First Doses of H1N1 flu vaccine shipping

Nope. Sorry. You're required to earn that trust through proof.

That may be the case, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. In this case, I'm just using Occam's Razor: The simplest answer is the truth. People are dying from this illness, the government feels pressure to act. Not everything is a conspiracy. Not every issue has some Machiavellian agenda.

So, now you're supposing what I do and do not know. How do you know I'm not part of this "conspiracy"? Maybe I work for the government!

But really. I do know what the motivation is: people die, people get upset. When people get upset they vote officials out of office. Officials in office apply pressure to those corporations and agencies to "do something about it." Simple. No conspiracy theory needed.

Now you're just babbling. Obviously money is important. Why not just tell me how necessary oxygen is and claim that that is a conspiracy! Money, Endlight, has ALWAYS been more important to those in power than human life.

I'm obviously aware of this fact as evidence by these two posts: here and here

When you have something new to tell, let us know.

~String

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

It did say that the claims were un-confirmed and not peer reviewed. That's generally a very bad thing for the claim makers.

~String

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

What is the alternative? Letting it run it's course? What hidden agenda would you be accusing public health officials of carrying out if they were too slow to react to what turned out to be a deadly strain of flu? When doing too little too late could potentially result in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths? And the flu vaccines are not untested.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

I agree. What about the extraordinary claim this particular strain will be worse then any other before it? Wheres the proof for that? Certainly not in the year 1976 when this same tactic was tried already.

Haha, in a very real way, you are working for the government, free promotion for them.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Except when they start creating enough doses for 2/3 of the population, something which has never been done before, to combat a strain of virus which is no more deadly than any other.

Well I have a better idea of where you are coming from when you equate something purely materialistic, like money, to something necessary to life, like oxygen. And apparently you devalue human life as much as anyone else in the top 5%.

The only thing I would accuse them of then is laziness, maybe lack of organization. Im not saying nothing should be done, Im just saying the sheer magnitude of this particular operation should raise a few eyebrows including yours. And I mean come on, a "live virus" vaccine? Ha!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

well lets see, its a compleatly new strain rather than a variation of a previous strain and it happens to have the same coding as the most deadly pandemics which suggests there is something about a H1N1 combination which makes it more deadly. Further more during both the initial outbreak and the pandemic not all deaths came from what are typically the vulnerable groups but rather young healthy adults which suggests it at least has the potentual to cause a cytocind storm. Further more there is the fact that there is a currently circulating disease with a very high mortality rate that only needs the ability to cross person to person in order to become a major threat and the H1N1 virus if alowed to cirulate unhindered (because of the fact that only the very elderly have any residual immunity to it) could give Avian flu the means. All that senario requires is one person with H1N1 to get Avian Flu at the same time

Rember the last disease outbreak which came from a compleatly new strain crossed world wide and had a 50% mortality rate (ie SARS)

 

What basis do you have for questioning the effectiveness or safety of a live virus vaccine?

The sheer magnitude of the operation is completely justified by the uncertainty present when dealing with infectious disease. Vaccination is the best tool in our public health arsenal for dealing with influenza. It's effectiveness is limited by the fact that you have to be vaccinated prior to being infected. With the lead times involved, they have no choice but to act on the information they have. The ghost of 1918, where a mild flu season in the spring turned into a deadly one in the fall, looms large in the minds of doctors and epidemiologists everywhere. With a flu of that nature, little more could be done now once it was widespread than was done in 1918. The few anti viral drugs we do have are of limited effectiveness, and even shorter supply.

This all reminds me of people who live in a coastal community on the gulf coast refusing to evacuate in the face of an incoming hurricane. "The last two times they said one would hit here, nothing happened. So I don't think anything will happen this time either." Famous last words.

 

Completely new eh? Proof please.

That is scary, proof please.

Proof.

And the media does not count as proof.

 

Because to me a vaccine that comes with a risk of spreading infection makes as much sense as depression pills that come with a risk of suicide. Maybe I am crazy afterall. :shrug:

 

The risk of infection from a live virus vaccine is negligible, unless you have a compromised immune system, in which case you shouldn't receive such a vaccine. If you are healthy, any risk associated with such a vaccine is much, much smaller than the health risks associated with being infected by the disease you are being vaccinated against. Worrying excessively about the risk of the vaccine, while downplaying the risk of the flu is known as non-discriminatory risk assessment.

 

What promotion? My statement that vaccines work? They save lives? That doctors, on the whole, agree. Let me put it this way, when I need a house built, I look to an architect. When I need my car fixed, I talk to a mechanic. When there's something wrong with my health, I go to my doctor. I know him well, and have known him for years. What motivation would he have for pushing an H1N1 vaccine on himself, his family and friends?

And what cause would there be for me to take the rantings of--usually--poorly educated conspiracy theorists over the PhD, Oxford educated doctor who I have known for years?

Supply and demand. They know that roughly 1/3 of the population just won't get the vaccine.

Well, Endlight, you should learn to be more objective, learn to read and learn to comprehend. I did not "equate" anything with oxygen. I used an analogy. It's a standard rhetorical mechanism that does not in anyway equate one object with another. Faux upset over analogies are standard fare in those with little substance to their argument.

Simple answer: people were demanding it. Government fears an upset power-base.

Wait? Were we to take the "Rollyeyes" as proof? So, when you close an argument with a snide statement, what does that prove?

"Live" viruses are standard in nasal vaccines. But if you understood the process you'd know that. A weakened virus is needed when nasal vaccines are used in order to enter past the mucus membranes. If the "live" factor makes you squeamish, then get a dead virus vaccine through injection. It's what I'm doing.

~String

 

Well give me the money and I'll go get it. I asked my doctor if it was worth splurging on and that's the response she gave me. I'm not high risk so she said there was no need to push it. Since she didn't and I'm adjusting to a severe cut in income, I don't have the cash for something I most likely won't get.

 

We won't be getting any of these flu shots. I stopped getting them a few yrs ago for myself and the kids. We have been less sick in the yrs we didn't receive the shots then when we did get them. The kids get colds here and there but not the flu. They actually got the flu and so did I in the yrs we had the shots.

As time went on and I heard more and more controversy over them, I decided we were just going to stop and see what happened. So far it proved to be a good thing rather then bad.

It's free in Canada, you can go to your Dr or the walk in clinics hold flu shot dates where you just walk in and get it. I am curious, how much does it cost to get where you are?

 

i was going to say the same as shorty. In Australia some vacines have a pt cost and some dont. For instance the Hep A+B vacine will cost me $50 when i get it. The H1N1 vaccine on the other hand is free to everyone, the goverment bought enough doses to cover the entire population and any thats left over will be going to the south asian islands which need it once Australia is covered.

I mean for christ sake, are you conspiracy nuts stupid? The VERY first people to recive the vacine were the health care workers. You think they would accept it if they didnt think it was safe????????

 

They don't know the effects of all this immunization in the long term (20+ years we gonna see more super flu bugs that our immune systems can't take on every time?).

How in the fuck did we survive for 100000+ years without the flu shot?

It's a useless yearly scam to fill some pockets.

And they are rushing this swine flu vaccine without proper testing imo.

 

Well, we certainly know the effects of the flu now.

Lots of people died. Just as lots of people died from bacterial diseases prior to the discovery of antibiotics. The use of antibiotics leads to the natural selection of resistant strains of bacteria. This is a proven fact, not baseless speculation as the same sort of thinking would be with viruses. Will you now eschew the use of antibiotics?

It's the same vaccine as last years (and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that), but with a different viral protein.

Influenza is a serious illness. It kills some, and makes many others very ill. It is the job of public health officials to prevent this to the best of their abilities. It is not a scam.

 

You are comparing treating infections which can kill 100% condition athletes to treating a case of shits and pukes for 24 hrs that 99% of people have no real issue with. It's not a serious illness. When you are 94 ok go get the flu shot ...when you a sickly kid go ahead....not everyone. Let the usual %1 weak selection prone to complications get the shot, I got not problem with that. Getting "everyone" immunized every year is going to be a big problem someday.

Also they hand out antibiotics wayyy to quickly nowadays for similar monetary reasons, don't get me started on that shit...

 

*Ehem* How many people died from the Swine flu just in the USA so far? And how many people died from the normal flu so far, just in the USA?

And actually, conspiracy theories about the pharmaceutical industry are very entertaining, and interesting.

Ever heard of the *cough* interesting -err conpiracy *cough* theory about HIV having been transferred iatrogenically, i.e. via polio vaccination (Chat)? (If we grow our vaccines on primates' kidneys...I mean the general accepted theory about HIV's origins is that it's a descendant of a Simian immunodeficiency virus..) *cough*

Me likey likey.

 

Getting the flue shot dont make you any healthier it is the Governamnets way of tracking people. Allong with the so called Vaccine they inject radio active material and they use that material to track you from space. Now there is a theroy.....

 

It's going to be free if you're insured by a major insurance company because at least the state government is pushing that, but... I don't have a major health insurance provider, so I have to pay. They don't know how much yet. But if it's more than $5, (which all I can spare on this) I won't be getting it. It's free for everyone at the health clinic, but then you have to spend hours at the health clinic, where you walk out with more diseases than you came in with (I used to work there, it's terrible). And now that I don't work with children/infants anymore, I'm not required to get it.

 

"We" as as species did. We also survived without running water and electricity. We also survived for thousands of years of child abuse, misogyny and imposed slavery. That we survived at all is wonderful, but the fact is: Millions of people who now live, would not have, were it not for vaccines. You may well be one of them.

The point isn't about looking at the species as a whole, because if we did things for just cold, calculating reasons, we'd do a lot of nasty things to ourselves. The point is to look at the individual human effect of vaccinations, the effects of which have been studied for the 60-or-so years humans have been getting them en masse with little proof of serious social and individual complications. The net result has always been: Better life, longer life.

Just ask the millions of Baby Boomers who were never touched by Polio through which their very own parents suffered desperately either by direct affliction or through observation.

H1N1 is a flu variant. Every year hundreds of flu vaccines are rushed into production because nobody knows, until a few months before the "cold season" which flu virus will be needed. Companies and governments produce many of them and then they are narrowed down to a select few. The H1N1 virus is nearly identical to all other flu viruses. The only reason it's "more deadly" is because of a slightly different protein coating that surrounds it. This protein coating shifts in all flu viruses from year to year. In the case of H1N1 it shifted in such a way that some people had less resistance to. It didn't grow claws. It didn't grow eyes. It didn't "learn" to kill better. It is doing what it's always doing, merely with a different set of clothes. In this case, the clothing is just different enough to allow it to slip past certain parts of the immune system more easily. That's why some people, and not others, die from it so quickly.

"Testing" and "retesting" is stupid. It's the exact same type of virus as any other strain and the same virus that's been giving people the sniffles for millions of years. Nothing more needs to be done because all they have to do is kill some of the virus, dilute it in a saline solution and inject it into your body so that your immune system and sensitize itself to the protein coating and produce an affective anti-body.

Every day, trillions upon trillions of viruses enter your body. Your body adjusts by producing trillions upon trillions of new and repeated antibodies. Being vaccinated is just another way of producing antibodies. Claiming that vaccines might have an odd effect is indicative of someone who has zero clue of how the immune system works in relation to viruses. You will develop antibodies to all of these diseases eventually--no matter what--it's just that in many cases you won't develop them unharmed by the disease or you may actually die in the process. Vaccines allow you to do what your body already wants to do, but it does it without giving you the actual infection. Nothing more. Nothing nefarious.

In one case, we don't vaccinate and people die and get maimed. In other cases, we vaccinate and run the infinitesimal risk that some people might have some odd side effects. I'll take the second option. If you prefer the first, then I suggest testing out how it feels to have Polio. You'd quickly regret having never chosen the second option from the beginning.

Based upon what? A random guess? A hunch? I get that you believe that, but on some level that opinion has to be based on something you've learned, somewhere! How is it going to be a big problem? How is giving people immunities to diseases going to create issues down the line? It's not like the disease knows people are immune to it, and it's not like being immune to diseases causes them to mutate just to piss off people with immunities.

So, how pray tell will it be a "big problem" one day?

Unrelated.

Vaccines are for viruses. Antibiotics treat bacterial, fungal, microbial infections. The two are unconnected, so why bring it up, except to somehow validate your claims about vaccines. While you are right, over-treatment with antibiotics does cause problems, it is impossible--scientifically--to link the treatment of a disease caused by one life-form to the treatment of a dieseas from a totally different life-form. In one case, you have a chemical compound (antibiotics) which are used to kill off a type of disease AFTER infection; and on the other, you have actual dead or weakened viruses which are used to teach the body to produce protein antibodies (which stick to the viruses protein coating) on its own before an infection ever happens.

~String