General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again

Government has a monopoly on the initiation and legitimate use of force against innocent people. Of course, those people must be located with in a geopolitical land-area and are denoted as 'Citizen of....'.


Sorry Joe, this is a simple legal fact.

 

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You can be sorry all you want, but goverment doesn't have a monopoly on the use of force per my previous post. Parents, good parents, set rules and enforce those rules. Businesses use rules and enforce those rules. And then there is the matter of everyday bullies who use force to inflict their will. Your refusal to acknowledge reality won't make it go away.

 

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You are smoking crack Joe.

Let's see, since having a Central Bank we've had one GREAT depression, that it caused. One World War. Nuked a couple of cities in Japan. Lost two wars in Asia. Lost two wars in the Middle East. Hell, we can't seem to make it through a generation without starting a phony war somewhere and killing a bunch of women and children. We also went off the gold standard. Went from having a single working father family of 5 to both parents work and are lucky if they can even have children. Many of those children will be shoveled into 'daycare' from 6 weeks old. Not to mention the number of regulations expand by the MILLIONS every year.


No, you are right about one thing, when given the option of living freely (laissez faire) or being regulated (progressive socialism) - Americans will chose the later any day of the week. As would MOST people in the world. That's what people want. It's why democracy must have a LIMITED government. Because freedom cuts across the very nature of what it means to be human. But guess what? Giving up freedoms, civil rights and personal privacy for regulations, fiat currency and labor-tax is NOT the path to prosperity. But, this IS the path we will travel. That much is guaranteed.



Americans never like freedom to begin with, as evidenced by our complicit condoning of human slavery for Christ's sake. And murdering off the Native Americans anytime any ounce of resource was found on their land. And murdering off competition any time a foreigner took jobs from 'whites'. Following the Civil War white America quickly soured on the idea called "freedom" and as soon as a demagogue coined some idiotic term "Robber Barrons" the general freedom-hating public was more than happy to 'tax the rich' (tax is just a polite way of saying steal from) - if it meant THEY could have more for less. Oh, but it didn't work out that way. See, the rich are not as idiotic as the cattle-class they sell shit too. Hence the Central Bank. Geee and it looks like it's the cattle-class are dragged off to various overseas wars about each generation and used as cannon fodder, the middle class that has to bail out the richest Americans, the middle class that pays the rich to work. The white middle class who passed 'minimum wage' laws to put blacks out of the market by preventing them from competing on wage. And all you have to do is say something like "Robber Barons" or "You use the roads" and then promise them something for nothing, and (thanks to Public 'Schooling') they'll believe ANYTHING and buy any bullshit you're peddling.

America, land of the Regulated
Home of the Tax-Cattle


So, yes, if there's two things the Peon class doesn't like - it's being free to think.

 

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Oh, is Government your mama now is it Joe? That sounds about right - progressive socialism.

No Joe, free ADULTS are not the same as CHILDREN. The government is NOT a Parent. Businesses may have rules - so what? Apple can not initiate force against an innocent customer - or they will be sued. See how simple this is? I promise, thinking won't hurt. Just try a little of it.


Government has the legal obligation to initiate legitimate force against innocent Citizens. This is a FACT.

Example:
Drug Law. As an Adult you are not legally allowed ownership over your body and can not legally smoke a week without fear of being put in a rape-cage.
Alcohol Tax/Sin Tax, where the STATE forced people to pay a tax on 'Sinful' things that the Regulators in the New Church deem 'bad for society' because they are your parents - and you are their child. They are the owner, you are the owned. They are the farmers. You are the tax-cattle.

moo moo moo

 

I'm smoking reality, you should give it a try. Unfortunately for you, Americans are pragmatists. They like what works.

 

Would 'pragmatic' people invade Vietnam over a lie? No, Joe - they would not. Would pragmatic people invade Iraq over a lie? No, Joe - they would not.

Americans are NOT a "pragmatic people", they're a diverse bunch of people who, like most people throughout history, enjoy being told what to do and when to do it. See, a 'pragmatic' type of people generally save and invest in their children's future. A morally bankrupt people sell bonds their children have to pay back and then claim it's for their own good, but reality any excuse would do.

The type of American that created the USA is nothing like the type of American waddling his/her fat hairy arse down the isles of Walmart, buying cheap shit made in China and whining there's no manufacturing while stuffing a doughnut-hole in their pie-hole and washing it down with a Coke-a-cola as they hurry back to their Dancing with the douche-bags on their idiot box.


Give me, give me, give me, now, now, now - this is the American people.

Exhibit A
(1) The Kingdome:
- first proposed for public funding in 1959 (rejected).
- second proposed for public funding in 1960 (voter rejected).
- third proposed for public funding in 1966 (voter rejected).
- fourth proposed for public funding in 1968 (voter accepted).

Geeee Joe, you're right, the American voter is so 'pragmatic' AND consistent.

(2) In 1968 the issue of US$40 million in municipal bonds was made to construct the stadium.
(3) Stadium opened in 1976
(4) Stadium condemned and demolished by implosion in 2000.

(5) Amount owed in 2010? A total debt of $80 million STILL OWED on the demolished stadium.


Yes Joe - how wonderful for those kids working from 2000 - 2010 and paying on a the $80 million loan their parents and grandparents took out in their name on a demolished stadium they can't use. Let me guess "You use the roads!" How nice for their grandparents. Indeed, if you were in your 30s in the early 70s you got to pretty much enjoy a FREE stadium as most of the money owed would be rolled over and shoveled ONTO your great grandchildren, many of whom, would never even see this supposed stadium.


Oh yes - such a f*cking "Pragmatic" people are we Americans.


What did it cost us to invade and lose a phony wars in Korea/Vietnam/Afghanistan/Iraq? Ah, just a generation of children who didn't get to stay home with the mothers. Mothers who instead have to go to work to help pay off the banks who own the debt. See, in the "real" world limited resources come at a cost - and with no War Tax, debt is used to cover that cost. Unlike what your moronic Keynesian idiots lead you to believe, WAR does NOT create prosperity. Killing and raping, and finally nuking, innocent women and children in Japan and fire-bombing Germany during WWII did NOT make America prosperous. Invading, killing, raping, and losing the Vietnam War does not make us prosperous. Invading Iraq and destroying their cities with depleted uranium dust - is NOT bringing prosperity to the USA.



The modern American is ANYTHING BUT pragmatic.
He is a simpleton superstitious animal, quick to believe Right-Left dichotomies and other various conspiracies while the true criminals, his so-called "Public Servants", force him to pay to work, create a trillion dollar spying agency to spy on him and, thanks to millions and millions and millions of idiotic "Sin" laws and useless regulations create a chain-store-shit-smear across what was once a diverse interesting country, one that now houses more prisoners per population than ANY OTHER country in the HISTORY of humanity.

Largest consumer of oil? US Federal Government.
Largest polluter in the history of humanity? US Federal Government.
Only entity that can initiate force against innocent people? Government. And what do we have to show for it? More Black prisoners in 2013 laboring in Government Prisons than there were Slaves!



Pragmatic - what a f*cking joke.

Americans are tax-cattle.
They'll stand around in their pen with an vacant idiotic glaze to their eyes chewing their cud and when their Farmer's/owners finally find no use more for them - off to the slaughterhouse they'll happily waddle.

 

Lol, the truth hurts you Michael. That is why you are obfuscating yet again.

 

Michael, I would hesitate to call you clueless, as you have a few inklings of a clue, but you miss the whole picture. We are actually highly under-regulated as a nation, and that's due to the influence of money. Since we are talking about GM, I would give you the example of leaded gasoline. Scientists determined that it was a toxic substance causing all sorts of health issues, but we continued to allow it to be sold for a long time because it was too profitable.

 

Exhibit A
(1) The Kingdome:
- first proposed for public funding in 1959 (rejected).
- second proposed for public funding in 1960 (voter rejected).
- third proposed for public funding in 1966 (voter rejected).
- fourth proposed for public funding in 1968 (voter accepted).

Geeee Joe, you're right, the American voter is so 'pragmatic' AND consistent.

(2) In 1968 the issue of US$40 million in municipal bonds was made to construct the stadium.
(3) Stadium opened in 1976
(4) Stadium condemned and demolished by implosion in 2000.

(5) Amount owed in 2010? A total debt of $80 million STILL OWED on the demolished stadium.




Here's an example of your generation doing what it does best - stealing.

 

No one said living in a 'free' society is easy - it's not. Which is why we aren't.

However, in regards to pollution (a) the US government is the world's largest consumer of limited energy (oil) in the history of humanity and (b) the largest polluter in the history of humanity and (c) emits more CO2 than any other entity, even through it produces nothing - well, other than waste.

How does a free society deal with lead in gasoline? We can't really know. However, IF a 'representative' government represents the will of the people, this means that the majority did not want lead in gasoline - if those people paid for unleaded, the free-market would respond by selling unleaded. Also, if you had evidence that your private property (including your body) were 'polluted' in any way by leaded gasoline, then you could sue or you could have a class-action law suite. IOWs, it IS possible to deal with problems in a free society. Also, free societies are able to come up with much better solutions than me, you or any bureaucrat. Free societies are also very prosperous and could easily afford the unleaded gasoline.


People didn't like freedom - and so we're not. And won't be. Not for a long time. Maybe one day.


NOTE: A UN study into the effects of the US Government using depleted uranium shells in Iraq have concluded the genetic integrity of the people in some areas is compromised and the land will NEVER be safely habitable by humans as the uranium will be radioactive for the lifetime of our planet. Asking the State to take care of the environment is like asking a rapist to babysit your children. Sure, maybe he'll make them a peanut butter sandwich. And then, later, he'll rape and murder them.

 

No people don't like being deceived. And your solution, let everyone fend for themselves, is very expensive and inefficient.

 

Joe, you used either or dichotomy, stawman, and then just made up the rest.

1) It's not either we have government -or- everyone fends for themselves. In the USA, circa 1870 - the ONLY contact most Americans ever had with the US Federal Government was through the US post office. And that was it. And get this Joe, American communities thrived, we were the richest nation in history and Americans most certain did NOT leave the destitute to die on the streets.

So, your bizarre historical narrative has no bases in what was reality for most Americans. Worse still, the Progressive State actually does end up with people living in broken homes (divorce rates sky-rocketed when the welfare state came into being) in welfare communities that are some of the most violent places to live - on Earth! People are suffocating in a toxic cloud of 'Government Services'.

2) Private communities develop and people become a part of them - the exactly opposite of 'fend for yourself'. Our best Universities are ALL private. They were derived from private people working together to provide education to one another.

3) The free-market is the exactly OPPOSITE of 'fend-for-yourself'. Jesus, you can only make money in a free society by TRADING WITH OTHER PEOPLE - and providing them with value for their money. The Government OTOH is the exact opposite. It uses force to steal your money/labor and you'll be lucky if you even see a fraction of value for what was forced out of you.




This last one is whale of a whooper.

4) Are you attempting to suggest the free-market is "very expensive and inefficient" and the Government is "inexpensive and efficient"?!?!? One more time *PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE*. Seriously, you live in La La land....

LA
LA
LAND

 

Exhibit A
(1) The Kingdome:
- first proposed for public funding in 1959 (rejected).
- second proposed for public funding in 1960 (voter rejected).
- third proposed for public funding in 1966 (voter rejected).
- fourth proposed for public funding in 1968 (voter accepted).

Geeee Joe, you're right, the American voter is so 'pragmatic' AND consistent.

(2) In 1968 the issue of US$40 million in municipal bonds was made to construct the stadium.
(3) Stadium opened in 1976
(4) Stadium condemned and demolished by implosion in 2000.

(5) Amount owed in 2010? A total debt of $80 million STILL OWED on the demolished stadium.



When your generation isn't doing what it does best - stealing, it's self-deluding.

Government "inexpensive and efficient".... LOL what a farce. Nearly 6 years and the "Government" is still trying to determine who's going to run a survey in a 50 mile radius of the bridge and see just how the people of NJ may or may not be effected by the increased boat size. Never mind boats that are 12 feet shorter, those are 'fine' but 12 feet taller - oh, that's going to cost $100s of millions of $US Debtars... I mean US 'Dollars' and a couple decades to figure out who does what and when.

 

Yeah, reality is knocking Michael. Answer the door.

 

Exhibit A
(1) The Kingdome:
- first proposed for public funding in 1959 (rejected).
- second proposed for public funding in 1960 (voter rejected).
- third proposed for public funding in 1966 (voter rejected).
- fourth proposed for public funding in 1968 (voter accepted).

Geeee Joe, you're right, the American voter is so 'pragmatic' AND consistent.

(2) In 1968 the issue of US$40 million in municipal bonds was made to construct the stadium.
(3) Stadium opened in 1976
(4) Stadium condemned and demolished by implosion in 2000.

(5) Amount owed in 2010? A total debt of $80 million STILL OWED on the demolished stadium.



When your generation isn't doing what it does best - stealing, it's self-deluding. Only a self-deluded self-absorbed generation of me me me self-centered jerk-offs would stick their great-grandchild with their bills. How pathetic. Something like this stadium, wouldn't even hold a candle to the maelstrom of debt your generation has sold on the next 5 generations of kids. You've sold so much debt, that the only solution is a Progressive Age tax that 'taxes' the assets of those babyboomers who have something and 'redistributes' them to the other babyboomers for the 'good of the nation'. Oh, and a Inheritance tax of, say, 100% - you know, just in case.

See, I can speak the lingo.
So? How's Social Progressiveness sound to you Joe? Pretty good? A nice "Progressive" age tax for the "Good of society"? You use roads - now it's time to pay for them

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Yes you can and use the language of demagoguery, but unfortunately that is all you can do. And by the way government had much more debt when I was born than it does today. it helps if you could get your facts straight. But then you are not interested in facts.

 

Right Joe, that's why it was possible to raise a family of 5 on a single income when you were a kid and young father and now both parents must work and they'll be lucky to raise maybe a single child - at best two.

From: The U.S. Debt Owed by Each American Throughout History

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WHY are Americans taking on so much debt Joe?
WHY have parents's given up all pretenses of being at home to *GASP* raise their children?
(I just listened to an idiotic 'argument' on the national radio on why mother's shouldn't be expected, practically 'forced', to take a full 3 weeks off work for postnatal care while fathers are only expected to take single week. To be 'Fair' and "equal' they should only be expected to take a single week off!)

Further reading: Mises.org

Let's stop and think about what life was like during and following WWII. Severe austerity coupled with high taxes on everyone, and anyone, who had assets. Personal savings went through the roof because there were no stocked shelves to buy anything - it was illegal to make anything not ordained by the State as 'necessary' for the War efforts. Not only that, people HAD personal savings to begin with - and they bought War Bonds with them. Civil Liberties were crushed. All part of the "War" effort. One of the reasons those in power LOVE War.

Now take another look at the personal debt per American in 2010 (this graph doesn't even go out to 2014 - I promise you, it's still going UP only much faster and much higher). Couple this crushing personal debt with ridiculous Government-caused inflation in medical care, school tuition, energy, housing (anything that's not electronic), and a total loss of any semblance of a 'free' market burdened with millions and millions and millions more regulations burdening a low-skilled public 'educated' workforce that can take a MCQ test but other than that, barely read and write - and MOST Americans are in debt up to their eye-balls.

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While 'early' retirement is probably a fine option during times of plenty. During times of War, no so much so. See, the State has the ability to initiate force against those who took 'early' retirement and to press them back into the work force - you know, for the good of the country. The State can really do anything it likes against anyone it likes. At least, now it can. The State can tax personal assets of those so fortunate to make a living, not by production, but by rent-seeking. Say, a 90% tax, like we had following WWII. It can, and will, do whatever it takes to ensure it's continued survival and expansion.

You think the 'rich' are evil (of which many probably), just wait until the middle class starts having to go without.

 

Taking on debt to fight an invasion is one thing.
Taking on debt to buy yourself goodies at the expense of your children is quite another.

Two totally different mindsets. Reflections of two totally different societies.

 

I agree, but that isn't what happened as has been explained to you numerous times before.

 

Except, it is possible, there are many single parents out there raising their families on one salary. Living on a single income is a life style choice.

That is meaningless material, it ignores income. It doesn’t even mention income or inflation. So the comparisons are irrelevant and misleading.

Actually, your premise is wrong again. Americans are taking on less debt when you adjust for relevant factors like income.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/housedebt/

I don’t know in what world you live in, but in mine that certainly isn’t the case.

This is a social issue, not an economic issue. When I raised a family, there was no leave for the father and only a couple of weeks for the mother to recover.

Except, almost all of the “facts cited” in that Von Mises article were wrong – damn minor details.

Assets were not taxed, then as now income was taxed. And it was not illegal to make anything “not ordained by the state” as necessary for the war effort. Restrictions were placed on materials deemed critical for the war effort, like some metals, foods, and textiles, etc.

Two, it matters little what the personal savings rate was during WW II. The fact is money was being spent in great quantities by the US government and the government borrowed and took on great debt and raised taxes to some very high levels in order to support that spending both during and after WWII. And the infringement on civil liberties had little macroeconomic impact or macroeconomic relevance. So I don’t see how that is relevant.

Except, none of that is true, damn minor details again, the growth in healthcare costs is slowing. Interest rates are at extraordinarily low levels and despite your rants; we still have a free market system. As has been explained to you numerous times over the course of years, just because we have an income tax and just because some markets are regulated, it doesn’t mean they are not free (e.g. restaurants).

And the chart you referenced below does not look at personal debt. It is a chart of public debt. And the dramatic increase in recent years was due to two things, the fiscal profligacy of the George Junior (i.e. Republican) spending and the Great Recession of 2007 - 2009. The fiscal profligacy of George Junior was unneeded and was totally unwarranted. The deficit spending caused by The Great Recession was totally warranted. It was vital.

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That is absolute gibberish. It makes no sense.

No I don’t think the rich are evil. The rich are necessary and play a vital role in our society. And there are some wealthy industrialists who have earned every penny and are worth every penny they have earned. Being a good CEO isn’t easy. However, the excessive concentration of wealth can and has become problematic for the US economy. If you believe in a meritocracy as I do, then you need to keep the economy competitive and too much capital in the hands of too few, leads to rent seeking and market inefficiencies. That is why it is necessary for government to redistribute that capital (i.e. tax the wealthy) and invest in infrastructure (i.e. things that make the economy competitive).

Unfortunately, the people who fund your ideology (e.g. Koch brothers) keep you distracted with shiny baubles. So that you never get to the real problems, you are constantly chasing your tail. The real problems are the officials who represent us and the election systems which elect them and maintain them in office. If you want to fix our problems, fix the system which created them. Fix the system that gave us George Junior. It wasn't that difficult to see George Junior was an idiot, a fool, a patsy, and a pawn.