gender views cause of incel.

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by gamelord, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    When I read your posts, I hear Kelsey Grammar's voice in my head.

     
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  3. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    But it hasn't really significantly diminished in younger generations. We like to pat ourselves on the backs and tell ourselves that we're more "progressive," with respect to misogyny specifically, than previous generations, but really only circumstances have changed while attitudes remain largely the same. With incels and all this manosphere shit, the blame externalization is even more exaggerated--and these guys (the most vocal, prominent, and murderous ones) are mostly in their 20's.
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    Because the two balls and the big stick that is replaced with a gun amuses me...

    Some may believe it is indicative of penis envy..

    I just think the softly softly approach of gentle poking with a stick and being pushed aside by another going nuclear with a machine gun reminds me of a lot of people on this website..

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    I kid of course..

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    The avatar came after the name. My previous avatar caused some pearl clutching as it was of a cartoon image of someone bending over mooning..
     
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  7. gamelord Registered Senior Member

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    Bells, I have been reading your posts, and you seem like you are a bigot of incels.

    You claim that all incels are either violent or morons. Well I have news for you, not all incels are violent, and many are intelligent and nerds.
    The views coming from 4chan are not reflective of all incels. I tried to explain that to you, but you don't want to hear it. You read a couple articles on Huffington post, which demonizes incels and says they are violent, then you, in typical bigot fashion extrapolate that information to all incels.

    Incels, meaning involuntary celibate. I have read some posts from r/incel which are non-violent, I have even read posts on incels.me which are non-violent. But convincing a bigot to abandon lumping everyone into the same boat, is always an uphill climb. Bigotry is a result of binary thinking: A way of life that treats everyone the same, all of group X is either good, or all of group X is evil.

    You demonstrate more evidence of this kind of thinking when you claim all incels have bad personalities, and that it could never be due to their looks or social status. Where is your evidence? You just make these statements out of thin air.

    For instance, I had a therapist, he was incel. A total pacifist and meek kind of person, who believed in Jesus. Surely he is not a "predator" like you claim all involuntary celibates are? And what about the weakling beta males? Women often pass them up, to date predatory and abusive, alpha males.

    Another point you seem to be missing, is that most incels did not start out violent, but became that way after multiple rejects and social ostracizations. Does not excuse their violence, however it points out you have a misplaced sense of cause and effect, bigots tend to claim that people who are oppressed are the sole cause of their own oppression.

    In simple terms, so you cannot twist it around and resort to emotional red herrings: Incels did not wake up one morning hating or wishing violence on women. They got that way after a repeated string of rejections and social ostrizations. Therefore you cannot empirically claim their hatred/violence is the original cause of their rejections.

    That is probably true, but the kind of men who murder their wives are not incel. Incels do not have wives.


    In any case, the crux of the argument between us, amounts to this.

    I come out saying, women are excessively picky, predatory, and only pick out males who conform to a rigid set of standards.

    Then you side step the issue, saying "women avoid men because they are violent".
    _____________________________________________________________

    The whole argument had nothing to do with violence, you bring up the topic as an emotional appeal to distract from discussing the topics I present, it is a red herring, a trick you use.


    So my main points are this: Women do not always avoid violent men, 45% of murders are of their wives or girlfriends. Therefore, women have a flawed ability to accurately detect which man will be violent and who isn't. Since women ending up in violent marriages is so common, and incels getting dates is so uncommon, we cannot accurately statistically correlate the two phenomenon as reliable cause and effect. Rather, the reliable cause and effect of incel is this:

    Womens preferences: Obedience to social norms, have good social status, be of good pedigree, and a good income. If you are a male who has a low income, does not conform to social norms, is not fully white or fully black, or does not have many friends, you will have a tougher time finding a woman. It has been statistically proven that women are racist on OkCupid and other dating sites. If you wont admit their racism, then you are defending racists from being examined or put under scrutiny.

    Now there is one more thing I didn't mention: Confidence. If you don't have confidence, women won't treat you like a person. Let's examine the reality here: Women want you to entertain them. And if you can't entertain them, the will be bored with you.

    And lets put forth the final piece of the puzzle: Unreasonable standards. For example, certain women would not date a man who had a zodiac sign they did not approve of. That is a sign of extreme picky behavoir and bigotry: Judging someone negatively over circumstances outside of their control.

    Let's examine the facts with no more bs: Men want women for sex, validation about his self-worth, and emotional support. Women want men for entertainment, sex, financial support, emotional support, and validation of her social-worth.

    No more side stepping the issues.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    22,715
    Whatever gave you the impression that I would support an ideology that is harmful and deadly to women and men for that matter? That views women as pieces of meat?

    Detesting an ideology that is so inherently harmful, dangerous and even deadly to others is a good thing in my opinion.

    Clearly your disagree...

    Err okay..

    One does not automatically mean the other.

    Secondly, incel culture is violent in how it views women. It is hateful, bigoted and more often than not, it buys into this racist ideal of the 'perfect woman'. It is a culture filled with self obsessed, self absorbed, selfish, materialistic, entitled twats.

    And I mean that literally.

    You are incapable of accepting responsibility for your actions, behaviour or anything else really, because it's just so much easier to blame women. Women won't go out with you? Instead of, oooooh, I don't know, looking inwards to see that perhaps it's the self obsessed, self absorbed, selfish, materialistic, entitled attitude you have that could be putting them off, you blame the women..

    I am not talking about 4chan. I am talking about what you and at least one other have stated in this thread.

    Dude, you literally advocated rape in this thread. Literally:

    The fact that women actually do enjoy sex, baffles you, because in your warped mind, her role is only to satisfy you. You justify drugging and raping women because in your warped mind, that's the only way she can enjoy a sexual encounter.

    Or when you came out with this rubbish:

    No, a date or dating does not imply sexual contact. If you think a date or dating a woman implies sexual contact, then you could very well be raping her, particularly if you take to drugging her first.

    This is some of the utter crap you have been posting and you don't think it's violent?

    How about when you came out with this gem:

    If you are stressing a woman because you think that will turn her on, then it's safe to say that you are doing it wrong. To the one, if you are making a woman afraid or making her feel fearful, then the sex is not implied and consent is not going to be given. Making women so stressed out because you think it leads to sexual attraction, through either fear, discomfort, paranoia (no, seriously, what the actual fuck?), then that is violent. Stressing someone out like that is psychological abuse.

    And you think what you do or post is non-violent?

    As far as I am concerned, you're the psycho I cross the road to avoid. You are the type of guy that would see me lock my hand into a fist with the keys between my fingers when I am walking to my car and you nearby.
    I have provided you link after link after link. You have provided cartoons and horrific judgement and opinions of your own bad personality.

    It is astonishing that you think you are not violent. I have repeatedly asked you to back up your claims in this thread, claims you have made about women, for example, and you have failed to do it even once.

    That actually makes a lot of sense.... It now makes sense as to why you stated earlier that your therapist saw nothing wrong with your goddamn sick attitude.
    You still do not understand what is wrong with the whole attitude and culture of "incels", do you? Still? After how many pages?

    You view women as objects to be owned and controlled. You believe that is what women are there for, to please you and want you, and you are so self absorbed and entitled that you cannot fathom the fact that your words, behaviour and actions, the creepy vibe you give off, is why women won't date you. So you then start talking utter rubbish about women, because god forbid it's you.

    Your celibacy is because of how you behave, what you believe and how you conduct yourself. It is because of your personality. Which are completely under your control. So it is not involuntary. If you act, speak and carry on like a misogynistic creep, women won't want to date you or sleep with you. It is that simple. And as far as I am concerned, given the rubbish you have posted in this and other threads, you are a predator. It is only a matter of time.
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

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    22,715
    The incel is the bigot.

    The self obsessed and entitled nature of incels is why they are rejected to begin with. The believe that women owe them something, is not something that just crept up. In other words, incels tend to believe that they are owed sex, that women owe them this and when these women rightly reject them, they blame the women. Elliot Rodger blamed a 10 year old girl for all of his issues. He had a crush on her when he was 12 years of age and she was 10. She showed no interest in him and did not really know him and that hatred festered until he committed mass murder. And you want to say that his hatred and violence is not the original cause of his rejections for the rest of his life? Really?

    Firstly, you completely took what I said out of context which is very dishonest of you.

    Secondly, I have pointed out to you, with links, several times now, of why you are wrong. It is you who is predatory. Arguing that women can only enjoy sex if she is drugged, and stating that sex is implied if she is dating a man, is predatory behaviour. Very very much so.

    You are the only one who has gone on and on about pretty women, who has been obscenely picky about looks and particular standards. No one else has been.

    Thirdly, if the standard of 'don't be a misogynistic and entitled creep' is too hard for you, then you should not be dating. If you are so obsessed with how she looks and what you seem to expect of her, then you should not be dating.

    Your attitude towards women is toxic.
    Because the incel movement itself is violent in its very nature.
    Wow.. Just wow..

    And you wonder why women won't date you?

    A few things you should look up.

    Cycle of violence. Women do not enter relationships knowing it will be violent. When the violence starts, by that point, several other things have already occurred in the lead up to the violence. Isolation, blame, fear, causing her to doubt herself, etc.. So when the violence becomes physical, the conditions are already ripe for her to instantly believe it was her fault, that she has done something wrong. He then apologises, gives her flowers, cries about how sorry he is but it's really her fault because she did not do this or that, or she did this or that which set him off, and that he did it because he loves her.. And the cycle begins again, over and over and over again.

    Incels tend to believe that they are owed things by women and only by particular women. You view women as second to yourself. To be controlled, owned. When you discussed prositutions earlier in this thread, you talked about "buying" a prostitute, because to you, women can be bought and owned and ultimately controlled. Her wants and desires do not even rate a mention. I mean hell, you think it matters so little that you believe she needs to be drugged and raped to really enjoy it.

    So women who do not fit that mold for you, are bitches, evil, racist, etc.. When the reality is that she isn't dating you because she simply isn't into you and that is probably because of how you view her to begin with.

    It is clear that you have no idea about women's preferences. To the one, you cannot even understand how women are separate and individual people with vastly different likes, dislikes, wants, desires. To you, women all want and expect the same thing, because that is what you are conditioned to believe about women.
    What?
    Women aren't puppies.
    Did you get this shit out of 'Incels R Us' magazine or something?

    Honestly, you know absolutely nothing about women.

    Validation about their self worth?

    Shallow much?

    And you wonder why women won't date you?

    You left out the more human emotions. Such as companionship, friendship, partnership, understanding, someone to laugh and talk to and with, shared interests, intelligence, humour, quirks, family..

    Instead, you went for validation and personal satisfaction.
     
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  10. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Just to pick on this point.

    I'm guessing it wasn't psychoanalysis. I don't remember if it was Freud or someone else, (yet it grows out of the old, general original Freudian theme of little boys having issues with their mothers). If, say, someone had issues with the opposite sex, a psychoanalyst of the patients opposite sex was preferable because it would be more likely to provoke a transference to be analyzed. So, in affect, your therapist may have validated a personality disorder instead of treating it.

    The above is not word salad, just concise. (I think.)

    :EDIT:

    A therapist that believed in Jesus? That'd be a red flag in my books. Why the fuck would that topic need even come up in therapy?
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  11. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Moreover, what kind of "therapist" tells his patient that he (the therapist) is an incel?
     
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  12. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, true. The Jesus is exponentially way cooler than that.
     
  13. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    I think we can reasonably conclude that many of gamelord's tales are just fabricated bullshit, but can you even imagine a therapist who is an incel? Would he have female patients? What would he possibly say to them?

    Though I could believe that he had a therapist who is a misogynist--there's a lot of those out there. Psychology, psychiatry, and neurology are overrun with them, in fact. I'm not gonna back up that claim with hard evidence, as, for obvious reasons, such is largely nonexistent. What does exist, however, is an abundance of anecdotal evidence. That said, there are studies that show that women are far more likely to be diagnosed with BPD, whereas men, exhibiting the same markers, will be diagnosed with PTSD. Also--and this one is more anecdotal--women are less likely to receive an epilepsy diagnosis; rather, they are told they are suffering from anxiety and panic attacks.
     
  14. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Thing is, this "incel" concept is still fairly new to me. There are so many despicable people out there that, Elliot Rodger, didn't strike a chord, and I've been privileged enough to be able to navigate away from uncool situations. It wasn't till the attack in Toronto when it got on my radar.

    If you would grant me, in my liberal mind, to draw a parallel to this naivete. I wasn't aware there was such a virulent side to America until Donald Trump hit the scene.

    I mean, I watched the Red Pill documentary and dismissed it as a bunch of men disgruntled, not because they're incels or something, but their socioeconomic position sucked. It's hard for me to fathom some incel culture, because it is unequivocally retarded. How can all those men possibly be so developmentally delayed? Can all of them have had a neurotic upbringing, I mean, all of them?

    At the time, while I was rifling through a lot of documentation, I was trying to think about how an incel can still be socially amiable. If something is so crazy stupid culturally there must an antithesis I'm overlooking. And, yes, a therapist indicating to their patient that they're an incel is fucked beyond belief. Since, Bells, seems to know way more than I do on this and very little is known about the therapist, I conceded in my mind that this guy got his balls ripped off in an accident.

    Also, I'm more aware of the evils of religion than incels and it was an afterthought edit anyway.

    * * *

    As for me personally, I've seen therapists of different sorts before. Well after the time when there seemed to be two schools of thought. Where personality disorder was deemed a chemical imbalance and what psychoanalysis did could simply be accomplished with drugs -- the two were then used in conjunction if necessary. Since psychoanalysis was left a little to the wayside, I soon saw that I knew more than my therapists and wouldn't let myself be misdiagnosed but, more or less, get the a prescription for the psychoactive drugs I wanted. Any doctor can prescribe drugs they don't have to be a specialist.

    There was a time I was tremendously curious is psychology but for that I'd have to be a neurologist as well I thought. Like, Wilder Penfield, sliding an electrode on an exposed brain. The way I saw it, neurology would be to psychology the way math is to physics. I didn't know if I can handle that, so meh.
     
  15. gamelord Registered Senior Member

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    661
    More bs, it never ends.

    Now people can't believe Christian therapists, or incel therapists exist.

    The bs never ends.

    Here is where the bs begins.

    Going to stop you right there.

    You start with a bigotted statement, saying that "incel is an idealogy".

    Black is not an idealogy. It is a condition.

    Incel is not an idealogy. It is a condition.

    Some blacks see eye to eye, many blacks like rap music. not all do.
    Not all incels see eye to eye, but they share the same condition.

    Let me know when you want to take a break from being a bigot and argue reasonably, without using emotionally fueled tricks and tactics.

    If you said "Black men view women as a piece of meat" I could easily call you a racist and get thunderous applause.

    But when you use the same argument for incels, you get the support of the audience, because Incel is well, the new thing to be a bigot of, since its no longer cool to be racist, humans have to have a new outlet for their bigotry, a new scapegoat to abuse, a new target for humanity's collective ids.

    The bigotry never went away, it was just replaced with something else. You see, humans will always be the same, never able to escape their long lineage of ancient bigotry.
     
  16. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    I think it's more like a whine.
     
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  17. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  18. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    A person can't choose to be black.

    And do you even know what the term "ideology" means? Or "condition," for that matter?
     
  19. akoreamerican Registered Senior Member

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    589
    Do you believe having sex with someone is your right or a mutually agreed interaction between two people?
     
  20. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Just to be picky again, could your therapist prescribe drugs, or at least refer you to a doctor (i.e. psychiatrist) that could?
     
  21. gamelord Registered Senior Member

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    Incels have been around before 1993, there have been people who could not get a date before then. However, ever since 1993 it has been getting harder and harder to get a date in America.

    That is my whole point. Incel is involuntary, thus it is not a choice.

    And there is a certain idealogy associated with black people, but it is racist to believe all blacks follow the same ideaology, just as it is prejudice to believe all incels agree on everything.


    I believe sex is a human need, but that it is morally wrong to force someone to have sex.

    I don't get why people have so much faith in drugs. Many of them have side effects. What is your goal here? To reduce my libido? Then we still have the problem of loneliness itself.



    Now my crucial post to Bells is this:
    It is not that you and I are that different from each other. We both hate people for the same reasons.

    For instance, you claim "males view women as a piece of meat."

    My argument is that women just view males as a piece of meat. For example, in terms of looks, say there is a 5/10 looking guy and a 5/10 loooking woman. The 5/10 guy is willing to date a 3/10 woman, but the 5/10 woman is only willing to date a 10/10 guy. And that is what I have a problem with, the same shallow behavoir you accuse men of. It's just, I see it as women are more guilty of it than men, but very good at covering it up. Then someone will post about some famous ugly person, who gets a lot of girls, and I'm like, that' still shallow af, it's saying you have to be rich and famous to find love. So you and I aren't that different, it's just you won't accept that women are guilty of the things you dislike about people.
     
  22. akoreamerican Registered Senior Member

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    Its not a human need. Saying that is a like a guy trying to tell a girl that a man would die if they didn't get sex. That would be lying, right?
     
  23. gamelord Registered Senior Member

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    Many incels do die and commit suicide.

    Sex is a human need. So is attention and companionship. Mental illness and depression forms without it. It is proven that celibates have lower lifespans than sexually healthy people. It is not healthy living a life where you are constantly told you are too physically unnattractive to love.
     

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