Galaxies going faster than light ?

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by river, Sep 10, 2016.

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  1. river

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    On the discovery science channel , that I'm watching now , has shown that galaxies in deep space or something is traveling faster than the speed of light !!!!!!.

    It's on the series NASA’S UNEXPLAINED FILES .

    Any body viewed this. Fascinating.
     
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Galaxies of course are not actually going FTL, rather from our perspective spacetime is expanding at that rate and apparently according to latest findings accelerating in that expansion.
    http://www.universetoday.com/122768/how-are-galaxies-moving-away-faster-than-light/
     
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Just quickly, the universal law that nothing can travel faster than light applies to anything with mass. Spacetime is not applicable in that sense.
     
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  7. river

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    And yet galaxies or something is moving faster than light in deep space .

    We're you able to watch the program ?
     
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure you have misinterpreted it, or the program simply has it wrong.
    Galaxies over larger scales are cosmologically red shifted, due to spacetime expansion and that expansion is accelerating and approaching, and indeed exceeding "c".
     
  9. river

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    Watch the program pad ; don't forget pad ; these people didn't think that that FTL was possible either . It is NASA pad . NASA . Not just any organization. NASA .

    IF you have a problem with this unexplained file from NASA ; I suggest you take it up with them .
     
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing with mass travels at or FTL river: Obviously either you misunderstand or just a case of poor journalism.
     
  11. river

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    So you question NASA .

    Your ego has no bounds .
     
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    No I do not question NASA and I know 100% certain that what you say is not what NASA has or would say.
    Why not research it yourself, on a NASA site for example?
     
  13. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    paddoboy - question; if something were on the "edge of the universe", is it not possible that, as the universe expands, that object (from a literally stationary reference point far away) could be travelling FTL, but from a relative vantage point (within the local cluster) it is travelling sub-light?

    EG, if that region of spacetime itself is expanding away from the center of the universe at, and I'm pulling numbers out of my ass here, 80% the speed of light, and within that "slice" of space, the galaxy is moving towards its edge at 40% the speed of light, from our vantage point, would it not be moving at 120% the speed of light in relation to us?

    Now... I have no qualms admitting that galactic dynamics etc are far beyond my area of expertise, so please pardon me for the all too simplified explanation of what I'm trying to say!

    EDIT - Mod Note:
    I have corrected the spelling of "going" in the thread title... simply because my apparent OCD was not allowing me to let it stay misspelled... go figure

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    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  14. river

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    You're wrong though pad ; get it through your head ; your wrong . Period.

    So let me get this straight. You have not watched the program. So really you have no idea what the show is presenting as fact . The program has NASA SCIENTIST's AS PRESENTERS of this abnormality .

    It is what it is pad; like or not .
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Whatever you say river.
    So mass and us can go faster than light! Wow!!!!

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    The prime postulate of SR is wrong, Wow!

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    Einstein is wrong, Wow!

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    Every physicist/cosmologist over the last 100 years is wrong, Wow!!

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    And you, or the authors of the TV programm you were watching are getting this years Nobel prize for physics, Wow!!

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    You take it easy OK?

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  16. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    The problem is, something with mass travelling FTL violates some pretty basic principles of current physics... thus, it needs some seriously weighty evidence to back it up.

    Do you recall the specific name of the episode?
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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  18. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    *nod* Sounds like I was essentially on the right track then

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  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    And of course this expansion at FTL or in fact this expansion period, is only obvious and evident over the larger universal/spacetime scales, or near the edges of our Hubble volume and observable universe.
    Our own local group of galaxies [M31, M33, our own Milky Way of course and around 30 other galaxies] as well as further afield, are gravitationally bound.
    Explained by the simple fact that the gravity from these relatively denser regions of the universe, overcome the spacetime expansion.
     
  20. river

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    What ever makes you feel more intellectually comfortable pad .
     
  21. river

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    Refer to my post # 1
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Riv, the TV show is just barely scraping the surface of the physics. It is well-known, and is not a mystery or a paradox.

    Einsteinian relativity says that nothing can travel faster than light locally.

    What is happening is that our universe is expanding. The space between gravitationally unbound objects (such as galactic clusters) is increasing.

    Relativity does not forbid this.

    Wiki has a quick primer on superluminal recession:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Yes simply the basic principal according to E=Mc2, that as one moves faster, one gains energy, hence mass.
    Particles that have mass require energy to accelerate them. The closer to "c" a particle moves, the more energy is needed.
    In essence, the faster you go, the heavier you get.
    eg: If one chooses to accelerate a particle to light speed, you would need an infinite amount of energy, due to that particle becoming infinitely heavy.

    The only thing that makes me comfortable is the fact that science explains everything logically according to evidence from the results of experiments and observations.
    BTW, the show you refer to "NASA's Unexplained Files" is not by NASA, but by the Discovery/science channel people and akin to TV shows such as the X-Files, and simply go out of their way to sensationalize, and exaggerate certain supposed happenings by NASA astronauts and space endeavours, that are otherwise explained in more mundane logical reasonings.
    One of their favourite "pastimes" is discussing sightings by astronauts and implying that they are UFO's of the Alien intelligent variety

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    Like I said, similar in content to the X-Files.
    And yes most certainly, you can rest comfortably that whatever episode you were watching, that no galaxy was actually moving at or FTL [Doppler red shifted] but a simple observation of spacetime itself expanding and accelerating in that expansion [cosmological red shift]
     
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