The annoyance factor Hmmmmmm. The basics of life. The herd instinct if you will. From food gathering and hunting era no less. Easier to survive in a group than as an individual. To be thrown out of the group is tantamount to an execution sentence unless the ostracized can find another group to become a member. Behavior ingrained into the brain, as a survival factor. Now modern human doesn’t quite know what to do with this old relic. It just doesn’t fit anymore. A driver with no recognizable survival trait left. So do we outlaw public gatherings of more than, say 5 people? Or, stigmatize a certain behavior as barbaric throwback and penalize anyone who displays what ever it is we’re against? Hitler had some ideas on that subject. He called them Jews. If there is a group who gathers because it sees this subject one way, there will be another who doesn’t agree and will see it another, making their own group. Sex, the drive to spread one’s seed, or to reproduce and continue the race. Another basic drive of all life. Has no meaning other than continuation of that life’s form. And we spend a large amount of time preoccupied with the seeking of this goal. Especially as we first mature into adult. Grateful I am that birth control was developed or we might be knee deep in our neighbor’s family by turning around where we stand. Food? Necessary to continue life. Pleasure by another name. Americans enjoy more than they need as seen by the over weight epidemic evident throughout the society. The guns blazing statement draws fire from much the same mentality. The stranger is threatening the security of the tribe. Only the tribe ain’t there anymore. But the individual still hackles and draws up to protect it. Out moded responses still with us. And yes, there will be that one who doesn’t quite fit the mold. I believe that was referred to as the idiot. The one who wants to be the leader of his own little group, who would like to start with the conversion of his immediate circle. Much to the annoyance of that circle.
The manipulation factor You defined very well the human animal and the roots of human impulse. A curious thought is to explore the possibilities had those impulses been absent from our nature. The energy which those impulses invoke has, I believe, produced our evolution. I also believe that, as a whole, the idiots are becoming wiser. Maybe in the distant future there will be no need for manipulation of small and large groups, and maybe leaders will become obsolete. In the distant future...maybe. There is a hilltop near here which I often visit. It offers a vista of my city below. My local group seems very small from that vantage. If I could speak to all of it, what might I say... Hmm.
Another hillside I think to explore the lack of these factors would not be an ends to a means. After all, they are survival factors. And the opposite of survival….well you get my drift. So in that sense, yes, they have certainly affected our evolution. We’re the most dominant species on earth. The largest, most effective, impulse has been the flight or fight reaction. Proven over and over to have survival traits. I’m not too sure I agree with the idiots getting wiser. Maybe better educated, but not wiser. Look to any group and you still see the same things going on. …and not necessarily isolated to any one group. We still steal, kill, rape and pillage, though it had any number of names and labels to put on it. If you raise the standards of the group then idiots still shake out on the bottom of the curve. We now have another hillside to look from afar. Though not as many people visit it. Its called LEO (low earth orbit) and the sights are supposed to be fantastic.
approved parenting is the only answer! why should it be the rite of someone to ill raise a child? and pervert there mind and make another problem for the universe? if someone wants to have children they should have to go to parent school!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you cant get a job picking up rubbish these days without a degree(euthinisism) so why is the most important job of all time...BEing A PARENT not have any compulsory training and more importantly guidence? compulsory birth control should be a BIG issue ! BUT how can rich people [in there own tribe] have slaves if there are not mentaly perverted children from subjegative enviroments being pumped out like a commodity????????????????????????????????????? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! thoughts? groove on all
The owners manual It has been long noted that one of the most important functions in our lives does not come with a how to guide or an owner’s manual. Bringing up children. How sad. Getting all to attend such is a problem. Unless the laws of nature can be revoked to say No school, then no sex, no baby, no opposite sex then all will be just rhetoric.
hey wet1 Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! im not sure i follow the coarse of your thought my thought would be no opersite sex, no sex, no babby, no school...? but this seems a little ??????????????????? ummmm fatal-istic...? are you saying you think we cant or are you saying you think it is a big problem that may be solvable? ? i must admit im a bit of a fatal optermist in somethings yet i state (to my self) sometimes that i belive there is no hope for some people.....? what an internal conflict... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! i also have a 'current' opinion that we have alot of people with very inferior minds/genetic(maybe small and inconcequential in a perfect enviroment) make-up! my CURRENT opinion... i re-iterate! ...or more precisely the fight to maintain and gain inspite of anyone or thing may be soo strong that it overides the personal development of those who are predisposed to such(certain) primative instincts. one of my main passions in life is to study the psychological reasoning of the human race... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! and in doing so i have come to quite a few conclusions which do sound very extreem to alot of people.....! it also mannafests in alot of personal conflict which i have worked on for years and are only now (at the age of 30) starting to get to grips with.... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! and i would... at this point in my life and travels...say... that most people desire to "get along" with all others, BUT they have a resasoning and self protective code of proceedure... THIS CAN BE ALTERD it requires very intense understanding of the situation as it stands rather than an understanding of (taught) psychology. a behnevolent dictator is the only way to advance in an expediant manner. BUT we need a HIGHLY ETHERCAL "hit squad" that can purge the tarnished few that hold such power and would rather die than disseminate it. these people are very dangerouse and too most succesful intelegent people. i would... however feel GREAT pitty for those with the task to terminate them because i think taking a life is something to be avoided at "most" costs, but unfortunatly there are many who will perform any killing for low cost Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! what a tangled web has been woven! continuetive question.... if by genetic manipulation we could alter the "spider/fish/lizzard/bird/human/...?" to only eat vegetables should we do it? this questions a base core of principals that few "TRIBES" have been able to comprehend and follow with any level of consideration... (in what limited history) of some cultures i know of . enough for now Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! groove on all peace...love...and missery to all greed merchants.
Reality check I think that in reality, I’d have to come down on the side of we won’t. Doesn’t take a lot to make babies. Just a partner and a little time. To alter the course of nature human at least would require more than I think we will be willing to do. To get along is to me a goal that is highly admirable. Takes years in some cases to even develop the knack ability and desire. More power to you!
cheers Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! i feel compelled to warn the emotionaly tetering (that might visit this thread) that you should not try this unless you have a strong hold on your own character...cos it is more likely to conclude that one should join the week and as they say "go with the flow"..."muck in"... "get back down to earth"... "stop fantasising"..."get real"..."get a grip"... "wake up"..."get a life"..."dont be soo paranoid"... and all the other statements that are used to outcast the person that might confront the power crazzed idiots that want you to be a "monkey see-monkey-do" ITS NOT THAT WE 'ARE'... AS MUCH AS WHAT WE "are CAPABLE OF"! SSssiigghhh. groove on all Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Good point. Afraid I'm just as guilty as the next in the unguarded and frivolous use of some of those adjectives. It is not that I want agitation, it’s that I don’t always engage brain before mouth starts running. Soooo…down the line someone will think I’m purposefully being mean or insensitive to his or her feelings. In this you definitely have a point! As is said, Don’t try this a home! More than not in some of these discussions is the need to have an opinion rather than to be scientifically accurate. To be steady in those opinions as opposed to changing and being wishy-washy as the winds blow. Yes, I know this is a science forum so it is not to be ignored. I've have been called to task for those things what were not accurate. But I'm not a scientist. I have neither the background nor the education. You work with what you have. Now, back to the thread. I don't think that it is we're not capable of these changes. I think that we simply won't make them. It is more important to the third world farmer to have children who can help him in the field than it is to not have kids so as to not muck up the enviroment. If you can't afford a tractor, you do with what you have.
yo wet1 Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! by no means was i implying you in the dont try this at home thought! i did get your point about your thoughts and just thought i would try and cover an angle i had only just thought of Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! i think we all do things from time to time that contradict our own belife systems...in small ways as such and so the nessecity to say "im sorry i was wrong" is one missed by the major offenders i think... sometimes it has taken me a day or two to get back inline but i always(now) try to make it known that i belive i 'was' wrong... maybe i should start a new thread called : should i say "im sorry"... yes a bit cheeky but you gotta wonder sometimes Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! groove on all
Intelligence and the survival factor ripleofdeath …nor did I take it as such. Still the words said have the same power of meaning. Nor does an admission of ones’ character alter by what someone else thinks or does not think. As to contradiction, happens all the time. To some more than others, as personalities differ, which leads to some being more, shall we say, stable and enduring in their thoughts and actions. It seems the longer I stay in this thread, the farther I wander from the topic. Not that I’m against wandering but instead the mind does not continually focus upon the point. Anyway, While it may be possible for us to alter our view of what should be after all this time of living because it has shown the human animal that this is the way to live and continue as successful species it is doubtful in my line of thought that such would ever become a line of practiced behavior. Any species who tried such without long and careful deliberation upon the consequences of such acts would soon find that the very acts that led it to overcome could be bred out of the race and hence lead to its demise. Not a desirable survival trait for intelligence to fool with.
Gathering "But you recognize how people gather in groups? Like-minded in their opinions and customs, people form common bonds, and the individual often seeks approval by participating and by conforming to the expectations of the tribe." Bowser, Do you not think too that people gather in groups to survive? Just think of the old war vet.s whose fondest memories are the battles they, and those who they bonded with under fire, shared. Often the only commonality, the only `like-mindedness' if you will, is the situation they have found themselves in by the randomness of the fates - and survived.
<i>"Do you not think too that people gather in groups to survive? Just think of the old war vet.s whose fondest memories are the battles they, and those who they bonded with under fire, shared. Often the only commonality, the only `like-mindedness' if you will, is the situation they have found themselves in by the randomness of the fates - and survived."</i> I think you have something there, but that only explains the survival mode during times of danger. What of those who are under no threat, but comform to group expectations nonetheless?
Just a thought ... Might not that be a part of the current problem, Bowser? A sort of free-floating anger for which there is no hook, no survival need to help dissapate it? A road-rage, prejudice, we-them, 'Kill them all and let God sort it out' mentality that is the antithesis of the tribal cohesion?
just a thought the tribe can operate on a democratic bassis but one person may feel they want to override the group law or beliefe so that one goes and trys to make there own group through a lack of ability to communicate or because of the groups inability to comunicate effectively. all diversions are a form of sickness which is mearly reinforced by like sufering people or groups. we are only now touching on thetrue nature of mental ilnes and with it comes the reality that most have one sort or another. now we can treat these conditions it is no longer ness to kill or outcast the opposition to the group consensus regardles of which beliefe carrys more trueth or promis. just a little thought Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! groove on all tribe ------ an intellegent form of advancement through interactive co-operation to achive greater goals for one and all!
Re:all I have read most of the posts on this thread and I am sorry to say that I am above all disapointed... and worse saddened by your words. If there was absoultly no reason to be here then I think that we would not exsist at all. Everyone is here for a purpose... and if you don't belive that, then I feel sorry for you all. We have just chosen not to listen to it because it would be to hard or would be too much work. When you say that there is nothing to live for or accomplish that we are here by nature or by mistake or, that we are just animals or we are here for our own enjoyment that just wrong. I refuse to belive it, I won't belive it! Everyone of you have a purpose, big or small you have a destiny, but I belive that you have a hold of your destiny. We as humans a an advantage over all other spiecies on the planet. We have selfcontrol, we are given choices and the outcome of those choices could change the world! If you don't belive me that is fine, but I tell you the truth that people thought Albert Einstien was retarded and was not very popular in his day... but now he is seen as one of the most intelligent man to this date! Now we may all not be as smart as him but we ALL have the power to change the world.. the choice is up to the people that are still here. Religious or Not we all are a part of a changing world that can not exsist with out us or other spicies on this planet. The end is only near if we say it is...!!! NEVER GIVE UP... NEVER SURRENDER...er in the words of Tim Allen.. I am sorry I don't mean to preach... but I am very passionate about this subject..as you can see.. Peace all Sethmac
<b>Chagur</b> <i>"A sort of free-floating anger for which there is no hook..."</i> Don't you mean <i><b>"...for which there is no release."</i></b> As I see it, a civilized world doesn't provide any chew-toys for the animals in the yard, with the exception of sporting events and wars. <b>ripleofdeath</b> <i>"we are only now touching on thetrue nature of mental ilnes and with it comes the reality that most have one sort or another."</i> I would rather believe that <b>all of us are crazy.</b>
<b> Sethmac,</b> Well, the world is a lonely place when life's only purpose is to eat, sleep and make babies. I'm with you, however. there is the larger life.
seth/bowser so tell me how to stop the noise so i can hear the message? seriousely! no bull shit! state a beliefe/concept/principal/method of practice. T.M sindi? T.M golf? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!(jkg) put something out there if not just for me then everyone. if you say "go to church and prey" i will go to the shops and buy a dozen beers get very drunk and laugh at you for a few hours untill i start crying/ or pass out. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! # im not trying to be smart or rude! im being seriouse about the give some advice thing.-(if you dont know...thats cool, no probs) groove on all
