Gay marriages would destroy geneology and lead to inbreeding

I thought you meant Ivan the Terrible. Yes, without God all is permitted. However what makes you think that having everything permitted is "good". With no universal good, we would be prompted to do absolutly nothing and that forbids deciding that emptyness is good. So what you believe effects how you behave. Otherwise there would be no point to believing in Jesus.

 

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okinrus:
I don't think it's good or bad, it just is. I used to find it unpleasant...now I've more or less gotten used to it.

I disagree. We still have the instinct to survive, to create. We don't need an idea of universal good in order to be.

 

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And I would suggest that homosexuality exists, and is a natural occurence, hence the topic of this thread is, in good couthy scots, mince.

 

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Flores, thanks for the unfounded and offensive analogy between gays and AIDS patients. Are you suggesting there's something that would infect children raised by a homosexual couple?

 

okinrus, you keep changing the spellings and meanings of the words. now you're just making things up.

i think i've figured out what flores's problem with "The gays" is. after reading through all her posts in this thread it is clearly apparent that she has repressed bisexual tendencies. let it out girl. accept who you are and be free. there's nothing wrong with listening to your body.

 

since i have given up on faggotry, i been keeping busy with the family tree. yknow.. branches sprouting out all over the place. it seems that, when deposited in the correct orifice, my seed is very potent! hmm, it just struck me...fags are tree trimmers!

go hef g hef! i dont think it humanely possible to get any shallower!

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This is the real issue for you, isn’t it? That homosexual marriage somehow devalues or "pollutes" heterosexual marriage, in the same way that some people don’t like blacks moving into their neighbourhood.

Obviously you attach a certain “status” to marriage, define yourself by it, which is why you feel personally threatened by the notion of homosexual marriage.

You value it as a bit of social shorthand that lets everyone know what kind of person you are and what your “values” are. With homosexual marriage in place, being a “married” woman wouldn’t generate quite the same assumptions anymore, now would it? Maybe you need to find some more meaningful ways to define yourself.

 

Marriage is now a medical term?

I found that it's probably best to just pay your arguments lip service around the time you started suggesting demonic forces as a reality in another thread. Oh, and you've got that backwards, if someone doesn't argue on the premise of "Well the cosmic sky father says so" then they actually have to rely on logic and sometimes even facts in a debate. That's quite a novelty isn't it?

 

"Marriage is now a medical term?"
Your being way to obtuse. I did use "like".

Without God, there is no objective good. So what were left with is arguing about whose definition is better when it is impossible to have an objective definition. I have to admit though, Flores argument here does not make much sense. Only mormons would want their family tree that large

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Is that idea really so scary? Are you unwilling to accept the fact that what may work for you may not work for everyone else? Or better yet, that to impose your morals on others despite their own wishes is going to make them very unhappy with you?

 

If you don't think your morals should be obeyed, then let the chains go. If my definition of marriage is between a man and a woman, then shouldn't I be free to live that belief?

I haven't imposed my beliefs on anyone.

 

"If you don't think your morals should be obeyed, then let the chains go. If my definition of marriage is between a man and a woman, then shouldn't I be free to live that belief? "

But of course. And those how think that marriage is also possible between two women or two men should also be possible to live that belief. However, feel free to exclude homosexual marriage from the services offered by your church, we are talking about civil marriages here are we not?

"I haven't imposed my beliefs on anyone."

Except you seem to be wanting to impose them on homosexuals, although you have actually been very quiet this thread.

 

Shouldn't beliefs be allowed to influence the political sphere as well? If we really believe that marriage is between a husband and a wife, shouldn't our polical view express our real view? If the two differ, are we not being hypocritical and double minded?

Not really. I've been alittle harder than perhaps I should have been. It's not really so much that homosexuality is wrong or anything, that's a small step. It is that people who disagree and say that it is wrong, are being labeled bigots. Even those who believe in the dictionary definition are being labeled bigots even though they may not think that homosexual acts are wrong.

 

So, I see that you are the real bigot that advocate total separation between sects of the humanity. How can we not share belief yet live in harmony together. You should be preaching ideas that bring people together by concentrating on the similarities and abandoning the points of complete differences. In an age when we have so much areas of conflict, the gays top the selfish mountain by decoying humanity from solving real issues and adding one more log to the conflict fire...What should I say, we have no stomach for the gay issue, just like we have no stomach for terrorism, like we have no stomach for wars.....Couldn't that be enough reason for opposing the new gay right movement....We can't chew this gay crap at the moment, it makes us gag, yet you gays are so determinante on shoving it down our throats in the worst time in history.. We should be trying to all agree from some big point of view, not create more liberal rights to separate us further. So you advocate separate bars for gays and straight, separate churches for gays and straight, separate schools for gays and straights, separate civil rules for gays and straights, why don't we just give all the gays one state, let it be North Dakota so they can just do all the crap they want without imposing their beliefs on us or us on them. Gays are the abnormal ones and they need to amend to and sacrifice to belong to society....The society is not the one that needs to sacrifice here.

And please don't say that the gays don't impose their believes on others, becausel the eminent point of gay adoption and parenting is always the next on line after marriage. When that happens, the gay can consider themselves to be not only influencing themselves but entire generations. The gay marriage is the fist domino in a series of dominos that will fall.

 

Well, gay marriages would do one thing. It would show a possibility of love without biological reproduction.

And who needs more kids nowadays? Isn't it crowded enough?

 

"let it be North Dakota"

this part got a good laugh out of me cause my brother just moved from there back to new york. god almighty i hate that place. i vote we send all the religious fundamentalists there.

anyhoo, back on topic. gay people are not being selfish in wanting their own god given natural rights that are allowed to everyone else. they have been mighty patient suffering in the background. now those who are strong enough to come out to society (an estimated small percentage of those who are actually gay) want what is coming to them- nothing more and nothing less than their straight brothers and sisters enjoy. we're not talking special rights here. we're not talking special anything, not separate churches, not separate rights. the very same. gay bars arose because of the straight folk intolerance. the school is controversial and still up in the air. but it was only made to protect children who have a high rate of suicide and of being victims to hate crime violence. tiassa, a bi in our midst, has made a good case against it. gay people only want to enjoy the life they have without being second class citizens. as a woman, i understand how much that sucks.


"feel free to exclude homosexual marriage from the services offered by your church"

actually, like a buttload of churches in nyc perform marriage ceremonies for gay couples, including the notoriously anti-gay catholic and episcopal churches. some even have church groups specifically for gay members. a lot of synogouges do too especially since they officially began recognizing gay marriages a few years ago.

 

You sure as hell should, but you shouldn't have any say at all when it comes to the lives of others.

Well I must admit that I'm very glad that matters of governmental policy aren't in your hands, but you are a member of the same demographic which is responsible for government sponsored discrimination and oppression of homosexuals. Your views run right along the same lines as those who are genuinely keeping me from what is mine. I can't blame you for that, but still here you are saying that in your opinion homosexuals shouldn't have the right to marry, so does it really matter what you have and haven't done? We are mostly talking about abstracts and hypotheticals in here, anyway.

 

If you give a read through the constitution you'll probably get the distinct impression that that simply isn't so. America decided a while back that the majority doesn't have the right to oppress a minority just because it feels like it, we've decided to live up to our vaunted ideal of liberty and justice for all, and we still have some things to accomplish before we can really say that we've been holding true to that.

Homosexuals are every bit as much citizens of this nation as any heterosexual, we are a part of this system called America. This nation, it's government, is supposed to be working for homosexuals every bit as much as heterosexuals, our rights are supposed to be protected to the exact same degree, we are supposed to be equal. Yet still the protection and reorganization of the civil institution of Marriage is guaranteed to one group and not to the other simply because some members of the one feel that the other doesn't deserve it based upon theological grounds. Since when is this justice? Since when is this how America was supposed to Operate? Whether a politician feels some sort of religious resentment toward homosexuals or not is irrelevant, if he was elected by the people then he has been put in office to represent, or serve all of his constituents, and quite frankly that means he should avoid unnecessarily screwing them over.

You'll have to excuse those people who are calling homophobes bigots. It's just that when people start shouting that a generalized other group of people are immoral, or evil, and don't disserve to have the same rights as everyone else, it really does get a little hard to tell who's a bigot and who isn't. I know I can't tell the difference.

In seriousness, though, why not just embrace the term? Bigoted is what best describes your own views on this subject, so why not just admit it, accept it, and start making some nice little rationalizations for it? Remaining in denial can only cause a sharp contradiction in your arguments.

 

Good advice...why don't you take it?

Exacty who are you speaking for when you mention "we" and "us'?

Whoa wait a minute there- Separate churches for gays- WOW- OMG what a "sin"!

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Did you realize there are different denominations ..there are baptists, lutherans, catholics etc.. why should they have separate churches?

I'll have you to know that many of us go to straight bars- there are some bars that are mixed hetero, homo, and bisexual..so what?

All we want are EQUAL rights-

 

Flores: i am putting this one to bed (so to speak)

who/what/where/when and how did you come up with the completely flawed theory that men and women are innately attracted to their opposite? the only difference between me having something hanging between my legs or something shoved up my torso is this dear: an X or a Y and believe me, it is quite a tight race... no one is sure who is going to win until they cross the finish line... everyone is a girl until the (Y) wanker grows anyways, so if you wanna get technical, we are all potentially bi-sexual at the very least anyways... and the only thing that makes me want to fuck the opposite sex is ta-da:

SEX... the moment you puritans take off your heterosexual masks that you hide behind in order to deny your humanity, you will witness for yourself what the human species is really all about... without the contrived society bullshit of a good person = this and a bad = that... sure if you are in it for love, so be it, you get banged with emotion... if you are in it for sex, ditto but minus the emotion... but remember, every action has a reaction and every reaction has a consequence... it goes a little something like this, humans actully require the following to sustain/preserve their life:

1. Air
2. Food
3. Water
4. Sheltar
5. Sex

where in there does it say anything about preferences or choices, marriages, heterosexual, homosexual, being a corporate slut, a war monger, a made for t.v. star or school bus driver?... nowhere... all of the above are fabricated... they are not even part of the human animal's composition... genetic coding if you will... the above (1-5) are the essentials for human life to be not only "livable" and "maintainable" but "sustainable", everything else is pure unadulterated BULLSHIT... your judgement calls and your renditions of what you "think" life is = fake and contrived... as are you and i because we belong to a society that is a complete farce... we seem to think we are something we are not? why? because we are TOLD by society that we are in fact something we are NOT!

and i guarantee you, if you needed your dick sucked or your pussy licked in order to not lose your rational functioning mind (Midnight Train), believe me you would let a dog do it... get out of the middle ages... sex is one thing... love is another... love is fleeting... sex is constant... one is for obvious reasons, more gratifying (love) in the long run... if you find it... and if you do, gimme a call, i too am looking for love (in ALL the wrong places mind you)... sex, i can pretty much find where ever and when ever i want...

granted... sex is empty and plain old yuck if it doesn't mean anything but love is usually so wrapped up in some form of hate (whether it's self-loathing or anti-humanness) anyways you don't really get to feel its true benefits until you're well on your way outta this life... death bed effects don't interest me... i want to live it now...

on another note: to the dude that spoke about his messed up parents hating eachother thus leading to his messed-upness... i hear ya... it's so true it's painful... just because a man and a woman are together does not mean they are going to be good people or parents nor does it dictate how they will edify and behave towards their offspring... being a parent is the hardest endeavor you will ever have, yet because the pay isn't all that good, you can choose... to either give it your 100% or your usual nothing... that is an individual choice, not a sexual orientation one...

you are lucky, at least you have 1 you can look to for hope, i on the other hand DO NOT have a single hetero marriage i can look to for solace in this big ugly twisted world... yet i do have several gay couple friends who believe and practice loving someone for who they are, and not attempting to alter them in any way, they believe it IS THE MOST honourable and sincere way to love another human being...i believe... it IS THE ONLY way... accept this philosophy and be free to live your life the way you choose therefore allowing others to in turn find their true freedom... reject it, and be emprisioned by your own egoism...

men and women who can't accept their inherent differences and love eachother regardless of said differences are the very people who have designed this tortured society, which, we are forced to assimilate into today... marriage at 20? who said this was good and why? gay/hetero marriage? does it make you more of a whole person or less of an empty one? wake-up, it starts with you, and ends with you... that is life... you come in this world alone and you leave alone, everything in between is borrowed...

D