For Christians to answer

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by battig1370, Mar 25, 2009.

  1. battig1370 Registered Senior Member

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    374
    Jesus foretold that He will sit on the throne when He returns, but yet most Christians do not know or do not believe that 'Him who sits on the throne' in 'The Revelation' is Jesus. Why?

    In Matt.19:28, Jesus foretold the event in Rev. 6:15 -16 + chapter 7, and that the Son of Man (Jesus) would be the One who sits on the throne in the days of 'The Revelation'. ---> "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, --- He will sit on the throne of His glory. Matt. 25:31 <---> When the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, ---" > Matt. 19:28.

    Written in John 17:5 Jesus' prayer was granted, ["O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was."], because Jesus overcame ("I have overcome the world" > John 16:33) by doing the will of His Father, and as result Jesus became worthy TO RECEIVE glory and honor and power ----" < Rev. 4:11 > “You are worthy, O Lord, TO RECEIVE glory and honor and power ----" Because Jesus was glorified together with the Father, Jesus RECEIVED His New Name which is the I am, the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Jesus is Lord God Almighty who sits on the throne in Revelation 4:2, 4:9, 5:1, 5:7, 5:13, 6:16, 7:10, 21:5, and 21:22.

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" --- and the Word became flesh/human and dwelt among us " > John 1:1-14
    After Jesus overcame He RECEIVED ALL authority and ALL things in heaven and on earth. > Matt. 28:18,
    Jesus said, "ALL things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that he will take of Mine and declare it to you" > John 16:15

    'The Revelation' is about the time of Jesus' return, but Jesus will not return "until you say, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord" as written in Matt 23:39 + Luke 13:35.

    Jesus foretold that it will be Him who sits on the throne when He returns as written in Rev. 6:16. Why has this part of Jesus' testimony not been taught to Christians around the world.?
     
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  3. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    So you would think he would use words more effectively, rather than the confusing mess we are left to interpret.
     
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  5. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    and of course i will ask: which word?
     
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  7. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    Spider, you know those aren't really God's words! He prefers to have mankind write them down so they can take the blame for bad interpretation, but not really. Does that make more sense?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  8. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    The topic says For Christians. So I will attempt to answer from my year-ago perspective. I've never had any doubt that the Bible meant Jesus was sitting on the throne in reference to the passages you gave. I've never known any Christian that would dispute these.
     
  9. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Om!?

    jan.
     
  10. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    does that bring you peace? (resonating)

    me not the hmming type unless perhaps elevator music sometimes sticks in my head and i will hmm the tune while walking thru a store/mall.

    I was asking about 'which word' is supposed to be the last word, according to the thread.

    I don't see an 's' to make it plural as well a book in not the 'word' but a whole bunch of them.
     
  11. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    Christian teaching is that the Word was with God and the Word was God. I don't understand what the nature of your question is. Jesus is the Lamb of God and the one who sits of the throne is God the Father. Jesus and God the Father are One.

    Revelations reveal

    Revelation 5
    1 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.
    4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. 5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”
    6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain
    , having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

    Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

    When the New Jerusalem comes down to us the book of Revelation says about the throne that will be within it.


    Revelation 22

    And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.

    So the throne is Both the throne of the Father and of the Son for these two are one.


    But once again i find it odd that you are posing this question? I am not sure what your getting at. One of the central teachings of Christianity is that God and Jesus are one, your interpetation of the book of revelation seems to be confirming that position. So why ask the question as if it does not????


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  12. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Bishadi,

    That's not the point.

    The sound vibration (word) is the process of creating forms.
    Here is an example of how sound (mundane) effects upon particles;
    jan.
     
  13. Will.T Registered Member

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    45
    I agree that Jesus is one with God. And in the Bible it says when Jesus went back into heaven he went to sat at the right hand of the one who sent Him. And the One who sent Him was the Father, God almighty . Lets not complicate the Bible when it is easy to understand. Just thought I'd throw that in.
     
  14. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    53,966
    Maybe people don't get it because Jesus never wrote Revelations. He actually said that the Kingdom you seek is all around you, only we do not recognize it. That means the throne is already occupied. Probably by you. Jesus was far more poetic than people give him credit. The scriptures aren't one-sided, it's a participatory effort, you have to meet them halfway, to read between the lines. Zen masters know this, and seldom refer to things directly, but use metaphor. It's up to the student to meditate on the question, and come at it from unexpected angles, without predetermined expectations.
     
  15. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    4,207
    Which god?

    Which bible?

    Which Jesus?
     
  16. Will.T Registered Member

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    45
    The Holy Bible, I've learned to stay close to it because of it's sanctification. Holy is a seal of approval in a sense. It Let's me know that it hasn't been touched by mans opinions and Gods word still hasn't been tampered with. But that is a lesson in itself. There is one God. The Holy Bible shows you evidence of how another god is the fake. Satan is real good at building other religions and sort of barrowing ideas from the one true God to do it. That is one reason why satan is known as an angel of light. He has the ability to create heavens , religions, kindoms, and to much to name. He does all this to mislead people to their own destruction. It's kind of like watching a movie if you don't pay attention you miss part of the movie. It is the same with the Bible you have to pay close attention or satan will come and still your hope from you. He has all kinds of tricks. And I serve one Jesus as well as I do one God. Although, there will be many who claim to be the christ or have already made that claim. Jesus spoke about it in the book of Matthew. There are also many ways for us as the elect to distinquish the difference in the real Christ and a fake. That's also another lesson in itself.
     
  17. Woody Musical Creationist Registered Senior Member

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    2,419
    These are your issues as an atheist.

    Was the thread titled "for atheists to answer" as though an atheist opinion was invited? :shrug:
     
  18. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    Sorry, but the OP of a thread doesn't get to decide who posts and doesn't. While he's free to prefer one demographic over another, this isn't a soapbox for religious believers to preach and evangelize. So criticism and inquiry is both expected and appropriate.
     
  19. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    4,207
    I'm not. Now answer the questions:

    Which god?

    Which bible?

    Which Jesus?
     
  20. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Tell us something we don't know.
     
  21. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: From an astro-theological point of view, this passage refers to the rising and setting of the sun (god). The rising of the sun (son) in the East symbolizes the sun is setting on the horizon which is the left hand of god. The setting of the sun (god) in the West symbolizes god perched on the horizon or "at the right of god."

    There is nothing magickal about religion. The ancients were simply star-gazing.
     
  22. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    3,452
    Wow! This normal religious introspection, considered to be rational, logical, reasonable & most of all verifiably knowable by theists worldwide.

    I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I get emotional when a fellow human being casts their brain into the dumpster of religion. Sniff....
     
  23. Woody Musical Creationist Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,419
    Christians worship a Triune Godhead

    Since you asked, here is the definition :

    The Christian doctrine of the Trinity teaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.The doctrine states that God is the Triune God, existing as three persons, or in the Greek hypostases, but one being. Each of the persons is understood as having the one identical essence or nature, not merely similar natures. Since the beginning of the third century the doctrine of the Trinity has been stated as "the one God exists in three Persons and one substance, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."Trinitarianism, belief in the Trinity, is a mark of Oriental and Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism and all the mainstream traditions arising from the Protestant Reformation, such as Anglicanism, Lutheranism and Presbyterianism. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church describes the Trinity as "the central dogma of Christian theology".

    Hence all Christians believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as three co-equivalent manifestations of ONE GOD. You will surely disagree with it from your own position as an atheist, but NO Christian disagrees with it. The Christian G_d is defined, and there really is no argument about the definition which covers ALL denominations and their common belief on who G_d is.

    Since you asked, the Christian Bible is composed of the Old Testament and the New Testament.

    The Old Testament of the Christian Bible is based on the Jewish sciptures called the Tanakh. It is written in Hebrew. It has been well preserved through the many thousands of hand copies handed down in the BCE centuries (prior to printing presses), but it has a few known errors such as no entry for the alphabet letter "nun" in Psalm 119 which has been recovered and transliterated. The Tanakh was finalized between 200 BCE and 200 CE.

    There is much hot debate between Christian and Jewish scholars regarding the interpretation of the "Messianic verses" contained in the Old Testament such as Isaiah 53. Both positions have Hebrew language experts with PHDs that are equally qualified to interpret the verses:

    Uri Yoseph Speaks for the Orthodox Jewish position regarding Objections to Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. Ironically some of the same things you hear on this forum about the "sun god", "pagan sacrifice", "Babylonian myths", etc. etc., are a cut-and-paste from Uri's script for all practical purposes. Uri is an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi.

    Dr. Brown speaks for the Messianic Jewish position regarding Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah

    Both positions agree with the concept of a Messiah, but disagree regarding Jesus of Nazereth (Y'shua ben Joseph).

    New Testament:

    There are two primary canonizations of the New Testament:

    Catholic Canonization -- Codex Vaticanus

    Protestant Canonization - Textus Receptus

    The differences are discussed in the links, but as stated before, both groups agree 100% with the Trinity doctrine, and the death burial and resurrection of Jesus of Nazereth (Y'shua ben Joseph)


    Jesus of Nazereth also know as "Y'shua ben Joseph"

    The different Messiahs have been catalogued in the Jewish Encyclopedia:

    Christians believe Jesus of Nazereth was Messiah ben Jospeph (the suffereing Messiah) at the first coming. Christians also believe Jesus will be Messiah ben David (the king) at the second coming. Jews only believe in Messiah ben David (the king).

    You can debate the origins all you want, but the definitions of the Messiah aren't debatable. Jews and Christians both agree on Messiah ben David. Jews agree that Jesus of Nazereth existed, but was not the Messiah.
     

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