Floods

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by timojin, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. Hipparchia Registered Senior Member

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    475
    There are also these:
    Has the Garden of Eden been located at last?
    Early State Formation in Southern Mesopotamia: Sea Levels, Shorelines, and Climate Change
    Shoreline reconstructions for the Persian Gulf since the Last Glacial Maximum

    Note that none of this relates to a sudden breakthrough at the Straits of Hormuz. In fact the data would suggest, based on water depth in the straits, that this is not a plausible possibility. However, they are supportive of flooding of the floor of the Gulf as a consequence of post-glacial sea level rise and its consequent impact on humans in the area.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    This is very interesting indeed, but you have omitted to cite the source. Where is it from?
     
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  5. Hipparchia Registered Senior Member

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    I've given you a direct link. Just hit the words "Try this". (The clue was in the words "try this"

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    Edit: I just double checked and the link works for me.
    Edit 2: It's annoying that the forum software doesn't underline, or colourise links, so they are visible even when a mouse isn't over them.
    Edit 3: I see that links are colourised. They are a lighter grey than regular text. Not at all obvious.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
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  7. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, we have those bits of information but did the Bible writers have them? It's interesting to look at real flood events in the past but there's no need to tie them in with the Biblical Flood.
     
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Aha thanks, indeed I could not see that there was a link there.

    I've now read it. From what they say, the sea could have advanced at a rate of 1km/yr, i.e. 3 metres per day, for prolonged periods. Certainly it would have pushed all the people living along the banks of the Ice Age Tigris, Euphrates, or Shatt-al- Arab, whichever it then was, Northwest into Mesopotamia. And this would have happened between 12,000 and 6,000 years ago, so definitely within the scope of folk memory.
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    No need, of course, but real floods that might have entered the folk memory of people who experienced them could have been responsible for later flood myths, could they not? As to whether these hypotheses could be testable, I suppose there might be further writings discovered, or submarine evidence of habitation on the floor of the Persian Gulf, or something. But they can only be hypotheses for the present, I accept.
     
  10. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    In reality the audience knew about floods and boats. In the story they didn't. As far as I know, the only mention of rain before the Flood is in genesis 2:5 where God had not caused it to rain yet. As far as the story is concerned, God invented rain for the purpose of the Flood. Notice that rainbows were not invented until after the Flood, as a sign that rain will end.
     
  11. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    If you see a flood only once in your life it's extraordinary even if it is seasonal to the resident.

    The people in the biblical story didn't know how to build large boats, not with dimensions given. Nobody did at that time.
     
  12. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Of course, but there's no reason to think that those folk memories came from a Black Sea flood or a Strait of Hormuz Flood. There are, after all, flood myths all over the world; we acknowledge that most of them are based on local floods, so why is "our" flood special?
     
  13. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    Godddiditism.
     
  14. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    God did all of them - just not the same god.

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  15. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    Nice gods don't kill everything.
     
  16. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    There aren't many nice gods.
     
  17. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    You don't know any cats?
     
  18. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know many "nice" cats. That is a pretty good analogy, actually: they're ruthless killers, they're capricious, etc. and yet we love them. It just goes to show how perverse humans are.
     
  19. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    They're predators, they are good at that. And their logic doesn't necessarily coincide with ours. I've seen studies that suggest cats moved into human habitats long before they could have been considered "domesticated". They wanted the vermin that was attracted to our food stores and we were happy to let them have it.
     
  20. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    "Your" flood? I'm not suggesting any flood is special. It's simply intriguing to see that there were events in several parts of the world that could have made sufficient impact to be handed on in folk memory.

    If your point is that there are independent flood myths in many cultures where there definitely were no phenomena associated with the last Ice Age, then maybe that is the case. Do we know that? I must say I begin to wonder if there may be flood myths due to Ice Age events in many cultures. Although, to be honest, I'm more interested in the geology and morphology of the events than in any putative effects on human culture.

    P.S. From the silly exchange subsequent to this post 129 of yours, I continue to have the feeling that some people are determined to find a flimsy pretext to divert this thread into bashing religion. That is a pity, as there has been some good science in it.
     
  21. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    I think you're looking at it backwards. We do know that there are flood myths in most cultures and there are floods in most cultures. We don't know that any flood myths are based on Ice Age events.
     
  22. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    That's fair enough I suppose. We don't have anything in the Epic of Gilgamesh that unequivocally points to a geographical area or an identifiable phenomenon. So it's just interesting speculation, no more than that. But the rate of flooding of the Persian Gulf does seem to have been remarkably dramatic, anyway, which is a useful titbit to file away.

    I'll still like to resolve the issue of how the Straits of Hormuz got their shape. I wonder if it is possible that the combined rivers cut through to the lowered sea level at that point, or whether it is just some effect of the Al Hajar mountain range impinging on the Asian plate. There seems remarkably little about this on line.
     
  23. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    Can we weed out the non-flood thread ideas? Interesting material enough to make their own turf. I've been through the Straits and it's rather claustrophobic for a carrier battle group.
     

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