The following is admittedly my opinion and I'll probably end up with some critical responses but here goes anyway. The way I percieve gay, is someone that practices sex with someone of the same sex, not just a plutonic relationship. This means that all gay rights activists are pretty much trying to clear with everyone their sexual preference. Now this means that someone who's gay, isn't apart ofa religion or culture, but is just someone into some kinky sex. (well to them it's kinky) Personally I wouldn't want to know if a person was gay, just as much as a person thats into beastiality does funny things with farm animals. (illegal) Now to put Gay and Adoption together, your adding a child to a home with people that have their version of kinky sex. This is possibly where abuse could start, or worse that child could be scared for life with the bullying of other children, and people making hate statements. So you could look at the fact that a gay family is going to cause welfare problems for the child. Personally I'm going to stick to being a Homophobic hetrosexual male.
Hey Stryderunknown ... Thanks for bringing beastiality into the discussion. It's horrible for someone to have to stay in the closet all their lives because the 'good people' can't see the beauty in a meaningful relationship with a cute ewe. Not too long ago the Town Judge had his career, and marriage, destroyed because some well meaning 'do gooder' reported him to the Chief of Police. Imagine everyone's embarassment when it turned out to be a just a jealous tiff! Seems the local Sheriff had his eye on the same ewe! The horrors that unthinking, unfeeling, 'good people' can do. Again, thanks for bringing the problem to light. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
So the moral question is whether it´s right to have children if you believe that it´s not morally wrong to have sex for other purposes than procreation?
This might have been stated already. There are way too many posts too read. In my opinion, it is not "morally" right. If you are going by the Bible, it is a sin. For most non-religious people, it is getting to be more and more accepted. Especially in the US, where there are anti-discrimination laws. As for parental gays.. It will not work. Children need two role models of the opposite sex. A mother and a father. I can not imagine a child growing up normally and as morally "good" with gay parents. It is not the way things are meant to be. You don't see gay animals do you?
Actually, yes, there are gay animals. Just watch discovery channel or punch 'animal homosexuality' into a search engine, and you'll see. By the way, I do consider myself somewhat religious and I got nothing against them and I think gay adoption is morally fine. Its the christians who mistook information from the bible which eventually led to their feelings on homosexuals.
Queer thinking ... Gay sex is kinky? Since when did that happen! I'm not entirely sure that homosexuals think what they do is kinky. Admittedly, it doesn't create human life, but that's not the issue. Or ... is it? I'm fairly certain that heterosexual couples engage in activities that do not lead to procreation in the least. There once was a man named Horatio who was quite the cunning linguist! Oral sex will not make a woman pregnant any more than swallowing an apple seed will cause your stomach to sprout an orchard, yet both heteros and homos engage in this act. It's interesting that there are laws requiring a license for marriage, while there are no laws for creating children. Children grow up in single households all across the country--are they somehow cheated later on in life? Maybe in the 50's the ideal family was the nuclear family, but in that time period it was also ideal to stay with the person you hated because it was socially unacceptable to not do so. Things change (thankfully), and attitudes towards others are modified as well. Blast, this is turning into a soapbox. Just as sex is not (hopefully) the central focus of a relationship, why should it matter what two loving adults do in their own bedroom. It's how they treat and raise the child that matters. You say the kid will get made fun of? Well, that happens because kids are unused to differences in others. Why? Primarily because of the attitudes their parents have towards others. I always wonder why Christians are so against homosexuality. Yeah, yeah, it's an apparent abomination mentioned in the Bible. But isn't it interesting that God was the one that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, not the people that were against it? Besides, think about it. Heterosexuals can still think it's wrong, but it doesn't change the outcome of their personal salvation does it? That way, if it is indeed wrong then God will take care of the situation--no need to get delusions of grandeur and decide to oppose homosexuality because you're pretty sure God is against it. God, who else here had a single parent growing up? I sure did and she did a great job, I feel. Gay, straight, or xenophilic--whatever! As long as they can manage to raise some decent kids, I say let 'em. Thanks! prag
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Personally, I really choose to disregard any moral ties that go along with homosexuality, since I think that while morality is important for what you do, and what you can consciously control, it does not apply to primal urges. The foundation of our morality was formed when life existed on only one plane-the immeadiate, and while those immeadiate morals ring true, squeezing more complicated matters of science that our ancestors couldn't understand onto that same plane should be questioned today. Morality exists on many levels, not just the urgent, black or white, right or wrong that all morality has seemingly always existed on. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I'm only 14 and I came out last year. Certainly, I hope to have children. I wouldn't really be one of those people who say that my homosexuality is the biggest part of my life; I have no larger identity being gay than a heterosexual has being 'straight'. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I could probably be considered a 'far right' conservative; A devout follower of Rush Limbaugh. Yet I'm also an atheist and, of course, gay. So, although morality shouldn't exist tailored to the person (as is deeply explained in the 'Conservatives' forum), It should be encompassing the same levels in everyone; similar to the energy levels in an atom. No one's morals go along with their 'identity', as in their similarity with a larger group, yet should promate morality that is clear with a moral society. In other words, morality cannot be defined from person to person, yet not also from a general consensus. Morality speaks far deeper than law, and your morality is not defined by your conformity, or noncomformity. Morailty is defined as being comfortably ambiguos, yet extreme, on all peoples, all ideas, and all situations. There is no one idea that is always wrong.
Wow. And some of you think that a little thing like homosexuality is perverted. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! After reading this rather exhausting thread, I have a bunch of unrelated thoughts: (1) The traditional definition of marriage involves two people, one man, and one woman. I'm personally in favor of opening that to other two-people (homosexual) unions. This raises the question, Why not open it to multiple person unions (harems, polyandry, etc.)? I don't have a good answer to that, but I am against polygamy. So I guess I am accepting of gay unions but not accepting of sexual communalism. (2) Marriage is currently down on its luck as an institution. Straight people have run like hell from marriage for a few decades now. Pro-marriage people should be throwing their hats in the air at the idea of some new group wanting to get married. Instead, a lot of the pro-marriage people get all upset about gay marriages. Go figure. (3) I think it's critical for kids to have male and female role models when growing up. Gay marriages mean the kid(s) will lack parents of a certain gender. Divorce commonly means the same thing, in practice, and I'm not in favor of banning divorce. If I were in a gay marriage family, I suppose I'd make sure the kids had a lot of quality time with their aunts and uncles (both official and unofficial.) Who sleeps with who is pretty much irrelevant to a child having appropriate role models... after all, plenty of men do the heterosexual thang with the mothers of their children, and wind up being a complete non-entity to their ostensible family. This occurs even in non-divorce families. (4) People who worry that gay couples will turn their adopted children into homosexuals are just projecting. If you're not prepared for your children to be different from you, in sexual orientation as in a hundred other ways, you shouldn't have children. I don't think parents do choose their children's sexual orientations, but clearly, a lot of scared straights think that. Then of course they're shocked and self-blaming when their own kids turn out to be gay. Wouldn't we be better off in two ways if we just accepted that our offspring are going to be what they're going to be? Gay folks have had plenty of experience with hetero culture; while they might be disappointed upon discovering their daughters' sexual indiscretions may result in pregnancy, this just leads to a slightly longer "birds and bees" discussion. (5) Yes, kids with gay parents might get teased at school for it. But their schoolmates will have to get in line behind all the religious, ethnic, and political minorities. Peace.
A few points from one of them I have spent all of my life listening to various opinions of straight people, holding court on what I should and should not be able to do even to the point of whether I should be allowed to live because I am attracted and exclusive to my own sex. In my youth I even spent a period being really pissed off at those heteros who 'gave me permission to exist' by being 'nice' to me. I'm better now. strgrl asked why we have to prance about in parades etc. Imagine having only one day in your year where you were allowed and free to be yourself and have the safety of numbers to do so. And every other day, have to be oppresed by people like you pontificating on our exitance. On that one dayYou'd prance honey !! As to the homophobics of the world I tend to concentrate on the phobia these days and remember that you fear me. Because for the longest time I was forced to fear you. There was also a point made that males were made for females try telling this to all of the species that procreate as individuals without gender. I suppose God just never got round to those. And to all of you above who accept or oppose gay people, please continue to do so in the sound knowledge that what you think doesn't matter one tiny little bit. I and my lover will continue with or without your support. (That's not to say it's unwelcome) And to all of you above who don't give a shit either way ... well done for being so normal. As to gay adoption.. I know that I have a lot of love and knowledge to impart to any child and If our stability and finances can increase the quality of life for a little one with fewer options than me, then I would do so. Why haven't I ? See my thread 'Daddy's little soldier' I'm could never be sure I'd be doing it for the right,selfless reasons. This debate has been fairly interesting just nothing new. Thats the failing of the arguement. In 36 years nothing new. Much love to you all and if I sound like bitter old queen forgive me 99% of days I'm not.
One other small point. Surely it is up to the gay couple (Male or female) to decide whether they have the collective ability to raise a child. These situations are not entered into lightly and are always backed by experts, (Gay and straight I hope!) The child in question would have a far more focused and continually reviewed upbringing than most. It is a good thing that all situations are analyzed in this manner (The forum that is) I think it would be preferable for all if we could do so without baggage. What happened to all those scientific open minds? Double love with chopped nuts and syrup.
AAP endorses gay adoption AAP Endorses Gay Adoption The American Academy of Pediatrics has endorsed adoption by gay couples. Highlights: USA Today did not offer a link to view the AAP release itself. But the AAP website has some good information: * AAP News Release * AAP Policy Statement * AAP Technical Report thanx, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
On that one dayYou'd prance honey !! strgrl asked why we have to prance about in parades etc. Imagine having only one day in your year where you were allowed and free to be yourself and have the safety of numbers to do so. And every other day, have to be oppresed by people like you pontificating on our exitance. bbcboy - First of all I have never ridiculed or oppressed ANYONE in my life. I am a very opened minded person and I dont like people telling me that I have pontificated on their existance. Second of all, If i were wanted to be treated like an equal, then I have to act like an equal. If all you gay people want us to treat you like equally, guess what? You have to act like it. I have nothing against gay people, I have had my own same sex fantasies, so I would be a hypocrite to put gays down. I was just wondering why you guys go apeshit in SF at the parade. God, you dont have to bite my head offPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
*stRgrL* ... Ever think that gays 'go apeshit in SF at the parade' for the same reason straights go apeshit in NO during Mardi Gras? It's FUN! Take care Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Of course! What was I thinking! It is pretty fun, I do it all the time. I just think if someone wants to make a statement, thats not the right way to go about it. But if its all about fun - hey Im with em! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
A matter of standards? What's not? Gay pride parades? Did you ever see what happened at Drumcree in Northern Ireland? And not a lick to do with gays ....Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! But I'm the type of person who looks at a gay pride parade, or a Mardi Gras, or Fremont Solstice Parade and thinks that this is what every day should be like: liquor and dope and sunshine, a corps of naked bicyclists, people showing off what God gave them, as such ... life is too short to be Presbyterian. Er ... okay ... that's a terrible way of putting it. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! But there's a good number of people who know why that's A) funny, and B) not offensive. Those people well understand the benefit of having liquor and naked people running through the streets on a regular basis. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I mean, I think it's a great way to make a statement. Naked people, a party in the street: you have my attention. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! thanx, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! PS ... For those of you who do not understand why the Presbyterian joke is both funny and inoffensive, you have my sincere apologies.
But there's a good number of people who know why that's A) funny, and B) not offensive. Not offensive? Well not to me or you and some people. But I have a question. Do you have children? Because I do, and when I take my daughter (who is 3) to Berkeley or SF, I think it is offensive to have to hide my daughters eyes when a nudist walks by. Hey if you want to be nude and freaky - that is A OK with me, but dont subject my daughter to the sight of you dangling penis or breasts. I think they can run around naked all they want to - in their own homes, or they should designate a national naked day, and Ill know not to take my kid outsidePlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Peace
stRgrL Well, I was just about to spit your head out, because as I saiad I got a little hot myself, and now here ya go again.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Tell me what's so bad in the naked human form, Ok maybe not walking thru a supermarket but why hide the eyes of your child? You do understand that such actions have been proven time and time again to instill fear and insecurity about the human body. If the child sees anyone naked she may question it. And then hey mom, guess what, you get to provide the answer. It's not so bad as you may think. I assume you instil honesty in all other dealings with her and yet you hide her eyes from such an indiginous truth. She has the innocense of her years to accept without question her mothers word. NOw is when it should count. you never know she may grow up without her mothers naivety. Please don't take this as some kind of personal vendetta. It's truly not. I wonder what anyone else thinks about your comments? Oh okay, have your head back anywayPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Ooh, this going to be interesting. Okay, If you had a 13 years old daughter, would you let her walk around naked? Would you let a 40 year old man walk around naked in front of her? Maybe your right about nudity not being that bad, but I was taught it was and I - well I have issuesPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Anyhoo, would that be totally innocent? What about 8 year walking around naked? When everyone else is walking around clothed and my daughter sees a 40 year olds penis, isnt she going to wonder what the hell is going on? I figured it would affect her in a negative way. i could be wrong. Im no genius. And did you call me naive????Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Groove outPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
