How are the red shifts explained between 4 Quasars in close proximity , which have a filament of matter attached to each other . The nucleaus has a red shift of 8700km/s and the other 17000km/s The next two are , HII, have a much higher red shift , 72000km/s and the next , 117000km/s Yet all are connected and have the same spectra Curious
seems to have a pretty thorough analysis. dunno how accurate ... https://arijmaki.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/ngc-7603-the-discordant-redshift-system/
NO , not that I disagree with him. But rather how mainstream explains how all these Quasars are explained , being so close in proximity and there filament of matter flow connection between each Quasar .
https://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0401147v1.pdf The field surrounding NGC 7603: cosmological or non-cosmological redshifts? Abstract. We present new observations of the field surrounding the Seyfert galaxy NGC 7603, where four galaxies with different redshifts—NGC 7603 ( z = 0 .029), NGC 7603B ( z = 0 .057) and two fainter emission line galaxies ( z = 0 .245 and z = 0 .394)—are apparently connected by a narrow filament, leading to a possible case of anomalous redshift. The observations comprise broad and narrow band imaging and intermediate resolution spectroscopy of some of the objects in the field. The new data confirm the redshift of the two emission-line objects found within the filament connecting NGC 7603 and NGC 7603B, and settles their type with better accuracy . Although both objects are point-like in ground based images, using HST archive images we show that the objects have structure with a FWHM=0.3-0.4 arcsec. The photometry in the R-band obtained during three different campaigns spread over two years does not show any signs of variability in these objects above 0 . 3 − 0 .4 mag. All the above information and the relative strength and width of the main spectral lines allow us to classify these as HII galaxies with very vigorous star formation, while the rest of the filament and NGC 7603B lack star formation. We delineate the halo of NGC 7603 out to 26.2 mag/arcsec 2 in the Sloan r band filter and find evidence for strong internal distortions. New narrow emission line galaxies at z=0.246, 0.117 and 0.401 are also found at respectively 0.8, 1.5 and 1.7 arcmin to the West of the filament within the fainter contour of this halo. We have studied the spatial distribution of objects in the field within 1.5 arcmin of NGC 7603. We conclude that the density of QSOs is roughly within the expected value of the limiting magnitude of our observations. However, the configuration of the four galaxies apparently connected by the filament appears highly unusual. The probability of three background galaxies of any type with apparent B-magnitudes up to 16.6, 21.1 and 22.1 (the observed magnitudes, extinction correction included) being randomly projected on the filament 2 L´opez-Corredoira & Guti´errez: NGC 7603 of the fourth galaxy (NGC 7603) is computed resulting ≈ 3 × 10−9 . Furthermore, the possible detection of very vigorous star formation observed in the HII galaxies of the filament would have a low probability if they were background normal-giant galaxies; instead, the intensity of the lines is typical of dwarf HII galaxies. Hence, a set of coincidences with a very low probability would be necessary to explain this as a fortuitous projection of background sources. Several explanations in terms of cosmological or non-cosmological redshifts are discussed. 6. Summary – We present new observations in the field of the Seyfert galaxy NGC 7603. These comprise broad and narrow band imaging, and intermediate resolution spectroscopy of several objects in the field. – We have delineated the halo around NGC 7603 out to the isophote 26.2 mag/arcsec2 in the Sloan r band filter finding several signs of irregularities and asymmetries towards the east. Neither these eastern asymmetries nor the filament towards the east, apparently connecting NGC 7603 and NGC 7603B, can be easily understood in an isolated galaxy, and until now no good candidates of companions on the east side of NGC 7603 with the same redshift have been found. – With improved spectra with respect to those published in Paper I, we have confirmed the redshift of the two objects in the filament connecting NGC 7603 and NGC 7603B and we have observed their Hα lines for the first time. – The better resolution achieved in these new spectra and HST imaging of these objects have allowed their more accurate classification as HII galaxies. We have not detected any signs of variability in these objects at levels ≥ 0.3 − 0.4 mag. We found very strong star formation (or whatever the cause of the high equivalent widths of Hα lines) in both of them and the HST images show some distortions in the shape of both galaxies, which might suggest an interaction with the filament. – We have detected new narrow emission line galaxies at z =0.246, 0.117 and 0.401, 0.8, 1.5, 1.7 minutes to the West of the filament between NGC 7603 and NGC 7603B. The nearly coincidence of the redshifts of two of these objects with the redshifts L´opez-Corredoira & Guti´errez: NGC 7603 29 of the HII galaxies in the filament make us think that they have likely a common interpretation: either objects with z=0.245 and z=0.246 and objects with z =0.394 and z =0.401 belong to the same two groups of galaxies respectively (in a cosmological redshift interpretation) or all of them are ejected by the parent galaxy NGC 7603 (in a non-cosmological redshift interpretation). – The probability of a fortuitous accumulation of objects as bright as NGC 7603, NGC 7603B, and the two objects in the filament has been computed resulting in ∼ 3×10−9 . The (possible, although not sure) detection of vigorous star formation observed in the HII-galaxies of the filament, if confirmed, would have a probability 2 × 10−4 giving a total probability ∼ 6 × 10−13. They look dwarf HII-galaxies (non-cosmological redshift) rather than normal/giant HII-galaxies (cosmological redshift). – An explanation in terms of cosmological redshifts (with or without gravitational lensing, with or without clusters in the line of sight has very low probability although it is not impossible. Alternative explanations have been analysed.
Of course, and its quite rewarding to see you finally be aware of this. While some possible intrinsic anomaly may exist with certain galaxies, they are certainly aware and studying the situation as the paper shows. And of course when aLIGO eventually comes on line again, our eyes should be open even further with more gravitational waves confirmation, along of course with BH's and other stellar remnants. A great time to be alive! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
actually it was nice to see YOU were aware of the problem of NGC- 7603 . well you weren't but now you are .
No, I certainly was aware of it, not that it changes too much. You actually probably just came across it after reading Arp or one of his cronies, and thought it would be nice to insinuate as invalidating redshift: It doesn't. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I mean if you were aware of it previously, you most certainly would have raised it, wouldn't you? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Yet most of Arp's objections to the standard cosmology have been invalidated and explained. The problem of course with this current anomaly is that we have absolutely no known means to explain "intrinsic redshift" Perhaps something to do with lensing by DM? Perhaps there are other explanations, remembering this is 40 years old. What you need to realise is that while gaps do certainly appear in current cosmology, that does not mean we insert any "god of the gaps" or in your case, Plasma/Electric Universe hypothetical: That is long dead and buried. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! The BB/Inflationary theory is still the overwhelming evidenced based model of the evolution of the universe/spacetime. Perhaps rpenner would like to comment on any apparent anomaly that may still exist with NGC 7603.
The following question sent to Professor Geraint Lewis...... '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Hi Professor.... Just me again, with another question. The anomalous redshift readings with NGC 7603......Has there been any recent explanations for the four or so different results? We have this fellow, pushing this anomaly and the “preachings” of Halton Arp as invalidating redshift and cosmological recession along with the Big Bang. Any help or info as usual, will be greatly appreciated. Cheers """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Hi BC – Honestly, nobody really cares about these chance projections – there is a lot of sky and you expect alignments of foreground and background objects. The Arp idea basically comes down to bad (a posteriori – after the fact) statistics. AND – even if quasars were not exhibiting redshifts that were due to the Hubble expansion, this would not detract from the fact that galaxies do follow the Hubble expansion – I am making this point in a book I am writing. Cheers - Geraint Geraint F Lewis, Professor of Astrophysics Sydney Institute for Astronomy School of Physics A28 The University of Sydney NSW 2006 Australia
