I was offering it as a possible explanation, I only looked for an article when Inzomnia asked for it. Personally, I think it's the most plausible explanation. What is your insight in this matter ? :bugeye: I don't even see how you connect that with what I said.
People are sexually attracted to the same sex because their mother gets stressed in her pregnancy? Yeah, that sounds very plausible. :bugeye: Its based on the same kind of BS. Correlation is not causation. Let me see studies where they have changed the in utero milieu and produced homosexual infants
Are you saying that you don't believe homosexuality has a biological basis, that it's just a matter of choice? Or are you saying that you simply reject that particular theory.
Who is saying anything about stress ? I am not aware of any studies that show these correlations. Link ? Yea right Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! And what is your take on why some people are homosexual ?
I'm saying we don't know enough to be reaching any conclusions. I'm saying the idea of a fixed sexual orientation is ludicrous. Its like saying vegetarianism has a biological basis.
We do? :bugeye: The idea of hetero- or homo- sexuality is a modern western concept. There is no basis for it.
Differences in brain anatomy is pretty compelling evidence, isn't it? And anecdotally, didn't you know any kids that seemed gay from a young age? Why would someone choose to be homosexual, anyway? I believe there's a continuum with most people having a tendency to be strickly heterosexual by nature. Some able to go either way. And a few strickly homosexual. I believe in free will, but for those at either end of the spectrum, it's probably pretty tough to change.
There are some correlations between homosexual attraction in men and having older brothers. There are no statistics. Because it's partly a sociological definition, and variably penalized, denied, sublimated, encouraged, etc, there are unlikely to ever be good statistics. There is a geographical area in the South Pacific with cultures in which oral sex given to an older man is a universal initiation rite for boys - essentially every man would be classified as "gay", by the behavioral US standards. Also a pedophile, most of them. IIRC the custom is dying out. I have no idea how one would go about getting data on the prevalence of homosexuality there. Or in Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, etc, where homosexual unions among teenage boys are extremely common but homosexuality is a serious crime. The biologists' have the final word here, I think. Homosexual behavior is basically universally present among the more intelligent social species of animals, (primates, large birds, dolphins, etc) and appears to be about as common as lefthandedness and similar features. As common as it is, there is almost certainly an evolutionary benefit to it or to something it is inextricably linked with, such as male nurturing of children.
Have they shown that those brain changes are a cause and not a consequence? Do you have atherosclerosis becuase you eat too many burgers or do you eat too many burgers because you have atherosclerosis? These kind of conclusions are very dicey without direct evidence of cause-effect and even then, one should be cautious when dealing with unknown variables. I think social constructs are very powerful determinants of behaviour and over time, can lead to the formation of embedded ideas about behaviour which can be measured by physical changes. But when talking genetics, we're pretty much at sea about basics. We only, as of now, have the ability to measure gross deviations of the norm that express themselves as inherited disorders, everything else is just numbers. And you can get numbers to say just about anything you want them to.
What the fuck is the hostility all about ? Yes we agree about needing more research to be able to reach conclusions about why people are gay. So you deny the existence of homosexuality ? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
No, we do not agree. Vegetarians have longer intestines than nonvegetarians. Clearly, there is a biological basis for vegetarianism. We need to conduct more studies to be able to reach conclusions about why people are vegetarians.
There is no basis for the concept of homosexuality?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Have you discussed this with String? He might be interested to find out about this.
There is no basis for the concept of a discrete hetero- or homo-sexuality. It does not exist in any nonwestern paradigm.
Bisexuality is also a social construct. In the Middle East or the East, sexuality has historically been a fluid concept, as it was in the Romans and Greeks. Hence you find orientalist/indologist literature which talks about sodomites and pederasts when discussing Eastern sexuality. The only Indian document which shows the same tendency towards homophobia is the Manu Smriti. But the Kama Sutra, Mahabharata, Panchatantra deals unambiguously with all aspects of sexuality without hesitation. Before Homosexuality in the Arab-Islamic World, 1500-1800 Attitudes toward homosexuality in the pre-modern Arab-Islamic world are commonly depicted as schizophrenic. On the one hand, Arabic love poetry, biographical works, and bawdy satires suggest that homosexuality was a visible and tolerated part of Arab-Islamic elite culture before the nineteenth century. On the other hand, Islam supposedly considers homosexuality an abomination and prescribes severe punishment for it. In Before Homosexuality in the Arab-Islamic World, 1500-1800, Khaled El-Rouayheb shows that this apparent paradox is based on the anachronistic assumption that homosexuality is a timeless, self-evident fact to which a particular culture reacts with some degree of tolerance or intolerance. Drawing on poetry, belles lettres, biographical literature, medicine, physiognomy, dream interpretation, and Islamic legal, mystical, and homiletic texts, he shows that the culture of the period lacked the concept of homosexuality. Instead, paramount importance was given to distinctions that are not captured by that term-between active and passive sexual roles, between passionate infatuation and lust, and between penetrative and nonpenetrative intercourse. Another interesting book: The Man Who Was a Woman and Other Queer Tales from Hindu Lore Did homosexuality exist in ancient India? The answer in many respects depends on what we mean by homosexuality. Do we limit ourselves only to sexual acts between members of the same sex and leave out romantic affection? Do we distinguish between those men who occasionally have sex with other men but otherwise live heterosexual lives, and those for whom their sexual preference forms the core of their identity? Do we consider same-sex intercourse that occurs in the course of a subterfuge, or as a result of frustration or desperation? And do we include liaisons involving those who consider themselves neither male nor female (for example, hijras)? Definitions are important because 'homosexuality' does not connote the same thing to all people. Besides, the meaning has changed over time. As has the meaning of heterosexuality. Until early 20th century, 'heterosexuality' was used to refer to 'morbid sexual practices' between men and women such as oral and anal intercourse, as opposed to 'normal' procreative sex. The term homosexuality - that is so casually used today and is almost an everyday vocabulary - came into being only in the late 19th century Europe when discussions on the varied expressions of sex and sexuality became acceptable in academic circles. The term was used to describe "morbid sexual passion between members of the same sex." It was declared 'unnatural' by colonial laws, as unnatural as casual sex between men and women that was not aimed at conception. The term homosexuality and the laws prohibiting 'unnatural' sex were imposed across the world through imperial might. Though they exerted a powerful influence on subsequent attitudes, they were neither universal nor timeless. They were - it must be kept in mind - products of minds that were deeply influenced by the 'sex is sin' stance of the Christian Bible. With typical colonial condescension, European definitions, laws, theories and attitudes totally disregarded how similar sexual activity was perceived in other cultures. There never has been across geography or history a standard expression of, or a common attitude towards sexual acts between members of the same sex. Love of a man for a boy was institutionalised in ancient Greece, amongst Samurais in Japan, in certain African as well as Polynesian tribes. Amongst some Native and South American tribes, erotic relationships between men was acceptable so long as one of the partners was 'feminine'. For Arabs, so medieval travellers claim, 'women were for home and hearth, while boys were for pleasure'. These cultures offer no synonym for same-sex intercourse. It was perhaps a practice that did not merit definition, categorization or even condemnation. So long as it did not threaten the dominant heterosexual social construct.
SAM you just crack me up.. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Or.. are you being serious ? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Sam there is a simple question that requires a simple answer. Does homosexuality exist in all cultures and in all geographical areas? The answer by your own evidence is: yes. Does homosexuality exist in animals other than humans? Again the answer is yes. More research would be needed to establish whether there is one overriding factor or a series of contributory factors which lead to an individual being predominantly homosexual. It does appear, however, that nuture is a lesser factor.
Which confirms something we always knew, only men who are gay listen to westlife.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
