Free energy

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by crazeeeeeem, Apr 29, 2007.

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  1. Blue_UK Drifting Mind Valued Senior Member

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    with reference to information propagating faster than the speed of light:

    I once heard that entangled particles share certain properties - although I'm not sure that it can be used as a communications medium. Other than that - I don't think propagation speed can exceed light speed
     
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  3. ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

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    im fairly sure i know the method.
    and
    im fairly sure scientists of certain levels are aware of it
    HOW it works and WHY it works and does not work is something they will be puzzling over.
    for the right price i would help them work it out hahahahaha
     
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  5. Klippymitch Thinker Registered Senior Member

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    If you made made different models of units to fit the power needs of one household or Kilowatts usage per month. Sell them for $5,000+ a pop and people will buy them like hot cakes. Eventually the power plants are forced to shut down and eventually everyone is on cheap, clean, free and self-independent energy.

    Unless you were trying to say the government doesn't want this to happen because they will lose a lot of money. And they don't know what they would do to make up for the loss?
     
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  7. ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

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    C. all of the above
    not only the government who may be swayed to be the first country to do it,
    BUT think of all those evil people who have interests in oil...
    the world is not yet good enough to be saved wholesale.
     
  8. andbna Registered Senior Member

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    No information can be transmitted through an entagled system in such a way that it travells faster than light.


    And concerning the oppression of free energy, ripleofdeath: back up your claims, because I disagree:
    I can go pull water out of the river for free, but you notice how water infrastructure is still making profit? Sure an oil company might not want a better energy source, but that wont stop a competitor for funding reaserch in that area.
    Govornments supressing better energy sources? If a country could devellop something that remarkable, they would become the superpower rather quikly; the technology would be worth quite a bit itself, not to mention it would allow an industrialized country to turn out goods much more efficiantly, and thereby increasing profit tremendously. Lost money from oil taxes would not even scratch the gains.

    -Andrew
     
  9. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    All the above except the grammar is a nonsense. Disprove the theory on my blog. I will regurgitate it here for your convenience:

    PROOF
    -----
    A circle of a given circumference has a relationship to its radius in the following way:

    C = circumference of a circle

    C = PI x D
    D = diameter
    Π = Constant approx 3.1415.....

    Angular frequency is the number of times something goes around a circle.

    One revolution of a circle is equal to 2Π radians.

    Hence
    ω = 2Π / T = 2Π f = V / r

    ω = angular frequency or angular speed
    T = Period of revolution or time in seconds of a revolution
    f = frequency (Hz) (cycles per second)
    V = tangential velocity around center of circle(m/s)
    r = radius of a circle

    Should you have a circle of radius A and an electromagnetic wave traveling on the outer rim of that circle, part of the wave or the magnetic field is actually traveling faster than light.

    Imagine a superconductor ring with a circumference of C and radius R. If the magnetic wave is measurable above the ring at some radius (R + r'), where r' is positive, than the wave must have been measured at 2 x П x (R+r') = C' where circumference C' is greater than circumference C ie. C' > C.

    Example:
    -------
    Assume a magnetic wave at the surface of a superconductor ring is traveling at a velocity of 90% the speed of light. The speed of light is about 300 million meters per second and 90% of the speed of light is 270 million meters per second. If the wave can be measured at a distance of 130% the radius of that ring, than it is moving faster than light.

    Since angular velocity is

    ω = 2Π / T = 2Π f = V / r

    The angular velocity for all parts of the wave is the same. From the equation above the relationship between velocity of the wave at the base and at the top and their radii is

    Vtop / (R + r) = Vbase / R
    Vtop = Tangential velocity at top of wave
    Vbase = Tangential velocity at base of wave
    R = radius of circle at base of ring
    r = radius of ring at top of wave

    This means that
    Vtop = Vbase x (R+r) / R
    = 270 million m/s x 130 /100
    = 351 million m/s
    = 117% the speed of light
     
  10. andbna Registered Senior Member

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    And in a similar fashion, if I spin in a circle, I can say the moon is travelling faster than light speed, following the rules of relativity (my reference frame is statioary, everyone elses is moving extremely fast) However, this does not violate Relativity's rule that information cannot travell faster than light, anymore than your example does.

    Your proof has a critical flaw: You assume the wave can measured instantaniously the wave 1.3*the radius away (or any arbitrary distance away). By what methode do you sudjest this is possible, because it is here that the real FTL communication is happening? Of course, the best way we have to measure the wave at the super conductor at a distance is by firing some photons from our pulse to the reciever. Sadly, this will take time to travell, and will mean FTL is not happening, and by sending some information through the superconductor, we will be going slower than the light speed we can already communicate at.
    Sorry, but your proof fails, unless you can tell me how we can measure instantaniously at a distance... in which case you can just abandon the superconductor and use that methode alone.

    -Andrew
     
  11. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    All the above is including the grammar is nonsense. I think magnetism is measured by induction.
     
  12. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    No, it's your muddled thinking that's sheer nonsense. In addition to your other obvious blunders, your assumption that the wave can travel around the ring at 90% c is also nonsense - approximately 67% is the FASTEST it can go! That's the limit on the moving current which is producing the moving wave. (Don't even know your very basic physics, do you?)

    Yes, magnetism is measured by induction - so what? It can only be detected at the speed of light anyway. No point in that silly business, either. :bugeye:
     
  13. andbna Registered Senior Member

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    316
    I disagree, and I am quite sure most readers will; I assume they have a mild understanding of physics of course. As for your grammer: it is not top notch either, for instance; your scentance would indacte that my above post is preforming the action: "includng the grammar," which of course makes the final part: "is nonesense," completely nonsensical. Perhaps you should have added some commas?

    I happen to know most things are measured inductivly. Perhaps you are reffering to the fact that I can detect a magnet from a distance away from it? If so, have you ever heard of the Photon?
    Its the subatomic particle responsible for conveying the electromagnetic force. It, naturaly, travells at c in a vacuum.
    This means you have to tack on it's travelling time in your speed calculations, which you did not. Thus it looked like he information would travell faster than c because you stopped timing part of the trip. If I timed a car trip from Maxico to Texas, but didnt time it the rest of the way to Canada, I too would calculate a speed faster than c, but this is my error, not proof of FTL cars.

    Rather than do pure arithmatic, I will use a diagram to show why your experimental information transmission will infact go slower than c.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Now, the light blue represents a point on the superconducting ring which wishes to send information to the dark blue point. Using your methode, the information will travell (represented by the green line) around the superconductor, at less than the speed of c. Once it reches the 12 o'clock position in this diagram, the information is converted to a series of photons which travel to a reciever at the dark blue point. This is your electromagnetic induction, it travells at c accross the gap.

    My methode is called radio communication, and it sends a series of photons directly from our light blue to the dark blue point, traveling at c, represented by the red line.
    even sssuming your superconductor can transfer energy at c (really fast.) your methode is clearly longer than my methode, since your information's route is longer (has to travell around the superconductor, rather than taking a straight line to the destination as mine does.)
    Furthuremore, the fact that your methode will be travelling actualy at less than c for a part of the trip, it's even more slow.

    So congradulations, you have invented an expensive way of sending information more slowly.

    -Andrew
     
  14. Rickjames Registered Member

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    Ummmm how about no? Try the second law of thermodynamics....lol
     
  15. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    Errr..come again?
     
  16. andbna Registered Senior Member

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    -James Carter, Rush Hour.
     
  17. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    The FTL model I presented was to be imagined in a two dimensional world ie. the path that light had to follow was around the superconductor ring (or any ring for that matter).

    However as fortune would bestow, there is a three dimensional model (based on the same diagram) that says faster than light as well.

    Would you care to discuss this?
     
  18. andbna Registered Senior Member

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    2 Dimensions does not restrict light to following a superconducting ring, my diagram is in 2D and clearly demonstrates this. You can extend the model to 3D, or heck any dimension, but a line is always the shortest distance between 2 points, and since your communication methodes themselves don't travell FTL (ie electricity) your superconducting detour is of no value.

    What is there to discuss? You still have not demonstrated a shred of proof for FTL travell.

    -Andrew
     
  19. Klippymitch Thinker Registered Senior Member

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    Wait a minute let me get this straight.

    So your using light to go faster than light?
     
  20. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    How? ie. what is the mechanism. The superconductor is still a superconductor I hope. I mean, just a small point but if this is the case, shoudnt the superconductor also loose its energy to its environment (which it doesnt).

    More importantly why did the people paying the person that stabbed me jump over such a simple model?

    Strangeness.
     
  21. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    No not true
     
  22. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

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    Wait a mo...still looking for an appropriate model to prove this.
     
  23. kevinalm Registered Senior Member

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    Absolutely true. As soon as you allow current to flow in the pickup loop, the pickup loop developes its own time variant magnetic field. This field in turn (and of geometric necessity) couples back through the superconductive loop generating a back EMF which acts like a resistance, damping the pulse.
     
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