Fraggle:Conduct Unbecoming

Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by Gustav, Nov 22, 2011.

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  1. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Ah, but that was Quads attempt at humor, but then you used his one suggested method as a means to disagree with Fraggle when in fact Fraggle made no such list or advanced a suggested methodology.
     
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  3. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    And you think that Fraggle's suggested methodology - "rid of them all" - is humane, actionable and viable?
     
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  5. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Since I don't buy Gustav's accusation that genocide was implied and thus take it that "Rid of them all" refers to religious institutions, then YES it is humane, actionable and over a span of time, viable.
     
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  7. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    On board with that, yeah.
    Basically, a mod should not attack someone in a way a member would be reprimanded or banned for.
    Because there is no mechanism to reprimand a mod.
    Maybe there should be?

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    Thanks.
     
  8. Gustav Banned Banned

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    fraggle
    could you elaborate on the bit about "Sam's people"? it sounds rather interesting. what are her views? who are her people and what are their views?


    while i naturally disagree with that assessment

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    )) i have no cause to dispute the ban as it is a clear violation for the rules as i understand it. too bad my bans are anything but, eh?

    that bit is quite the milestone for sci if i am not mistaken. not too shabby.
    i do agree that demotion is a better option but bureaucratic inertia will ensure that you will drag your feet in making that decision. unless faced with something that is really egregious, i doubt very much you will demod anyone just for insults. you will find excuses. i mean, you cannot even bring yourself to warn frag. all you do is chummily advice against "naughty" language

    we need a level playing field. members and mods have to abide by the same rules and penalties and i am pleased that you agree.

    give frag a warning via an infraction
    it is the right thing to do

    he can then really go on a whine binge about how he is the only one here that cares about science and scholarship

    /snicker
     
  9. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    how do you know there isn't?
    james could very well be chewing frags ass in the "super secret mod forum".
     
  10. Gustav Banned Banned

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    damn, i heard rumors about the empty space b/w your ears..........

    chewing ass pales in comparison to the infraction cycle
    if only we were afforded such largesse
    besides, frag should know better

    /smirk
     
  11. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    Erm...
    SAM wouldn't consider Indonesian Muslims to be her people I don't think.
    Nor would SAM consider Saudi Arabians to be her people. Not the same ethnic group, culture, branch of Islam...

    Hmm, as a fully ethnically mixed honkey mutt, can I said to have "a people?" Do white people have a people?
    Are we then responsible for what those people who only share skin color with us and little else do? Am I responsible for that white racist nutter in Norway, Breivik, who went on a mass-murder spree?
    Is having a people reserved only for nonwhites?

    Anyway...
    *stops clubbing horse carcass and sits down again*
     
  12. Bells Staff Member

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    Ugh.. Fine! Ruin all my fun.:bawl:

    Sorry GeoffP for calling you an 'asshole' and a 'dick' and using Fraggle's standard of "context".

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    Was all in good fun to prove a point.

    I'll cop the warning and infraction for it. In short, I'll own up to it.
     
  13. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Sam is probably very upset that all this trouble has occurred.
    And a bit embarrassed that she has become the centre of attention.
    She's very shy, you know.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2011
  14. Gustav Banned Banned

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    funny how you mods are afforded the opportunity to apologize by virtue of the fact that you lot are not immediately banned.

    if only such magnanimity were showered on the community

    of course it is not that i think the illustration of a point should be a worthy of an infraction. it is an acceptable rhetorical device
     
  15. Gustav Banned Banned

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    no
    carry on with the role play
    frag is only good for polemical screeds so someone has to step up to the plate
     
  16. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    yeah, it's a real shame we can't all be a genius, just like you.
    yes, frag SHOULD know better.
    have you ever heard of a period? you know, one of these things>. ?
     
  17. Gustav Banned Banned

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    redundant if a line break is utilized instead
     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps such leniency would be shown to members if it were thought that such leniency would be used TO apologize (sincerely) rather than simply ignoring the infraction outright... but then again, we know some people cannot admit when they are wrong or have wronged another. Such is humanity - we view ourselves in an idolized status and weigh our own actions with a different set of virtues than we do others, trying to "explain" and "justify" our wrongdoings while "villain-izing" others... ah the human syndrome... such an incredible disability we all share... :shrug:
     
  19. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Fraggle didn't suggest a "methodology." He simply described his ideal end-state: an absence of (fundie, Abrahamic) religion. He said nothing at all about how such should, or could, be accomplished. All of the accusations of genocidal or repressive "methods" are 100% inventions of detractors that have been shamelessly shoe-horned into his mouth. I congratulate him on refusing to legitimate such by responding.
     
  20. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Why not?

    ? Doesn't seem to stop her from speaking for them, with some regularity.

    S.A.M. is also in the habit of speaking for "Asians," "the East," and other such ill-defined, continent-spanning groups. And of course, Indians.

    Except when she doesn't want to be accountable for something that one of those groups has said or done. Then she's just a free-floating individual with no connection to anyone, and anyway whatever example is in question is necessarily prejudicially, intentionally misrepresentative of those identity groups to begin with.

    Of course.

    And anyway, you can definitely expect antagonists here to assign you to any particular "people" that is rhetorically convenient to them at any given moment.

    We wouldn't call them "white people" if they didn't.

    The standard at SciForums is that you are responsible for any features of any identity group that you can be even tangentially tied to, when I want to use such to call you a hypocrit, imperialist, moron, barbarian, etc. I, on the other hand, am not answerable for anyone but myself, unless of course I want to invoke such a standing to better beat you over the head. I hope that clear this up.

    In the case that you undermine any of my rhetoric in any way, I will equate you with the very worst cherry-picked example from the West. To the extent that you express any disagreement with that, I'll call you a hypocrit.

    In the case that you ask me to answer for anything I advocate, or even just relate my suggestions back to the actual issues, then I have nothing to do with anyone and you are a bigot for addressing me in those terms.

    Easy enough, right?

    I'm just not seeing where you got that implication from, at all.
     
  21. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    In short...

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    Flame first, and flame hard as it will keep your opponent on defensive?
    *pulls up asbestos underoos*
    I don't like that.

    Well, there's nothing quaint and ethnic that I do, the religion I have is far from mainstream and not a giant influence in my life.
    I don't really consider myself to have "a people." As opposed to, you know, just people.

    I was just thinking...SAM probably has an extended family that she would consider her people, and that might be it...or maybe the rest of intellectual Bombaiya...not caste,as she's Muslim...and them I looked at myself and thought..."MY people???" I don't often think of myself as having some sort of ethnic identity. It's just an odd thought, I have various European countries my genes have come out of but I'm not really excited about that...I may be related to the Hapsburgs (considering how nutty and inbred they all were-well...).
    Anyway...
    I wondered how many anglos would be startled to hear other whites referred to as "your people." And at what point does skin color stop being a consideration? A Cossack has a pale complexion, but shares no common ethnic and cultural background with me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2011
  22. Gustav Banned Banned

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    hi i am fraggle and i am here to discuss getting rid of your religion

    so give me a methodology where you leave an individual belief system intact while simultaneously getting rid of its support system. are you also burning bibles in the process? do you envision a resistance? when you reply to this are you presuming to speak for frag (chuckle)

    nor have i noticed any overt pronouncement. it is just that frag does not consider the implications of his desired state of affairs

    i suppose...
    ....i say! wtf!! i hope that off world gulag is sans ovens

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  23. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    You could put it that way. But it's more about building self-serving justifications to allow yourself to flame others, and reject their responses.

    Yeah, it's pretty crap. But, that's the set of incentives that have been cultivated here...

    Do you have a nationality? A political affiliation/orientation? A sexual orientation? A love of video games or sports or learning? There are plenty of identity groups available, besides the racial ones.

    The relevant "people" seems to be "Muslims" and/or "Asians" and/or "Indians." In the sense that she exhibits feelings of responsibility and standing to address critiques of those groups.

    In the USA, we have a word for that ethnicity. It's "white."

    Notice how you're writing your posts in a European language? And probably wear clothes, listen to music, read books, and eat food all dervied primarily from European cultural traditions? And are, probably, immediately differentiable, by sight alone, from people who hale from Africa, East Asia, etc.? That's "ethnic identity."

    Depends on the context. If some German is calling Cossacks "your people," I'm going to look at him like he's crazy. If some African is talking in terms of "white people" to include all Europeans, white Americans/Canadians/Australians/etc., then it's no mystery at all.

    Also, it doesn't really prove much of anything about white identity to note that most individuals from outside of, say, Russia and the Ukraine, don't have a particularly strong lineage back to some minor, fringe group on the opposite end of the white world.
     
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