Ahh. But where does the fear and hatred of life and self come from? It is not a natural state to exist in. Animals don't suffer insanity the way man does. It is language that allows this solidification of fear. The freezing of guilt. You've said this before. First language. Then guilt. The corruption of the gifts of our ancestors because of our refusal to look upon them in an objective fashion. To realize that the values of the day are just that, of the day. A little altruism is good. Too much and we end up in situations like the middle east where they're sending children to murder themselves. Or like it was in Vietnam. It's funny. Either human life is immensely valuable or it is valueless. It seems that there are few grey areas in peoples ways of looking at it. Wonder why?
I know- only being a smartass. Stoopid metaphor: Freezing of guilt is only possible in the icy, abstract cool of language. You're telling me you actually believe altruism possible?
We understand each other so well! Well, interaction is inevitable, too. Pardon, I meant to speak of establishment of new friendships. That requires time and effort. A lot of time. With age, I have found I have less and less time to habitually interact with a new human. It's not that I don't call people back; they can't reach me! Hm. If I like seeing someone, I can keep doing it. But do I have to? Am I expected to see that person? If a friend is in need, it'd be nice to help out. But, again, must I do that? Even if it goes against some other beliefs of mine? Thing is, nobody HAS to do anything; we may do things because we want one thing or another, we do consider consequences. But I'm not obligated even to live! I can just go to hell this very second, if I want to. People want to do things in a friendship; but they don't HAVE to.
I abhor this. This is where all the obligations come from. Is it possible for one to do something and expect nothing in return from other people? Perhaps patting oneself on the head is enough. How about doing something for no reward at all, only knowing that another person is in need? Is that possible?
Stoopid? Doth she offend me? Or is it like phat? Doesn't seem as though she disagrees... Hmm. /*Edit: Duh! I get it. You were referring to your metaphor. Well, freezing of guilt was yours too. I think. Did you come up with it or did I? I know I came up with at least one coinage in that thread... Can't remember which it was... Regardless. I think this is the first self-disparaging comment I've seen you make. Your ban must have really changed you. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Snap out of it, woman!! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! */ Anyway, this reminds me of an episode of south park where the townsfolk wanted to release a convicted baby-killer from prison so they thought they'd go the governor and cool his hot heart with a cool island song. Or was it thaw his cold heart with a warm island song? The question was theirs, not mine. I'm sure you see what I'm talking about. I'd... like to. But, I subscribe to the belief that there is no truly unselfish act. I didn't mean by my original statement to imply that I did. I should have said reciprocal altruism. And when the psyche is twisted later in social development, reciprocal altruism is capable of greater and greater acts of seeming altruism. Yet, it's still selfish in the end. Our self-image depends on those selfless acts. We could not live with ourselves otherwise. A common argument against this philosophy is in those sudden acts of bravery. The one where thought is not ivolved. "Look," they say, "Look. He leaps into the burning building to save his dog. And afterwards he said he doesn't know why he did it. He didn't even think. An unselfish act. Truly unselfish." The thing about this argument is that it is enacted by the limbic system. It is emotional and tied to highly emotional associations. The body acts as it will and often we must rationalize our own behavior to ourselves. This instance is no different. And it is selfish, the rush of adrenaline and endorphins from the act thrill the body. The chemicals that imbue tragedy and loss spur us on. And, it is still tied into the upper brain functions despite the limbic system base of operations. What can you do? Thus is the social contract. Depends on the level of abstraction, doesn't it? Take the early humans and apes. I've mentioned how those who can't spot cheaters wouldn't succeed as well as those who can. What about those who purposefully don't look for cheaters. That's what someone who expects no return is doing. They are purposefully not looking for cheaters. Evolutionarily speaking, I can't imagine they'd do well. I'm sure you've heard this philosophy before. It's not unique. And it's not even unusual anymore. We have a self-image. If we fail to save the drowning child then we couldn't live with ourselves. There's the payoff. We have moved beyond the instinct for survival. Able to sublimate it. But, if there is a race of martyrs, who will their descendants be? I suppose there must be some individuals who cheat. Who don't martyr themselves. Who play the game and allow others to martyr themselves while the cheaters get the gold. See what I mean? Evolutionarily speaking who wins? The altruistic? The cheater? Or the reciprocally altruistic? In which circumstances does one succeed over another? Which is the best overall for the advancement of the species?
Kshushi tell us more? Why did you ask this? You registered today and asked an abstract question to a group of strangers? Why? Will you tell us what happened in your life to prompt this question? Please tell us the story behind the question of there is one. Thank you.
A small detail that seems a bit overlooked though, is to what degree some people can actually give back in order to keep the relationship running and how much will you are willing to settle with. Sometimes it's very easy to get out of our way for others enough to stop caring about ourselves, and it seems likely that in such moments we begin questioning other's loyalty and wether other people would do the same things we do / did for them. At this point I only know that however this is implemented is completely up to the person in question but the best thing is to know that point where you may give away enough to start letting go of yourself beyond a measure than you can personally handle. This helps you keep a grip on yourself, as other members already metioned.
I have noticed that being somebody's "friend" in the USA corresponds to being somebody's acquaintance in the other countries. being somebody's "acquaintance" in the USA corresponds to being a stranger with name attached to somebody. In two words, an American "friend" would be considered an acquintance in the Russia, for example. If you live in the USA, you sure that person is your friend in more universal (i.e. worldwide) sense?
And we wonder why the divorce rate is so high here... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
dixon: Yes, you guys wish the world could see it your way and the world wishes the US saw it the way the world sees it Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! . I live in Mexico and I cross the border to study in the US everyday so I get to experience the contrast on a daily basis, regarding the differences in the way people interact in one place and the other. Americans are really such nice people but some are back and forth in a strange manner, and for someone from outside it's kind of unsettling to experience disconnectedness all of a sudden...oh well, I'm heading to Arby's now for some lunch...c ya later Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Oh, I'm used to discussion forums, so it's not a problem for me to ask complete strangers on the internet about something Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I was just thinking... Cuz this friend is very supportive, nice and fun, so I feel very happy to have a friend like this, but when I need to repeat something for 5 times, and even rise my voice for her to attend to me when we are among other people, it feels bad. My cusin also said my friend was kind of ignoring her. And she doesn't have hearing problem. So I feel bother very accepted and ignored at different times when I'm with her, which is confusing.
You think so ? I think it depends more on the way a person was brought up than on where s/he lives. Although expectations and closeness between friends may vary within cultures, everybody needs appraisal and support from others to some degree. Do you have any expectations from your friends?
I don't expect anything from anyone, because everyone lets you down at some point. It's much easier to be glad when they do nice things, then it is to want or expect them to do good things. I have very few friends, and quite a few acquaintances. Perhaps your friend isn't trying to ignore you, but paying attention to someone else. The same kind of attention that you like from her.
I'm obligated to spend time with friends and family. I'm also obligated to spend time on Sciforums and other forums. What have I gotten myself into?
I just think there has to be a boundary: you shouldn't be a slave to a friendship, but you also can't be totally free. You can't have both. Friendship is a gift, and it needs to be nurtured. You ca' tjust say anything that comes to your mind to your friend, cuz sometimes this might be offending...
I fucked over a friend yesterday just because he expected something from me, and I was loyal to another friend, which forced me to disappoint the other guy. C'est la vie you might say. But it sucks. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't better to just lie in bed and don't do anything. You can't get into trouble that way. The other problem is that I don't feel guilty about it. I have been fucked over so many times during the past year that my personality is changing.
Uh huh huh!! Actually, it would, in cetain circumstances, be an act of inconsistency if you would kill yourself if you don't get Reznor. Namely, you may not get him today, and not tomorrow -- but how long will you wait? Until your n-th birthday? According to logic, you'd have to wait until either of you dies. Will you wait that long? You just want something you can never have ...
EXACTLY!! So painfully true. I am from Slovenia, Europe, and I had many American "friends", who were to me, mere acquaintances. I was baffled by the amount of compliments and promises they gave me. I had a hard time understanding of how that came to be, and what I must had missed. Later on, I figured that I had missed nothing, it iwas just that those people had very big and very empty mouths. The way they threw around with "friend" just prostituted that word, and put a very bad light on human relationships in general. Being called a "friend" *should* mean something -- it should be reserved for a person who is dear to you and whom you have an active relationship with.
Friends are a strange lot indeed. They can alter ones perception of right and wrong, they can adjust your mood to be good or bad. Like those we are close to, they can forever change our attitude towards the rest of the world either good or bad. They contribute to our well being, or lack thereof. Friendship is important to our development as a member of society, but can also be detrimental to it. The point of all this; choose your friends well, toss out the bad ones and surround yourself with people who are good and kind. It will make your life easier, and theirs too. There is definately a difference between friends and acquaintences. A lot of people that I consider acquaintences consider me a friend. A good rule of thumb for me, is to ask myself whether or not I would miss that person if they were not around for a few days. If the answer is no, it's an acquaintence. If the answer is yes, you might have a friend. But it's also important to ask yourself whether or not you feel good and safe with that friend or not, if not then you might want to cut your ties. I have 3-4 close friends, and I cherish them deeply and spend as much time with them as I can.
