Freedom of Speech and Maturity

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by wellwisher, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    Any posts following the first are not pertinent to the lie your supporting. And I did. Unlike you I'm not to lazy to research and liar. You just another immature whiny right wing asshat who can't stand he can't get away with treating people like dirt anymore. So whine and lie away I'll continue to laugh at you like the joke you are
     
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  3. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    lol Like reading the first page/chapter of a book and deciding the rest isnt pertinent to the story. Okey Dokey.
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Baby girls get ready: This is the textbook of love ...
    (... get that funky beat, and don't ask.)

    It seems to me that if I want to know how a woman feels about something, I ought to ask a woman.

    Maybe I ought to be asking more men what women think?

    Would you care to be more specific, a phrase here intended to mean less useless?
     
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  7. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    Are you just naturally this dishonestly stupid or did you work at it? that is not at all a proper analogy and if that is indictive of your intellect i worry for you. no what your doing is being asked to discuss chapter one and whinying about other chapters. i get your a conservative and therefore intellectually handicapped but still there are certain standards you should still be able to reach. and being able to understand talking about a specific incident means other points in time are irrelevant is one of them.
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    The whole point, PJ, is to obfuscate. I really do think it's a neurotic complex, because behaving this way deliberately would eventually drive a person insane.

    But think about it for a minute. By turning this discussion personal, these people distract from their own losing cause. I mean, honestly, were there ever worse spokespeople at the nexus of free speech and maturity of intellect, emotion, and psyche, than Wellwisher, Tali, and Milkweed?

    This particular variant is the latest iteration of the dusty bigot's creed that only a intolerant bigot won't tolerate intolerance and bigotry. White supremacism. Christian supremacism. Male supremacism. The pattern emerges again and again; in the States we have that saying, that the Constitution is not a suicide pact. More generally, civilized society is not a suicide pact, yet that's all these people want. Civilization is, by design, bigoted against incivility; so many societal problems arise from our desire to hold out against this reality, and if in the end the goal is simply to be not as uncivilized as the next person, the whole thing really is a joke.

    These people reject basic civility; civilization can only be civilized if we advocate and protect incivility.

    I don't think the satisfaction we might find in scorching this stupidity is any more useful than screaming at a rock for being dead. To the one, 'tis true; if they were actually able to comprehend, why would they listen to this manner of retort? Say what you want of chicken and egg, but the question remains. To the other, 'tis true; if they were able to comprehend, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    At some point, this behavior is indicative of dysfunction; we must begin to consider disability accommodation. After all, even the most superficial and simplistic trolling, such as Milkweed puts on, gets a long pass before the staff because, you know, who are they to say what's really going on? Part of the reason people like Milkweed get to carry on this way is a traditional disability accommodation: These are not capable of behaving any better, therefore we should bend over backwards in order to give them a chance to be useful in the discourse.

    And it nearly made sense ten years ago.

    Nearly.

    But over that time we've also seen plenty of evidence that it's simply deliberate accommodation of bigotry, and nobody really can figure out why.

    But this behavior is just really weird; it shows consistent characteristics of bigotry and deliberate sloth, yet we are expected to ignore these aspects. Remember, Milkweed isn't obliged by any rules of Sciforums, customs of decency, or demands of reality, to actually pay attention to what she writes from post to post.

    My recommendations are: (1) Stop trying to follow what isn't supposed to be followed; (2) accept the inevitable reality that there is only so much to be gained from engaging these people at all, and start flipping coins from there. As I noted before↑, their reward is you giving them the time of day.
     
  9. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    Well lets start with reinforcing the fact (you seem to be unable to retain), I am a woman. But you dont like what this particular woman thinks because it conflicts with what you WANT women to think. Maybe not full blown misogyny but none-the-less.... you are still struggling internally (and externally).

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/what-is-rape-culture.153010/page-22#post-3343986

    You are in no position to determine the psychology of anyone on this forum.

    And you forget this any time someone disagrees with you.

    You should read the Atlantic article I linked to earlier. Your making yourself even more unstable. And its self inflicted.

    One of the best things I did for myself was reject the meme "all men are potential rapists". They are not. No more changing my patterns based on who was doing the same thing I wanted to, when I was alone. No more jumping back cuz some guy saw me loading a 50 lb bag of dog food into my car and wanted to help. And every time something turned out OK (and it did) it reinforced the real fact, most men are not rapists. Self determined cognitive therapy and I didnt even know it! I figured it out for myself! Cuz I'm so fucking stoopid to have left the pack meme and ventured off on my own path...

    Now I'm gonna step out on a limb a bit, hoping no one recognizes me.

    You wonder why I, an impressionable child, had a homosexual family friend talking about what the word faggot meant to him, back in the early 70s (reality my whole life)? Has it ever crossed your closed little mind that it was because of a homosexual FAMILY member bringing these many homosexual people around me, a fucking kid, because my parents were such HOMOPHOBES that they KNEW gay people couldnt be trusted around children.

    Would you like to hear the stories of how drug dealers wouldnt sell me a bag of weed cuz, upon hearing my name during the standard introduction, hey this is my buddy ____ shes cool... getting told, You cant be here, I dont need 30 lesbians giving me shit everytime I go to the club.... Protecting me.... the adopted niece... I had LOTS of aunties, and a few uncles who had no blood/marriage connection... lol... Then I was stuck trying to figure out how to Not Break the rule, You Dont Out Anyone, while in the car, with the friends who were rightly curious Wanting to know more.... You know gay people?? Who? I havent ever met any gay people what are they like... Oblivious to the fact the goddamn drug dealer THEY brought me to was gay... BUT I kept the rule! I worked my way around their questions without Outing Anyone!!

    You and bells are absolutely wrong promoting the bullshit you do. There is no rape culture. The word Faggot does not drive hatred, banning the confederate flag only hides the opinion from plain view, and labeling every touch, every unwanted/unsolicited word as some kind of sexual assault removes a majority of people from supporting the effort to reduce victimization of people. Real, harsh, physical victimization. And I, rightly so, will ridicule your vain (cuz its all about YOU) attempts to become the liberal version of a neo-con. No, really, no, seriously, no, really, I, mean.

    Side Note: Take that to the Backroom Bells.
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well unless the Lord created some special kind of physics for so called conservatives, the horse does come before the horse.
     
  11. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    So do you think you actually made a point? congratulations on having a vagina but that doesn't mean your incapable of being antiwomen. just look at carly fiorina. i mean seriously this is a sexist view point right here. that your female only makes your completely tone deaf attitude worse not better because you should fucking know better.






    more right wing whiny bs



    Just going to ignore this ranting

    no they aren't.
    yes there is. i know i'm a victim of it. So why don't you shut the hell up about something your privilaged little self knows fuck all about.
    yes it does
    which is the point having out in the open encourages people to those beliefs. its why the internet has been such a boon to hate
    a strawman lie from a rightwinger who would have thunk it.
    thats so cute. don't pretend your standing up for victims you don't give to shits in the winds for the victims this is about pushing your anti women anti sexual assualt victim ideology. and before you fucking whine about that, I AM A SURVIVOR OF SEXUAL ASSUALT. You don't speak for me for us. you are a silly little child attacking real victims attacking what we went through. I have had enough of your bullshit and i intend to hear no more. you haven't the right to criticize them. So do us all a favor and save us from that drivel you think is a point and shut the hell up on a topic your ignorant on and mock. What i went through is clearly a fucking joke to you its not to me. it only recently i have managed to deal with it. and since you seem to well be an idiot let me make it nice and big so you understand


    YOU DON"T SPEAK FOR US

    so no you don't get to ridicule those people standing up for those like me to make yourself feel better about yourself because your such a small minded bigot. All your doing is minimizing what people like me went through and its not fucking ok. So grow up and start learning to help people instead of hurting them.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, God forbid you should ever have to face fact and reason...best to hide in some Republican echo chamber.
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    This point is irrelevant.

    You complained that I'm taking input from women's writing. What, am I supposed to ask men what women think? Or are you the only woman I'm allowed to ask?

    Actually, I would like you to start making sense. For instance, if you argue, " Most men are not rapists and I dont support portraying them that way i.e. rape culture and I will ridicule attempts made to do so", it doesn't make any sense to compare male sexual belligerence to a chimp humping a frog↗ and justify yourself by explaining that it is "Something we all have in common"↗.

    When you set up a straw man of indicting all men, and then turn around and indict all men, it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman insofar as stupid is as stupid does.

    So you're identifying as transgender, now, too?

    If rejecting your own straw man is the best thing you ever did for yourself, we might be even more useful to your own self by not burying the best thing you ever did by arguing against rape culture by suggesting masculine evolutionary disposition to animalistic sexual violence.

    Honestly, you're not risking much of anything by failing to make any sense whatsoever.

    Becausee your sob story would be of some use if (A) it made sense, and (B) wasn't offered up as some excuse for your advocacy of hatred and harm.

    I agree the straw man you invented in order to reject and then support doesn't exist.

    And this is your stupid hate advocacy.

    Words like faggot and nigger don't drive hatred, they are manifestations of hatred.

    Why do you advocate victimization?

    Your rape advocacy is disgusting, Milkweed. No, really. You are a rape advocate. No, seriously. A fucking rape advocate. No, really. I mean, you are a fucking useless rape advocate.

    And if you aren't intellectually, emotionally, or psychologically secure enough to deal with the fact that you, Milkweed, are a rape advocate, that's your own fucking problem and you really shouldn't be going out of your way to make it anyone else's.
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    He isn't struggling.

    What makes this rant of yours interesting, in a blood curdling way, is that you seem to believe that he is struggling and because of that, he should be mocked, abused and harassed because of it. This is what makes your position and argument here even more troublesome and vile.

    Yay for taking things out of context and misrepresenting what he said. This isn't new, I suppose, you have been doing this for a while now. But in your case, you are using this misrepresentation to attack someone as being "gender confused". If Tiassa were "gender confused" (whatever the hell that even means), if anyone is, as you put it, "gender confused", it means that you are deliberately going out of your way to bully them because of it. I can only hope that some of the homosexual friends you claim to have are not transsexual, because having someone like you around would not only be toxic, but attitudes like yours are known to drive people, especially transsexual children, to suicide.

    You may be a woman, but you are in no position to determine if anyone is "gender confused". And as a member here, you are not allowed to bully or harass anyone here because of their sexuality. Hiding behind your sex will not protect you.

    Just because you are a woman does not mean you speak for all women.

    No one has to agree with you, me or anyone else. I certainly do not speak for all women and I never made that claim. You seem to believe that because you are a woman, you can make such determinations about other people, even to the point of making statements and attacking people because of their sexuality.

    The only person who keeps making this claim is you.

    No one has said that all men are potential rapists.

    What is worse, is that based on your own invention, you have argued and diminished the rape culture others have experienced. You are free to believe as you wish. But do not make the mistake of assuming that because you are a woman who does not believe what you invented for yourself, that you speak for all women. I too am a woman and you certainly do not speak for me in any way, shape or form. I have experienced rape culture, in the worst possible way. I know it exists because I lived it and continue to live it. Your personal invented arguments do not represent my experiences, nor do you.

    Why? Are you ashamed?

    I am trying to understand what you are even on about now...

    Are you aware that this little rant just makes it seem as though you don't like homosexuals and that you find the idea of homosexuals being around children, to be a negative? Are you aware that this is how this is coming across?

    Oooookay..?

    You are entitled to your opinion. You aren't that important to me, nor are your inventions. What is important to me is that you seem to believe that your sex and your whatever it is you have going on, gives you the right to bully people here because of their sexuality. You don't. And if you keep doing it, then I will keep moderating you for it.

    Congratulations. You have clearly never experienced it. I can avidly hope that you never do, because I would not wish it on my worst enemy. But you do not speak for others and what they have experienced. There is no rape culture for you and that is wonderful. Perhaps you managed to live in a bubble for the entirety of your life. But you have not lived my life or that of others, you have not experienced what I have experienced in my life, ergo, you do not get to make that statement for me or others.

    Just because there is no rape culture for you because you have never experienced it, does not apply to every other person on this planet. Because others have experienced it and continue to do so on a daily basis.

    No word drives anything. The word "faggot", like the word "nigger", stems from hatred. Their use is to remind people of that hatred and all that followed it. Do you understand what that means?

    No one has done this. Well, you have because this is what you invented. But no one else has actually done this or labeled all unwanted touching or words spoken as being sexual assault or sexual harassment.

    You mean like when you consistently bullied and harassed gays on this site because you think they are "gender confused"?

    For someone who declares they are speaking up for people who have faced real physical victimisation, you forget that you have consistently bullied and harassed others because of their sexuality on this site. Just as you seem to ignore the fact that you are actually speaking to some people who have faced this "real physical victimisation" and some are victims of sexual assault and rape. Your behaviour is what has increased the victimisation and contributed to it, not reduced it. Frankly, reading through your posts and from some of the other members here, takes me back to my actual rape and the attitude that I endured after it. I withdrew from that discussion because, in all honesty, if I want to relive my rape and the rape culture I endured after it, I can simply close my eyes. I don't need to be constantly reminded of that attitude that drove what happened to me by participating in that kind of discussion with you and others like you.

    You don't reduce the victimisation. What you are doing is ridiculing and abusing people because they have been victimised. Why? Because it does not fit the narrative of your strawman. Which is what makes your attitude toxic.

    If I wish to discuss the rape culture I have experienced, that is my prerogative. Your strawman is not going to erase it. All your strawman does is bring it all back in the worst way imaginable. Certainly, you might claim it is a victory that you have silenced people from speaking out because they don't want to relive their "real physical victimisation" by having to put up with your strawman argument, but it isn't a victory. It just kind of makes you a bit of a pariah.

    The only person you are ridiculing here is yourself.

    I think your rant speaks for itself.
     
  15. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    If you dont like what I have to say, I believe there is a setting where you can block my posts. Feel free to ignore me.
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Pages and pages, multiple threads, multiple direct corrections and responses, and people are still confused about this "potential rapist" concept as it operates in US culture. Cultural conditioning is a hard thing to shake, but this is just one step - and a necessary one, for the maturity mourned in the OP. Slow, or stubborn?
     
  17. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    The voice of reason.
     
  18. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    The Republican war against intellectual honesty and scholarship. When I was a young man, idealist, I thought education would take humans to a better place. Read to much Heinlein. Not really. Thanks for making sense and sharing your scholarship.
     
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    • No flame wars, please.
    whats wrong too fucking chicken shit to attack a sexual assualt victim to their face. you want to run your worthless mouth off about shit you don't under stand you have to deal with the consequences. I get that your coward who doesn't want to face the repercussion of your moronic positions but guess what you ran your mouth off to the wrong person. i won't let you run.

    So answer some questions for me princess
    When i'm told that my attack was just a joke tell me how the fuck is that not rape culture?
    When I'm told that I need to let it go how the fuck is that not rape culture?
    When i'm told I'm over reacting for being upset about it how the fuck is that not rape culture?
    When i tell people what happened to me and they laugh in my face how is that not rape culture?
    When 3 guys larger and stronger than me pin me done and try and shove a broomstick up my ass because they think it be fun how the fuck is that not rape culture?
    When you dishonestly attack people who argue i should feel safe to talk about what happened to me and that i should have been listened to how the fuck is that not rape culture? How the fuck is that not forcing me to relive my honest to god real victimization?

    You are a spoiled self-entitled asshat who thinks you have a right to attack and demean real victims because their experiences don't match up with your prejudices. Your a coward a low life who attacks the weak and than wants to run when faced with some willing to stand up to you. You think you can bully me and other like me. you can ignore me all you fucking want but i don't get the luxury of ignoring you because if not you there always another asshole who will mock and attack what happened to me. every time i run into some like you there a choice, let some selfish prick like you make me a victim again or to stand up for whats right and heal.
     
  20. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    This forum runs rampid with self serving intellectual dishonesty. It's a place for ignorant cranks to run their mouth. Waxing philosophical about the negative contributions of cranks also runs rampid in this forum. It reminds me of the Republican Presidential Candidate debates.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Rampant maybe?
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Think of it this way, PJ: You're on the wrong track. That pain you feel trying to deal with Milkweed? It's what she wants.

    That is to say, hers is a losing hand, and she knows it, so instead of folding or betting strategically, she's trying to get other players to ignore the game.

    Where do you think those stories about evil liberals being intolerant of others' arguments come from? They never say, "So I insulted this dude and you should have seen him go off!" Rather, they bawl, "They won't even talk about issues! They just get mad if you say anything at all!"

    The thing is that it's not impossible to find someone who meets their fantasy, but those people aren't as common as they want to believe. They are sick of constantly losing arguments, so they just make shit up.

    Notice that she's not actually defending rape culture per se, but fending off her own straw man and insulting people. How long can any of these discussions go on before a Milkweed or Tali wants to make it all about them? The point is to get people to stop talking about the issue.

    Because if people keep talking about it, they not only lose the argument, but others can combat rape more successfully, and that, it would seem, is unacceptable to Milkweed.
     
  23. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    If you choose not to use the ignore feature, then its your own fault if my words bug you. Kinda like tv when you find programming offensive. Turn the channel.

    Click your user name (while logged in) to get to your preferences.
    Near the bottom of the list on the left side (under tab labeled Your Account), scroll down below Settings to the link titled:
    People You Ignore - Click
    Page opens and you just enter my nick

    milkweed

    Save changes.

    Hope that helps!
     

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