunder that was taken from
the Temple of Solomon by Thutmose II, was then returned when he
became pharaoh and looted the temple. But there's no Ark of the
Covenant because they already had that. And in that plunder they
list all of the items that they got, and they're all identified as
being golden, and then silver and then copper. But under the golden
items, under the shewbread, here is this elongated pyramidal shape
that is "The Bread of the presence of God". It's the very same
symbol, that I told you earlier, that is always shown as depicted
in the sacred ceremony, with the king offering the "bread", the
"white bread", to the symbol of the Ark of the Covenant, with the
black Anubis sitting on top of it. Well the Anubis represented the
digestive system, and here's the king offering, and it says "keeper
of the secret", but it's the white powder of gold being offered to
the digestive system, which is the transformational process you go
through.

<P>
Now, what does it do? I'm not a doctor so I can't practice medicine.
Anything that is administered to someone for the purpose of curing
a disease is medicine. So therefore I can't tell you on tape what's
been done with it, what the doctors who have giving it have done
with it, but I can tell you that at 2 mg. it totally has gotten
rid of Karposi Sarcomas on AIDS patients, at 2 mg. per day. 2 mg.
per day. There's 32,000 milligrams in an ounce, 2 mg. is nothing.
And it gets rid of "KS". I can tell you that people who have taken
it, at 2 mg. injections, within 2 hours, their white blood cell
count goes from 2,500 to 6,500 white blood cells. I can tell you
that stage 4 cancer patients have taken it orally, and after 45
days have no cancer anyplace in the body. We're not gonna go into
any more specifics than that. I will talk to you about it later
when the cameras aren't running.

<P>
I am not a doctor. My purpose in this was not to cure diseases and
illness, but I did want to know "does it work"? It's been used on
Lou Gehrig's disease, it's been used on MS, it's been used on MD,
it's been used on arthritis, it's been used on, ah, what else,
that's all that's coming to mind right now, and it just does some
very remarkable things in the body. The most important thing that
it does and the real reason this is here is not as a medicine.

<P>
The reason this material is here is to enlighten and raise the
consciousness of mankind. Now if people don't understand that, I
apologize, but that really is it's purpose. And what we have done
is we have given it in the high amounts to some people who have
had nothing wrong with them medically. We didn't know what to
expect. So the very first man, he did a 42 day food fast, which is
pretty severe food fast. He went for 9 days with only water, he
had a high colonic, and on the 10th day we began to give him 500
mg a day of this material. Now this was not gold. This was rhodium
and iridium. And the reason we chose rhodium and iridium is because
it naturally was in his body. It's in Aloe Vera gel. It's in Ace
Mannan. It's in "Man aloe". It's in carrot juice, it's in grape
juice, it's in grape seed extract, it's in slippery elm bark, it's
in sheep sorrel, it's in many, many materials. And so it's totally
natural, it's not a compound, it's not a drug. It's an elemental
material. It's like taking an iron pill. But these are the atoms
that flow the light of life in your body.

<P>
And according to ancient Egyptians, they said, "You have a physical
body, you have to feed physical foods to so it can grow and become
all that it's meant to be. If you don't feed your material body,
you die or you're very stunted. You don't grow and develop." You
also have a light body, they said, you also must feed so it can
grow and become what it's meant to be. And we haven't been feeding
our light body, because we haven't known what to feed it with.

<P>
500 mg. a day for 30 days, was called the Egyptian rite of passage,
and so we had to find out what does this do. After 5 or 6 days of
taking this material, this fellow began to hear this very high
frequency sound, and every day the sound gets louder, and louder,
and louder, and louder, and louder and louder. By the time he
finished his fast, he said it's like loudspeakers in my brain,
literally roaring this sound. It's the same sound that many of the
meditators have heard, that your told to listen for when you
meditate, to find this sound, but when you think about it most
people don't hear it anymore. Well this sound is roaring in this
man's head, it's roaring day and night, it's roaring when he's
talking on the phone, it's roaring when he's working. And I said,
"Doesn't this disturb you? Isn't this an irritating sound? " and
he said, "Not at all. It's just like nectar", because it doesn't
come through the ears. He said, "It's inside the brain."

<P>
Now it's hard for me to understand. It's hard for probably most of
you to understand. He says, "David, it's just nectar. It's something
that you literally want to go within the sound and just let it
exclude everything out of your life". Basically at the end of the
42 day fast, he went back, he took a body brush to get rid of the
toxins in his body, and he went back eating normally. And he was
eating meat, white meat and vegetables. Well he figured the sound
would die down and go away. It doesn't. The sound is still growing
and getting louder and louder. After 60 more days, the dreams begin,
the revelations begin, and then the visions begin. And this is
going to sound a little far fetched to some of you, but there are
light beings that come to this man and teach him. They never open
their mouth but they telepathically are communicating with him.
And with the hope that I'm not going to offend anyone, there actually
is a female being that comes to him and has sex with him.

<P>
And I didn't understand this until I found in the ancient Vedic
texts that it talks about this, having sex with the angels. 2000
B.C. After about 7 months, he begins to have orgasms. And this is
an adult group basically so I better explain to you, he has no
erection, he has no seminal emission, but it's an orgasm. I says,
"Is it nice?" and he said, "It's just like the real thing". He's
now having about 7-8 a day.

<P>
He said, "Dave, the sound seems to originate about 8 inches above
my head, it comes down into my brain, it's like a hat band around
my head, and it just roars here in my head. I can feel the vibration
all through my body". But after 7 months these orgasms started and
they just got more frequent and more frequent, and it's not something
he controls. It's something that just comes on. Well, he only sleeps
about an hour and a half to two hours now, he doesn't need 7-8
hours like most of us, and so he decided one morning about 4 o'clock
in the morning, he's gonna go outside and just let this orgasm go.
See what happens. He said it began down the pelvis, and it literally,
he just let it move, and he said he could feel it, it came up over
his stomach, up over his chest, up over his head, and he said, "My
whole body was involved in this orgasm". And he said, "I felt hot.
I felt like if someone came up and touched me they would burn their
hand. The all of a sudden, out of the top of my head, goes this
column of energy". He feels it just going right out the top of his

<P>
Ah, I was, about three weeks ago, I was handed a book, called
"Secrets of the Golden Flower" by Richard Wilhelm with an introduction
by Carl Jung. Richard Wilhelm did the eastern translations for
Jung. This book was written in 1931, and it's been translated and
been reproduced, and published several times since then, I guess
it's now in paperback because some people are getting paperback
copies now. Anyway, it verbatim describes this sound. And it says
in the book it seems to all be about this sound, the "hu". Well we
are the hu-man. The man who can hear the sound.

<P>
Okay? This is about the "hu", the sound. And that it says in there
that you get this energy in your pelvis, and that it can be developed
where it literally will take your whole body up over your head and
everything. And when it finally is at a state of perfection that
it will feel like there is a column of light coming right out the

<P>
I think the word that most people use for it is the kundalini.
But that's what it is. This man can cut cards now, and hold them
up, and tell you what the suit is and what the number is, and he's
right 10 out of 10 times. He can tell you who's going to come to
see him tomorrow, he knows what they're going to want to talk about
before they get there, who it's going to be, what they are going
to want to talk about. He says there's this complete feeling of
oneness with all living things, all animals, all humans. It's just
this total unity of oneness with all life.

<P>
According to the "Secrets of the Golden Flower", it takes 10 lunar
months, which happens to be the same as the Egyptian's said, 9
solar months, same time frame, but at the end of this, at the ninth
month, he literally becomes a light being. It's the breaking through
of the cosmic egg, and he literally becomes a light being, capable
of levitating and capable of bio-locating. To literally disappear
here and reappear someplace else.

<P>
Now this sounds pretty preposterous, except if he's a perfect
superconductor, he can levitate, he can walk on water. And tomorrow
I will share with you some of the papers by Harold Puthoff, down
in Austin, Texas, who worked on the government contracts on psychic,
telepathy, mental connections between people, and he's now working
with levitation, time travel and all that. He's published some
papers developing Sakharov's theory about gravity, in which he
says, that gravity is not a gravitational field.

<P>
That gravity, is in fact, the inter-reaction of matter, the protons,
and the neutrons and the electrons, with the zero point, or vacuum
energy.

<P>
And what we experience as gravity is, in fact, the inter-reaction
of the matter with the zero point energy.

<P>
That there is no gravitational field per se. And in his calculations
and in his mathematics, he calculates that when matter is resonance
connected in two dimensions, it no longer interacts in three
dimensions, but it's only interacting in two dimension s, by what
he calls the jitterbug motion, that it loses 4/9s of it's gravitational
weight. Or it only weighs 56 percent, which if you all recall is
exactly what our material weighed. 56 percent, or 5/9s of it's true
weight. Which means that the material is a resonance connected,
quantum oscillator, resonating in two dimensions, which just happens
to be the definition of superconductor.

<P>
But when I met Hal Puthoff, he said, "Dave, you know what this
means, it means, when you can control space-time, if you control
gravity, and you control gravity, you are controlling space-time.
And so literally what these atoms are doing is they are bending
space-time to weigh 5/9s. He says, "There are theories in the
published journals, credible journals, about moving faster than
the speed of light, from one place to another. But to do it you
must have what's called exotic matter, matter that has no gravitational
attraction at all." Do you know that iridium at 70 degrees Centigrade,
I mean 70 degrees Fahrenheit, has no gravitational attraction at
all, and that 70 degrees Fahrenheit is the temperature of your
body, or above, or that your body's above that. And so literally
if our body becomes filled with the light, we literally eat this
until our light body exceeding our physical body, then we supposedly
become light beings.

<P>
And our physical body no longer controls our light body, our light
body now controls our physical body. And anywhere we can think we
would like to go, we can travel there not only spiritually, but
physically, and take our physical body with us. Now coincidentally,
in the Bible, this is referred to as the rapture. It says, two will
be working in the field and one will be gone, two will be laying
in bed and one will be gone. It will be a physical taking up and
disappearing from where you're at. It says in Revelations, 'Blessed
be the man who will overcome for he shall be given the hidden manna,
the white stone of purest kind, up on which will be written a new
name." [Rev. 2:17] You will not be the same person you were before
you took the material.

<P>
It actually says you will have a new name, you will be a different
person. When you become filled with the spirit, when you become
filled with the chrism, you are not the same person you were before.
All of that DNA that these biomedical people can't figure out what
it's it in your body for, it's actually there to function, it just
isn't working right now.

<P>
Right now we only use 8-10 percent of our brain. What's the other
90 percent there for? Did we evolve a brain that we don't use? I
don't think so. It's like at some ancient time we used that brain,
and we used that DNA, and we were a different perso n. Well that
sure sounds awfully philosophical, doesn't it. The Bible says that
at one time we were the Adam Kadmon, we were the angelic being,
and we have fallen to this animalistic state. But in the Bible, it
says, that the day will come when the ancient of days returns here
to Earth. Who is the ancient of days? The ancient of days is the
Adam Kadmon, the original man And when this man returns here and
he literally can read your thoughts in your mind without you opening
your mouth, how much more could you ever be judged? No more skeletons
in the closet, no more hidden agendas. Everything's known. In the
Bible they call it the opening of the book of life.

<P>
It's the time that everything gets judged, everything gets revealed.

<P>
And then, and only then, will you see Christ again. That's when he
returns. Okay? In Revelations, it says, the streets of the new
Jerusalem, will be paved with gold so pure as like unto transparent
glass. [Rev. 21:21] Gold so pure as like unto transparent glass,
and the foundations are made of gold like unto transparent glass.
[Rev. 21:18]

<P>
Now if that isn't heavy enough for you, when I found out that the
name for the golden tree of life was the ORME, ormus or ormes.
And the name of my patent is Orbitally Rearranged Monatomic Elements.
In the Book of Isaiah, it says a latter day David, a descendant of
the Davidic blood line, my cousin, bless her soul joined the Mormon
Church, and they had her do her genealogy, and my great-great-great
grandmother, was Hanna de Guise, daughter of Christopher de Guise,
brother of Charles or Claude de Guise, who if you got a copy of
"Holy Blood Holy Grail" there, Charles or Claude de Guise is in
the book. Nostradamus worked for the de Guise family and Nostradamus
prophesied by 1999 the occult gold will be known to science. Very
specific prophecy, very exact dates, very precise. And a descendent
of this family, a latter day David, is the one who's to plant the
Golden Tree of Life.

<P>
And I didn't know any of this when I filed my patent. And so when
you realize what this is, and you realize what it does, and you
realize why it's here, then you realize why my job is not to make
money with it. I can't make money with it. My job is to tell those
people who are ready for it what the state of things are and when
it's going to be available. I can't sell it, I will solicit donations
to cover our costs in producing it. But it has to be made available
for those people who are ready for it.

<P>
And this is called the Lesser Keys of Solomon, the Keys to the
Kingdom.

<P>
Remember the Petra, the Rock, held the keys to the Kingdom, Peter,
the Keeper of the Keys? And this is called the Keys to the Kingdom.

<P>
It's not the answer, but it's the door that unlock, it's the key
that unlocks the door to the answer. You no longer have to die to
literally come face to face with the angels, to experience what
most of these people call, when they died and came back to life,
it's an unbelievable feeling of oneness. The closest most of you
will ever be to another person is during the moment of sex. Think
about it? And yet this is even more than that. Because you're one
heart and one mind with everyone. Somebody said it would make a
great title for a book, "Better Than Sex".

<P>
Well, it is all about love, total oneness with everyone. It's
perfect telepathy, perfect communication, it's total love and total
oneness.

<P>
When you understand that superconductors don't have to touch, okay,
we're back to the science again. In electricity, the wires have to
touch before electricity can flow from one wire to another wire,
but superconductors can sit at a distance, and as long as they are
in resonant harmony, and their Meissner fields touch, they are one.
Because they flow light between them. So they act as one superconductor.
So when you are a perfect superconductor, and she is a perfect
superconductor, you are one with her heart and her mind. You know
all things about her. Perfect telepathy.

<P>
And that is the Judgment. That is the Oneness.

<P>
Now what does it do in the body? It literally corrects the DNA, by
a process the equivalent of a denaturing solution, the DNA relaxes
and recombines corrected. So all diseases that originate with a
problem with the DNA can be corrected, but your reason for taking
it cannot be to correct a disease. Your reason for taking it has
to be a philosophical reason. It has to be to enlighten and to
raise the nature of mankind. If in doing that, it happens to cure
the diseases, so be it. Anyway I don't want to give all of the
lecture tomorrow, ah, tomorrow in the workshop, what I want to do
is we're gonna present transparencies of the history of the alchemy,
the philosopher's stone. We're going to give you the, a bunch of
the, the books that I found that are very excellent books. We're
going to read from some of those and put them up on the board,
we're going to read from, ah, in addition to the science. And so,
I hope the workshop will have something for about everybody. Ah,
I think you all know, most of know what this stuff is and why it
is here now. Most of you had known it was coming. It, eventually,
was going to be here.

<P>
And, ah, this is an ultra-conservative, right wing, John Birch type
guy here, and, ah, you know, one who believes that the free-enterprise
system is the best system given the nature of man like he is. He's
selfish and he's greedy, and he's to be, tempted with money and
wealth, and when you understand what this is, this changes the
nature of man, that literally all of the things we value now are
no longer important. When you no longer need to eat, when you
literally can be fed on the resonance fields of the universe. All
you need is water. When you no longer need energy, you can travel
anywhere you want just by thinking where you'd like to be and be
there. When you can live 800-1,000 years with perfect body, literally
every cell in your body perfected and corrected. And then your
metabolism speeds up about 45 or 50 percent, you return to the
state you were when you were a teenager and you can stay in that
state. This is what the material is.

<P>
We don't have all the answers yet. There's a tremendous amount of
research study that needs to be done by the medical people on it.
We have an awful lot of doctors already working on it. AIDS, cancer
all working on it. We have National Institute of Health licensing
and permitting to do it. And, ah, all I can tell you is it's here,
it ain't going to go away if you don't believe it, and, ah, it will
change the world more than anything in the last 2,000 years.

<P>
Okay? [end of lecture]

<HR>

<P>
[
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-toc.html">Table-of-Contents</A>
·
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-a-discovery.html">Discovery</A>
·
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-d-white-powder-gold.html">White Powder Gold</A>
·
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-e-qa.html">Q&amp;A</A>
·
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-f-workshop-1.html">Workshop-1</A>
·
<A HREF="1995-02-dallas-g-workshop-2.html">Workshop-2</A>
]

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</HTML>

22. ### HOWARDSTERNHOWARDSTERN has logged out....Registered Senior Member

Messages:
364
sTAIRWAY TO hEAVEN (Led Zepplin)

<b><font color="royalblue"><font size="5">Well that was different</b></font color></font size>

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........fascinating..........pure energy!!!!!!

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..........<font size="4"> Before any of you !*\$#^@......get started..I DIDN'T WRITE THE ABOVE ARTICLE!!!!!!!</FONT SIZE>

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..........I just posted from the address that our "old" buddy: Time/02112........ gave out in a previous post.

WHITE POWDER GOLD. NOT OF THE COCO VARIETY, I HOPE.

Damn! Where is Mr. Boris (the wise old owl) when you need him!!!!.....??????

<I><font size="4"> BUT SERIOUSLY NOW FOLKS</I></FONT SIZE>

There are some interesting points............days of fasting, spiritual enlightenment, ect...

<B>However... (Howey-evers....)........</B>

<I>"I'm not a doctor so I can't practice medicine.
Anything that is administered to someone for the purpose of curing
a disease is medicine. So therefore I can't tell you on tape what's
been done with it, what the doctors who have giving it have done
with it, but I can tell you that at 2 mg. it totally has gotten
rid of Karposi Sarcomas on AIDS patients, at 2 mg. per day. 2 mg.
per day. There's 32,000 milligrams in an ounce, 2 mg. is nothing.
And it gets rid of "KS". I can tell you that people who have taken
it, at 2 mg. injections, within 2 hours, their white blood cell
count goes from 2,500 to 6,500 white blood cells. I can tell you
that stage 4 cancer patients have taken it orally, and after 45
days have no cancer anyplace in the body. We're not gonna go into
any more specifics than that. I will talk to you about it later
when the cameras aren't running.

I am not a doctor"

<b>(commentary by Howard):</i>Now run this by me again!!!!!!!!! Is the author of the article proposing that this "White Gold" is a miracle cure-all for a variety of illnesses????????</b></i>

Primarily I am most interested in this "White Gold". What is it??? The distillation of Gold into a powder?????? Now being that your old buddy Howard knows a thing or two about the distillation of alchohol, I know a little about the refinement of distillation processes in which a subject chemical is evaporated off (boiled) away from the base & then condensed into a different container to hopefully produce a much more refined version................ect, ect... ..........

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Now I am Not going to be a total sh..err....Craphead about this! There are many things in this article which has a tendency to excite one's imagination! This is actually a good thing. Further research on the part of the reader will possibly disprove a lot of these things, but it nonetheless does cause an emotional response in disbelievers as well as some who are 'highly imaginative'. This is a good thing.

That the post of time/... opens up other minds to other possibilities is actually awesome!!!! And I ain't just sayin' that to be patronizing!!!!!!!!! The investigation of Egyptology and all the other ancient writings can only add to one's arsenal of Science studies!!!!!!!!!! In fact I continue to believe that any student of science who attempts to be singularly specialized in one field of science will never be able to stand out & above the already crowded science specialities.

In other words,<i>"VARIETY IS THE *SPICE* OF LIFE" (Herbert's DUNE)</i>

.....................???????????????

..........I think I'll go back to the actual website and read some more. The spiritual orgasim part is particularly fascinating

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23. ### HOWARDSTERNHOWARDSTERN has logged out....Registered Senior Member

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364
I ENJOY MY CONVERSATIONS WITH PHD'S.. VERY MUCH.

<I><B>Dear Sir,

I very much appreciate your conversation on this science forum. Seldom do I get the chance to converse on the various subjects with someone who is willing to engage with such a maniac.....that I am!

Especially German! Hell, half of my bloodline is germanic. As my great-great grandfather told me, the old family name of my German ancestors was "Von Holdenburg"......originally. As the time passed from the mid 19th century, the old family name was Americanized~~~~~~... to Holdendburg~~~, then to Holdenburo~~~~~~, then to Holderby. Anyhow....my sir name is Old English........

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Anyhow!!!!!!!

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Where was I?

<b>I checked out the address of your site and read on. I liked it a lot! Often I am seen as an atheist and a disbeliever, Hermann. Let me assure you sir, and all the others who read these posts (that don't normally post their thoughts for fear that HOWARDSTERN will jump down their throats (an American saying)) THAT I AM <U>NOT</U> AN ATHEIST, AT ALL ! ! !

In fact, I am a very spiritual and a deeply religious individual. <i>If you really want to know the truth Hermann, I am probably more faithful than the POPE HIMSELF!</i>

It is not my intention to draw doubt onto the faithful. Often however, I do get a chuckle from some of the Zealots, ect..... There are the anti-ZEALOTS (atheist) as well. Those who cannot find truth in the religions generally don't have the ability to find truth in the cold, hard logicals either.

<font size="4"><font color ="blue">YES, THERE IS SUCH A THING AS SPIRITUAL ENERGY</FONT COLOR></FONT SIZE>

I don't understand or really have a clue as to how this "spiritual energy" works. I wouldn't even suggest that it may be electromagnetic in it's base form! I have no Sci....or even psuedo-Sci idea in regards to it's origins. It does exist. I am quite sure of that. But all attempts to document it , except for a few, have failed. its almost like this energy has "Stage Fright".

There is something to be understood about the very thin line between science and religion. That undefineable point makes me wonder if there is not a little of each (religion in science as well as science in religion) on both sides of the fence! Both science and faith hold at their heart, the search for truth. Heck, by coincidence, I also have a deep desire to always find the truth.

............later...