# Fundamental Fundamentalism Part 3

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by KalvinB, Mar 16, 2002.

1. ### KalvinBPublicity WhoreRegistered Senior Member

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I wasn't going to but then what the heck. Here's the final paper on Fundamentalism.

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They will all be dead before it is over. When a nation attacks Muslims it isn't over until the attacker offers peace, as it says in 4:91, "therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority." And again in 8:61, "...if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing." What is missing from the pages of the Koran is any notion of taking the first step towards peace by the Muslims. They will not back down until the unbelievers have offered peace. The Muslims may desire peace as much as anyone else but the last thing they will consider is backing down in order to obtain it. Peace will only come by the unbelievers backing down to them. The only time Muslims are commanded to make peace is when it is two believers fighting as it says in 49:10 "The believers are but brethren, therefore make peace between your brethren and be careful of (your duty to) Allah that mercy may be had on you."

Allah is talking to you. Actually, the prophet is talking to you. Allah never speaks in the first person throughout the Koran. "Thus saith the Lord" appears 415 times in the King James Bible and is only one of several phrases to indicate that God himself is speaking and not a prophet speaking for him. This is significant when looking at the concept of authority. In the Bible, prophets are chosen by God himself to be the authority. It is not a birthright. Even the kings of Israel such as Saul, David and Solomon were chosen by God and not related. Muhammad, who wrote the Koran claimed to have been chosen by God to be a prophet having spoken to Gabriel who is the same angel as from the Bible (The Prophet Muhammad). Since God spoke directly to the prophets in the Bible and not to you, you have no authority. Claiming that the Bible is commanding you to wage war on the unbelievers is much the same as walking in a library, picking up a book on the law and then claiming to be a judge. Knowing what the law is and having the authority to hold it against people are two completely different things. You may know that it is illegal to run a red light and that the fine is $100 but that does not give you the authority to fine people$100 for running a red light.

The prophets were not commanded to wage war on unbelievers. They were commanded to wage war on various cities throughout the Old Testament. There is a very large obvious difference. Claiming that Christians are commanded by God to destroy the wicked is in direct conflict with Hebrews 10:30 which states, "For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people" among other verses which state the same. Christians have never been commanded by God to destroy everyone who does not believe in God. Christians know the law so they know who the wicked are but have never been given authority to do anything about it. Quite simply, Christians are not in charge; God is. That has remained a constant since the Old Testament as is apparent from the fact that the Hebrews verse is a quote from Deuteronomy 32:35.

The significance of Allah not speaking is that instead of God speaking to a prophet thereby giving the prophet authority, the prophet is speaking to you thereby giving you authority. In the Old Testament, the only people who could lead wars were those people chosen directly by God. In the Koran is written, "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Apostle of Allah and the Last of the prophets..." (33:40). If only an authority chosen by God can lead a war and God is no longer choosing people then it is quite obvious that Osama Bin Laden has no authority to do what he is doing. That would be true if we were sticking solely to the Bible. Many modern leaders have no God given authority to do what they do according to the Bible because they have not proven their authority. According to Biblical law, they should be struck dead for putting words in God's mouth (KJV Deuteronomy 18:20).

One of the common accusations from people who think the Bible is responsible for the crusades is that anyone can claim to have authority from God and we cannot say otherwise. Yes, people can claim to have authority from God as many do but we can prove otherwise. There are two simple concepts to prove authority. "Prophesy" and "Fire from Heaven." People who are lying through their teeth about having authority will only prophecy about things that are alleged to happen after they are dead. False prophets who are bolder will prophecy about things that will happen in their lifetime and then when it does not happen, try to come up with some excuse about misunderstanding them. Alternatively, they will be incredibly vague much like a fortuneteller. People who do not know any better cannot tell the difference between a real prophecy and vague hogwash. The most common modern day false prophets are the people who write the horoscopes.

"Fire from heaven" is a miracle performed by an alleged prophet to prove their authority. The only miracle attributed to Muhammad is writing the Koran. Knowing a real miracle from a trick or someone who just was able to do more than you thought they could is a matter of personal standards. When a prophet calls down fire from heaven to burn water soaked rocks it is very difficult for anyone to claim it was not a miracle (KJV 1 Kings 18:22-38). Christ knew the importance of proving his authority through miracles and performed several including feeding 5000 people with a few loaves of bread and some fish (KJV Luke 9:12-17). Those who attended would have a hard time claiming it were a trick unless somehow Jesus could fit an oven under his robe. A common excuse by modern prophets when asked to perform a miracle is that it would be tempting God which is something we are not allowed to do (KJV Deuteronomy 6:16). What people who do not know better, fail to realize is that tempting a prophet is not tempting God. Demanding a prophet prophecy is expected of us (KJV Deuteronomy 18:21). Demanding that they prove their authority is expected of us. If they cannot prove their authority, we have no reason to listen to them (KJV Deuteronomy 18:22). The most obvious check is whether they are speaking contrary to the Bible. Of course, that is subject to interpretation or at least alleged to be. Every modern self-proclaimed prophet has made the accusation that the Bible is flawed. This is convenient when you want people to accept something that the Bible forbids or forbid something that the Bible allows.

The Koran has no such checks in place but since Muhammad is the last prophet according to the Koran then any one who claims to be a prophet is obviously lying (Koran 33:40). Therefore, it is not an issue. The issue is that since the Koran has given authority to you in that you have the law and are authorized to hold it against people, you can claim authority and lead people. That is where Osama comes in. He does not need to prove his authority because the Koran has given it to everyone. Every believer has authority. As, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin said, all you need is a following to have a jihad (The Middle East). Osama's Jihad is a holy war and he has a following so he has authority. All that follow him will be dead before it is over. The US is the unbelieving aggressor, which has attacked them, and until we ask for peace and submit to them, by the Koran they are to continue to try to kill us as the Koran tells them, "when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day-- unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company-- then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be" (8:15-16).

It is not readily apparent what it would mean if the terrorists lost the war as the Koran does not cover that issue directly. If Allah is behind a war there is no chance of losing as the Koran makes clear in chapter 8 verse 66, "...if there are a hundred patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by Allah's permission, and Allah is with the patient." Therefore, if Muslims were to lose a war it would mean that Allah was not supporting them. Osama Bin Laden has convinced quite a number of people that Allah is backing them in the war against the US when understood in the context of their religion, explains quite clearly why they have no fear of death leading them to do things such as fly planes into buildings on suicide missions.

The Bible states that losing a battle is a result of Israel sinning against God (1 Kings 8:33). Leviticus and Deuteronomy are the premier books of law in the Bible containing several hundred laws that the Israelites were expected to uphold. That seems like a lot until you consider that the number of laws in the United States cannot be known but a good guess is around 10,000 though it is probably more than that (Newland). Canada has 90,000 laws governing its citizens (Winterdyk). All it takes to knowing if someone is doing something wrong is to know the law. People tend to quote the Bible saying "thou shalt not judge" failing to quote the rest which states "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again" (KJV Matthew 7:2). Which simply means that you should not judge hypocritically. If you desire to point out that someone has broken the law you should also examine yourself to see if you have broken the law as well and if you have, do not act indignant that someone would point it out to you.

Jerry Falwell became infamous after September 11th stating, "The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this...throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle...all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen'" (qtd. Morons.org)

The most common sin committed by Israelites leading them to be smitten by their enemy is abandoning God; usually by worshipping idols (KJV 2 Kings 21:11). A writer at Morons.org made the comment, "Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but these attacks didn't come from 'God.' These were terrorists. Humans. 'God' had nothing to do with it." If one is going to attack what someone said it is best to understand where they are coming from first. In the Old Testament, the smiting of the believers rarely came from God. It came from people. However, that does not change the fact that it was a result of God setting out to punish his people for their sins. God set up people to attack the rebellious Israelites and destroy them on some occasions. Forgetting God is why they ended up slaves to Pharaoh. Technically Falwell said nothing wrong concerning the idea that God sometimes punishes his people by allowing bad things to happen to them. What is wrong however is Falwell pretending to know the mind of God. Punishing people has never been the only reason God lets bad things happen as is apparent in the story of Job and even Jesus Christ himself to name a couple.

Jerry Falwell in his condemnation of the US shows a common view as Osama Bin Laden who has said, "We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson" (Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders). Both see the US as falling away from God though Osama goes so far as to call us "devil supporters." Both Jerry Falwell and Osama have concluded that the US is full of wicked people but only Osama has taken it upon himself to destroy them or to "teach them a lesson." Which brings into focus why they will all be dead before it is over. If they really believe that we the US are being led by Satan then there is no chance in their minds that they could possibly lose. It is one thing to lose to a bunch of humans that God sent to punish his people with but quite another for God to send the devil himself. Job found out what that was like but survived by keeping his faith in God which is precisely what the Al Queda members are doing except that Job never put together an army to ward off Satan.

Osama Bin Laden has taken on the role of God to smite the United States having been given no real authority to do so. No one in the United States has been given the authority to retaliate because we are not in charge. Anyone who does retaliate having not been given the authority to do so is no worse than those who first attacked. The only people who have the authority to fight back and the authority to give authority to others is the government. If the government does not give you an order to fight, you have no right to do so. They are in charge. You are not. It is the concept of authority to keeps the whole world from going blind. If someone were to poke your eye out, even in the Old Testament you had to take them to court and if they were found guilty, would have their eye poked out. Today instead of having their eye poked out they would be fined several million dollars. Fundamentalists have this idea that if someone pokes their eye out, they can poke the other person's eye out. Worse yet, they pick a relative or friend or someone else to harm to punish the person who harmed them. Soon you have an all out war and it does not end until everyone is blind. That is what happened with Al Queda. The United States had some policies they did not like but instead of being civil about it and taking it up with the government, has attacked the family. Much to their dismay, this family has stuck together and will not fall. The government has no reason to give into the demands of the terrorists and they will all be dead before it is over unless they realize the error of their ways and give up.

2. ### TiassaLet us not launch the boat ...Super Moderator

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30,773
And why not?

193/200 in ENG102? Having read the paper, I still won't argue with the score, and reaffirm my prior remarks of 3/8.

Good show,
Tiassa