Flat, finite cosmology

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Caleb, Jun 25, 2001.

  1. Rambler Senior Member Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    509
    Caleb,

    Ok, I understand what you are trying to say...just so we're on the same page I'll quote your last post that is relevant to your point:

    "What it does show is that the entire universe does not have to be X-billion years old just because we see light from galaxies that are supposedly X-billion lightyears away. Instead, it is possible that this time dialation would have slowed time in the vicinity of earth, allowing only Y-thousand of years to occur while the starlight traveled at c to our present location. "

    Agread the universe is x years old, and light has traveled at c to it's present location. Can you see that because time dilation is a factor.... c can not be constant (time and space are not mutually exclusive)...in other words time dilation would effect the speed of light and at the end of the journey the light would still have traveled x lightyears.

    ....I think....Cris help me out....long night of server re-builds.....
     
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  3. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Rambler,

    OK, but I was trying to stay away from that gibberish.

    I'll get back soon.

    Cris
     
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  5. Rambler Senior Member Registered Senior Member

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    509
    Ok...

    I've tried to think of a less confusing way of putting it but at this stage I'm so tired I can hardly type so.....It feel free to keep ignoring it

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    CYA, I'm off to catch some Z's
     
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  7. Caleb Redeemed Registered Senior Member

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    Well, fine. I'll talk a little about the age of the Earth, if I must. Not all chronometers give ages that agree with the Evolutioist's age. There are other ways of dating the Earth that show that it is not as old as is claimed. These aren't publicized because they disagree with current evolutionary dogma. For instance, how often do you hear about dating the Earth by the accumulation of sea-floor sediments, or the salinity of the sea, or the size of river deltas, or the number/size of oil fields, or the helium content in the atmosphere, or the decay of the Earth's magnetic feild, or the escape-rate of the Moon? Not very often, right? That's because all of these methods give dates significantly less than current theory. (I won't claim that they all give 6-8,000 yrs as the date either, but they do put a limiting constraint on the maximum age)

    The fact is, no "dating method" can prove any date. This is because they all start out with certain assumptions, such as the initial conditions of a system, the constancy of the rate of change, the lack of contamination of the system, and the acuracy of current scientific models to describe the system and measure its current state.

    Perhaps one of the best of these is radioactive dating, bacause it would seem that the rate of change is constant (unike sediment deposition where floods can upset the whole acculation rate. Another good example of a constant-rate chronometer that is hard to tamper with is the Moon's orbital escape, because gravity is so well known, and this gives a date of thosands of years, not hundreds). Anyway, recent experiments have shown that under certain conditions, rocks can decay at over a billion times their normal speed, resulting in old ages. The dating method also maintains that no daughter element is within the rock when it is first formed, but recent discoveries seem to discredit this. Besides, look at the track record. When measuring rocks of known age (be they decade-old lava flows from Mt. St. Helens, or century-old flows from Hawaii) the methods give dates in the millions of years range. If it can't work on something we know, how are we supposed to trust it to work on something we don't know.

    Furthermore, the methods are inconsistant with each other. Recently, dinosaur bones with intact marrow were found. There was nothing odd about where the bone was found (as in which rock layer -- ie it should be as old as any other dinosaur) Since some of the organic material remained, they could do a Carbon dating on the bone, which turned out to be a lot smaller than anything that would be from the Mesozoic.

    ~Caleb

    P.S. - Thanks, gregorx, for saying it sounded interesting.
     
  8. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    9,199
    Caleb,

    That gives very little credibility to your argument unless you can show published papers and articles of proven worth and value that have been written by this person. And why keep his/her identity secret. If you have confidence in this scientist then please reveal their identity and references.

    As Rambler has already noted time is relative. Einstein’s theories destroyed the earlier notions of absolute time. But it would indeed be possible for someone traveling at a given vector and velocity to perceive the creation of earth taking place in 6000 years, but it would be their years relative to their frame of reference. It would make no difference whether there was a ‘time dilation’ or not. Alternatively someone on the event horizon of a black hole would appear to us to be stationery, while we would appear to them to be moving at lightning speeds, perhaps even to the point where the earth was created in a few seconds.

    The only way you can argue that something took a ‘real’ period of time is to show that there is an absolute yardstick against which all other times can be measured, and that simply does not exist. If time was slow or faster for us at different times then that could only have been perceived from someone in a different frame of reference. But from an observer on earth 4500 million years would have passed.

    Cris
     

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