Fluoride in our water , a good thing ?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by river, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. river

    From what I understand its not a good thing

    Oral seems to be fine , but to be ingested is an entirely different thing
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  3. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    I don't know.
    But why put it in the water, which is mass medication,
    rather than insist that it it is put into toothpaste?

    If it is mass medication,
    perhaps that is a good thing,
    but when did we vote for it?

    I will follow this thread with interest.
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  5. river

    I didn't know either , I was listening to Red Ice Radio about this topic

    Here is a site to start

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  7. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    It's good for teeth, especially for those poor people who don't have dental care. It's also harmless in the concentration found in public water.
  8. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Some water is naturally fluoridated. And from what I have seen, there is nothing wrong with fluoridating the water supply. If a family exercises good oral hygiene then fluoridation is not as important. Fluoridation becomes important when people do not practice good oral hygiene. And there are many families and individuals in our society that do not practice good oral hygiene. Mine was one of them. I didn’t see a dentist until I discovered girls as a teenager. That damn testosterone makes you do a bunch of silly stuff. Fortunately, I have never experienced dental caries; I lucked out with some good genes in that area, my mother’s side of the family gets the credit for those genes.

    Fluoridation makes sense for a good portion of our population. I live in an area that does not fluoridate the water supply. I always vote for fluoridation when it appears on the ballot every few years. But it has never passed. If fluoride is in 70% of the nation’s water supply and it isn’t a problem. That says it is pretty safe. Fluoridation could help some kids and the risk of adverse side effects is almost nonexistent; I say it’s worth it.

  10. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    If you have a pet rat, it may be best not to give him/her/it fluoridated tap water.

    A possible relationship between fluoridated water and cancer risk has been debated for years. The debate resurfaced in 1990 when a study by the National Toxicology Program, part of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, showed an increased number of osteosarcomas (bone tumors) in male rats given water high in fluoride for 2 years (4). However, other studies in humans and in animals have not shown an association between fluoridated water and cancer (5–7).


    This contribution, from an opponent of Fluoridisation, is more disturbing:

    Fluoride, as such, is never added to the water. Only silicofluorides (a hazardous waste containing many toxic pollutants) are used to artificially fluoridate water, and studies have proven that they do not effectively prevent tooth decay, they only delay it. (See opposition's response to Question 4). Silicofluorides never occur naturally in nature, and they are 85 times more toxic than natural occurring calcium fluoride. Therefore, the effect on the entire body will be different.

    Why don't they add naturally occurring Calcium Fluoride (Fluorspar) instead of this silico stuff?
    The mineral Fluorspar is abundant, widespread, and mainly of interest as a precursor to HF. (wiki)

    This is what they add:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    It isn't a fluoride anion at all. It is totally different. It's a hexafluorosilicate anion (SiF62−)
    Apart from the Silicon having bonds with Fluorine, with a charge of -2 rather than -1, every reaction would be different.

    What they have done is stupid.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  11. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Fluoridation clearly has benefits in reducing the incidence of tooth decay. Just compare areas with and without fluoridation, or areas before and after fluoridation.

    What are the supposed harms of fluoridation, and have they been confirmed?
  12. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

    Did you know that the teeth of the Egyptian mummies had no decay and they never used this stuff. Why add things to water in the first place because pure water has no fluoride or any other chemical in it.
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    No, I didn't know that. I'm skeptical. Got a link?

    We add things to the water to improve health. Not many things, though.

    Most water you find around the place isn't "pure", either. Mostly it has trace amounts of various elements. And there are whole oceans full of salt.
  14. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

    Well I stand corrected on the mummies, sorry.

    Pure by not having man putting chemicals not naturally found into it and I'm referring to potable water not ocean water.
    We keep adding chemicals into the water to get rid of the bad things that contaminate it but why not just purify the water to get rid of those things?
  15. rodereve Registered Member

    I'm fine with it, I raised this concern in the chemistry forum, and it seems there is a low chance of adverse effects. But it is good to be conscious of it, I think fluoride has a more substantial affect on children/babies, that is why children's toothpaste is markedly different with less fluoride (I naively always thought they just made them different because its for kids, just like they get fruity gummy vitamin tablets lol), and since kids sometimes swallow whatever goes in their mouths its probably for the best.
  16. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Calcium Fluoride is nearly insoluble, which is why they use the silicate ion.
    0.0015 g/100 mL (18 °C)
    0.0016 g/100 mL (20 °C)

    The silicate ion is easier to dissolve, and as far as I can see breaks down into harmless products in water.
    (unless you want to make the argument that the fluoride ion is harmful)

    In water, the compound readily dissociates to sodium ions and hexafluorosilicate ions. At the pH of drinking water (6.5-8.5) and at the concentration usually used for fluoridation (1 mg fluoride/L), essentially 100% of sodium hexafluorosilicate dissociates to fluoride ions and hydrated silica (Crosby, 1969; Urbansky and Schock, 2000).

    No-one has yet put forward the case against fluoridation.
    I would like to hear it.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  17. andy1033 Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

    Yep its mass medication. Like the saying goes, the only way to make a perfect world, is to destroy everyone.

    Its just the way it is, to make an integrated society they need to get everyone to be virtually the same. Destroying everyone to some kind of level that everyone is at is the only way to make that society.

    All people are not born equal, but its the govs job to make them so, like the saying goes.
  18. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Every time you show up I expect to see some crank comments - and you never fail to deliver.
  19. andy1033 Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

    Whats wrong with what i wrote. If the nazis used flouride in the camps to make people accept there conditions, isn't also possible its the main reason today that society is doing this to the public.

    Anyone whom has ever gone to school knows everyone is not equal in intelligence. But to make the perfect world, they need to make sure everyone is as stupid as one another. Give people rubbish info, and teach the all wrong, and you would have a stupid population, of equal stupidity.

    To make a socialist nwo, or one world gov, you need everyone the same, and that means how they view the world, and there level of understanding.
  20. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Just more of your stupid crank garbage! Show us some proof of your claim about the Nazis - or go away and never return. Time to put up or shut up!!
  21. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    The point is, that things which are beneficial in small amounts,
    may be poisonous in larger amounts, and deadly in high amounts.
    Ordinary table salt for example.
    Someone arguing against fluoridation needs to prove that either:
    1. Hexafluorosilicate does not completely break down.
    2. That the Fluoride anion is itself dangerous for some reason, despite causing no harm in areas naturally high in the substance.

    If Hitler used it for evil purposes, it was probably in poisonous amounts.
  22. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

    Here's a question, how do they know what kind of problems might occur to humans over say 50 years of using this "treatment"? Since no long term control was ever made of fluoride then who's going to determine the risks , if any?

    Then what about the pollution of the water that you pee away or drains away while showering, it contains fluoride which is many times treated and put back into our water supply. How does this build up, if so, over time in our environment?
  23. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    The more I read about this, the more undecided I get.

    This article
    gives information about supposed problems with Fluoride

    1. Hexafluorosilicate's reaction with Alumininium, giving rise to toxic Aluminium Fluoride.
    2. Heavy metals in the impure material added
    3. Fluorine substituting in the human body for Iodine
    4. Fluoride causing its own problems with teeth and bones

    Worth a read if you want to know the "anti-" point of view.
    If you've read it, do you think it is nonsense?

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